This is my wilderness pack

[Bunta Fujiwara]

http://lighterpack.com/r/892443

Here is my early list for 30-45 days long trip,ideally no resuplly.
As you can see my baseweight is already 6.8 kg ,and i have many thinks to add.I think maybe i can get around 25 lbs,we ll see.

I am already thinking of changes:

1.The shoes obviusly,i already made thread
2.Taking no waterproof trousers.Good idea?
3.Taking only one sport pant
4.Getting a new soft paper version of SAS handbook that will weight less.
5.Getting a head LED light and selling my bicycle light.
6.I will decide on backpack after i have most of my gear

[Link .]

It would be difficult to give advice when you don't tell us where you are going, what the time of year kind of weather you are expecting , THIS might help.

[Bunta Fujiwara]

Ok,here we go again:

1.solo self-contained 35-45 days trip/living off land
2.Starting Greece mid/late summer going North
3.Weather is hot at start with occassional rains.At the end a bit more chilly (40F? night)

[Link .]

I agree with Bob Gross on this one… check out Christopher McCandless and I wish you a lot of luck.

[Bunta Fujiwara]

I know about McCandless.
Comment on my list plz.

[Bob Gross]

Yes, I will comment on your gear.

You will last for about one week, ten days at most.

–B.G.–

[Bob Moulder]

Three suggestions:

1) search this site for as many gear lists and gear list discussions as you can find, and read and absorb them all

2) ruthlessly cull your current list because it is far too heavy (275 grams for a towel, and books @ 1628 grams??!!)

3) do some warm-up trips of 40, 80 and 100 km with your new, radically improved kit in order to refine it even further before your Big Trip.

There are things you need to learn and insights you need to gain that only can be acquired with actual experience on the trail.

Best of luck in your preparations.

[IVO K]

Fujiwara,

The weight of your hammock is bothersome.
I have a 12.1 ounce (343 g) hammock with full netting (removable), and it would be easy for you to obtain a similar one if you wanted to.
May be not 12 oz, but you could get very close.
Dangerbird at 1076 g is way too heavy for a backpacking trip like yours.

Two pairs of trousers is 1 pair too many.

I'd ditch 3 of the 4 books you listed. "The ultimate hang" is definitely a deadweight, as it is one-time book – you read it once (when you get into hammocking) and then can toss it – there's no knowledge in it that is necessary to re-review on a continuous basis. The SAS survival is another book that one does not need to carry around – you learn from the 1st read and toss it in the "garage sale" bin.

275 g towel is outright crazy, you need a 60 g one and be done with it.

A 78 g bottle to carry 710 mL is another dumb thing – most 1L throw-away bottles from bottled water weigh less than 25 g. Besides, if you want to use a Sawyer-mini, you will quickly learn that you need a "scoop" – a vessel to take the water from the source into your "squeeze vessel" of choice for dirty water, which I also do not see in the list (the 16-oz one that comes with the Sawyer-mini is a joke!).

What is the CRKT Kangee for? I don't see a cook kit listed at all, meaning that it does not seem you need to build fires….

Carrying 20 kg of food from get-go is a dumb approach – there are plenty of places in Greece to replenish your supplies. The Greece mountains could fit into a poststamp, the entire country could be hiked in less than 20 days in the longest direction (islands aside). Unless you are a 5-mile a day hiker….

Otherwise, I (almost) agree with Bob Gross – you will last about 3 days before bailing out. Maybe 4 if you are of the stubborn type….

[Bunta Fujiwara]

1)I will look into many lists
2)Books are killing me,but i dont see what i can do,maybe drop the wildflowers book and save some pictures of it on my phone.The SAS like i said,maybe a ligther version is possible.
3)Well not much time,since my gear is half missing but will try.

[Bunta Fujiwara]

@IVO Kossev

Yes,maybe i misjudged my hammock choice but at least i will have netting and overcover which means my quilt can be really light.
Indeed i could drop the Ultimate Hang,after i learn everything.

The SAS is not one read.Too much info that are always usefull.I wont consider dropping it.(unless i become Les Stroud suddenly)

The towel thing,you re right.Maybe i will go without one at all,just some wipes.Not many days after all.

So only one trouser?Hmmm,they dont protect against cold too much.Maybe if i had baselayer leggins.

I think the bottles are okay,they are durable,taste free,and squeeze to use.Maybe i will take only one.

CRKT kangee is the tomahawk.

Cookit is not purchased yet,still thinking wether to get a small wood stove,or not.

thx for your input.

[Justin Baker]

Get a kindle. I have gotten really into plant/tree taxonomy and edible plants. My solution is unlimited books on a kindle.

Too be honest, that looks like a TERRIBLE tomohawk. It's one of those tactical things. They are really impractical. But you really don't need a tomahawk unless you are winter camping and need it to split dry kindling for campfires.

You can save weight by getting a different firesteel. The light my fires are good and light.

Your headlamp is super heavy, you can find headlamps that are a couple of ounces.

on pants:

For the weather you are talking about you want some very thin nylon pants for hiking, don't worry if they get wet. Have some dry base layer bottoms to change into when you set up camp to sleep.
Those rain pants are really heavy anyways.

The fleece is good, you might want to add a down jacket for colder weather.

[Link .]

What backpack are you carrying ? 12 rolls of toilet paper ? Will you be on a trail or off trail ? Do you have a map and compass ? A first aid kit ? Are you experienced with a map and compass or off trail travel ?

[Bunta Fujiwara]

@justin

Kindle will run out of battery soon,dont want to spend money on electronics.But maybe its worth looking into.

Well,i still want T-hawk.Gotta have some protection,this is wilderness we talking.

About firestarter:I will remove the wistle,get a lighter flint or use my knife for flint.

Yes,i will get a headlamp probably.
Yes,i think i will have to drop the water pants.

Actually,i will add one more fleece for back-up(which is quite lofty with good warmth).
And also add my waterproof jacket,which acts as windblocker,2 pockets,and a bit insulation.

@Link
"What backpack are you carrying ? 12 rolls of toilet paper ? Will you be on a trail or off trail ? Do you have a map and compass ? A first aid kit ? Are you experienced with a map and compass or off trail travel ?"

Have not decided for backpack yet.I think sth like Golite Quest 65 L or Osprey Kestrel 66 will be enough.
Compass,first add kit will be added.Not sure i can make great use of maps,but will have some.

[Link .]

Will you be on a trail or off trail ?

[Justin Baker]

If you are going to haul around a tomohawk, at least carry something good like this and not that steel handle tactical piece of crap http://www.coldsteel.com/Product/90TH/TRAIL_HAWK.aspx

There is nothing dangerous about wilderness, especially not in your part of the world. You are in more danger walking around town.

[Bob Moulder]

Hi, Bunta:

This a huge undertaking for somebody who appears to have very little, if any, experience in the outdoors. The kinds of questions you are asking tell us this.

If it is at all possible, delay your big trip until next year and use this time for acquiring your kit, doing a lot of short trips in all kinds of weather, gaining experience and refining your kit and your technique.

It might seem like a rather simple process to gather the right "stuff", load it all into a pack and walk, but there is a lot more to it than that, things that you cannot begin to comprehend until you actually get out and do it a few times.

It is never a good idea to rush into a new activity in such a huge way, especially one such as this where your physical well-being might be in some risk. At first, short trips with an easy retreat are highly advised.

[Justin Baker]

+1 to everything Bob said.

[Derek M.]

+1000 to what Bob Moulder said

Bunta,
It might be easy to be feeling a little attacked right now by all the commenters, like you have a dream for a trip and everyone is trying to tell you you can't do it. I get it.

But just remember that almost everyone on here is trying to give you wise council. If it's tough to hear, then it's probably because you might really be having unrealistic expectations and are not yet ready to come to terms with that. Coming down to earth is never fun. We've all been there.

You basically have two choices: take advice from people with more experience, or learn the hard way. Both ways have their merits, but one way usually involves a lot more pain and misery. I'm sure you can guess which one.

One simple example:
Just as an objective fact, you will not be able to feasibly carry 32 days worth of food on your back. It's just not going to happen. I don't even care if the weight is possible, the bulk will not be. You will have all your other non-consumable gear in your pack as well. There will simply not be enough room for more than about 2 weeks of food (max!).

You can either learn these lessons in the comfort of your own home right now where you are safe and warm, or learn them out in the wilderness when you are not. It's your choice.

My advice would be to take all the lessons in from the more experienced backpackers on this forum and then re-plan your trip. It's probably not what you want to hear, but like everyone else, I'm trying to look out for your best interests.

[Bunta Fujiwara]

So thats it?It cant be done?

I suppose we could write up a good simulation program on the PC that calculates everything about the trail,weight,food,distance,motivation,gear,weather.
Then we will have all the answers we need,so there would be no reason to go outside at all!Wouldnt that be great? :d

So how much lbs of food would you suggest for starting pack?

[Ken Thompson]

"So how much lbs of food would you suggest for starting pack?"

How many days along proposed route will there be an opportunity to resupply? No more than 20pounds/10 days. This is where logistics comes into play.

Is there actual wilderness in Greece?

Resupply, don't try to take it all with you?

What's the legality of edged weapons in Greece?

[David Drake]

You haven't told us what distance you intend to cover on your 35-45 day hike.

IF you keep your mileage (kilometer-age?) very low (lower exertion=lower calorie requirements), AND reduce your base weight to a minimum, 30 days or so without resupply MIGHT be possible (at least on paper).

IF you can manage on 2000 Cal/day, and are supplied with low-volume, very calorie-dense food (say, average 4.6 Cal/gram [130 Cal/oz]), you'll need about 13 kilos of food for 30 days, and maybe 45-50 liters of volume (assumes no-cook, or wood fires). Keep your BW below say, 4 kilos, and your starting pack weight won't be too bad, and will be getting lighter every day. Now, a BW in that range requires some skill and experience–you might want to acquire that first, so you don't wind up hypothermic with soaked insulation and no ability to start a fire.

Of course, carrying a 18 kilo/40 pound pack and eating only 2000 Cal/day, you won't be able to go very far–I'd guess something significantly less than 10 km per day. You'll lose plenty of weight over the 30 days, and prob. be hungry all the time. Maybe an interesting experiment to try–although not a hike many would consider "hardcore" (your term from another thread, I believe). Or enjoyable.

As others have said, "living off the land" is a non-starter.

I don't know what "wilderness" in Greece consists of; I assume you'll have opportunities to bail or resupply WHEN (not if) your plans-on-paper meet reality on the ground.

[Marko Botsaris]

Bunta,

Sounds like a very interesting trip. May I ask what route you are planning on taking? For example are you just going through Greece, or do you intend to start in Greece and go north into other countries. I love the idea of walking from the south of Greece to the north – perhaps starting in Mani and then ending up in the Rhodope mountains (or go west and end up in Ioannina).

However… I see a few problems with the basic plan, as far as I can understand it from what you have written. With the exception of a few isolated places like the White Mountains in Crete, there really aren't larger wilderness areas in Greece. There is a LOT of remote territory, but almost every square inch of it is claimed by someone, if only shepherds. I would put Greece right at the top of countries where you can walk enjoyably across country if you know what you are doing. However tramping (as in camping on people's land) is not generally part of the local culture, and in many places there are laws against it. I feel like both the idea of camping anywhere you want, and especially "living off the land" will sooner or later bring you in conflict with the authorities and the locals. How will you manage that?

If I did it I would do it "Patrick Leigh Fermor" style and find a "little old lady" in the nearest village who has an extra room to rent out and could use the extra money Likewise get your food resupply in the village. Go light with no tent and some money – that is the real "living off the land" in the present context. I did this on a much smaller scale than you are planning. Away from the jaded tourist areas people will welcome you if they don't find you camping somewhere you shouldn't be, are respectful of the local customs (including enough of the Greek language to get by in remoter places), and especially the people. In lots of (or most) places this will not include camping. In many places this will be against the law. You do NOT want to get embroiled with the local authorities in any way – "byzantine" is after all a Greek word. :-)

I certainly don't think it is possible (or necessary) to carry all you food,for 45 days, but maybe you don't mean that.

Good luck. Post some pictures here when you are done.

[Daniel D]

Some time back I read where a friend/mentor of Andrew Skurka, planned to walk for around 30 days, unsupported. He carried a low calorie food load, effectively enough for half of the trip and put on excess weight to compensate. You really need to have a lot of experience to do this sort of stuff over an extended period of time.

I've got a Macpac Cascade and that's a serious load hauling pack, up to 30 kg plus but you'd want to be the incredible hulk to carry it and not walk that far each day, in my lighter weight mode, I'd need to carry about 35 kg, excluding water for thirty days and I'd be losing weight.

[Justin Baker]

Bunta, what do you have against resupplying? Just walk into a town and buy some more food. That way you wont have to carry as much weight.

[Bunta Fujiwara]

I think i might have to cut down the days even more.:(

If i manage a 9kg baseweight and carry 16 kg food/water,i would have enough food for at least 24-26 days right?
Starting pack at 25kg(55 lbs).

But look,if say i eat my food in 25 days,thats means i was carrying an average of 8kg food for 25 days,and a total of 17 kg or 37.4lbs.That does not sound so bad for 25 days right?
Its just hard as hell at first,but gets easier in an accelerating way,as i will be also getting fitter/areobic efficient.
How much calories does a man need on average per day to carry 17 kg for 19 miles/day?

BTW,how many Darn Tough socks should i get for this?I was thinking 3 pairs.

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