Need Some Feedback

[Lawrence Szopinski]

Hello all,
New to the forum and also to backpacking. Been lurking here for awhile and finally got a membership and put together a gear list to try to get some feedback. Some quick background – My wife and I became interested in backpacking late last year and now have a few trips under our belt. We acquired the best gear we could within a reasonable budget when we got started. I spent a lot of time reading reviews and posts all over the internet trying to get a basic understanding of what we should be looking for and also some specific suggestions for all of our gear.
We now have a pretty good idea of what types of trips we will be doing, and what comforts we want, etc.
Most of our trips are just one or two nights. So far only about 7 miles or so out and the same back. We are going to Havasu Falls next month and are trying to lighten up as much as we can. The hike in to the campsite is supposed to be about 12 miles.
I'm looking for some overall comments on what we already have and also suggestions for areas we could loose some weight. Also looking for ideas for food for our 3 night Havasu trip. We have some limited budget to spend in the next few weeks. So price is also a concern.

My gear list can be viewed in my forum profile. It will need to be zoomed in to read, I tried to get it to fit on one page. It is mostly complete other than clothing, food, and water.

Thanks in advance!

[Ken Thompson]

I'd take a hard look at your stove and kitchen set up. A basic canister stove and less cookware could save you both weight and space.
And are you both packing moras?

Just go out and have a good time.

[Lawrence Szopinski]

Thanks Ken
I was thinking the stove would be a great first step. We bought the Dragonfly with grand ideas of creating gourmet dinners and so far all we've done with it is boil water.
We both carry Moras. Not sure how I feel about not carrying some sort of significant blade each.
Thanks for the input!

[Jay Vance]

If you're on a tight budget and want to stick with a gas stove, this little guy is phenomenal:

http://www.amazon.com/Ultralight-Backpacking-Canister-Ignition-silvery/dp/B00ENDRORM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1397099938&sr=8-1&keywords=backpacking+stove

For ~4oz and $7.00, it's a total steal. A stove is a very simple piece of equipment, so it's not something you need to spend a lot on.

[Joe Lynch]

I'm really happy with this stove. Would have bought the pot if I didn't already have one.

http://www.amazon.com/Olicamp-Xcelerator-Titanium-Stove-Combo/dp/B007S3MRU8/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1397111955&sr=8-4&keywords=olicamp+stove

You can also just get the stove. Steal the wind screen from your msr stove.

[Lawrence Szopinski]

Thanks for the suggestions on the stoves guys. I'll do some digging around – I'm sure there is a ton of stove threads to sort through. Any other thoughts?
Thanks!

[Lawrence Szopinski]

What do you all think about the SnowPeak stoves?
I'm all about cheap but don't know if I'd be comfortable depending on a $7 off brand stove.
From what I've read the Snowpeak seem to be the best cansiter stoves in terms of reliability (other than the simmering issue where the valve slowly opens up and makes simmering an issue). They seem to be much more highly regarded than sat an MSR Pocket Rocket.

[David Drake]

Hi Lawrence,
I've had a Snowpeak GS-100 for several years. Great stove. ~3.5 oz. with MYOG windscreen. A couple months ago, I picked up a Fire Maple FMS 300T here:

http://www.amazon.com/Camping-Backpacking-Compact-Lightweight-Titanium/dp/B00H7NTKPE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1397321926&sr=8-1&keywords=fms+300t

Haven't had a chance to try it in the field yet, but it's a very interesting stove. Lightest canister stove available (2 oz w/ MYOG windscreen), relatively inexpensive ($30 shipped), and Roger Caffin (one of BPL's resident stove gurus) has been enthusiastic about the design. Fire Maple is sometimes sold under the Olicamp brand, as in the stove linked by the poster above.

Also looked at the rest of your list. 16# & 14# BW aren't bad for starting out, but for the type of hikes you indicate you're doing, you could easily (and safely and comfortably) drop several pounds from that. If you get into making your own gear, it could be done pretty inexpensively as well.

I'd think about replacing your tent (there are several 2 person options available around 2#), your pads, your sleeping bags, and your wife's pack. Obviously, this is long-term planning. Lighter bags (in particular) won't be cheap, although there are some cottage gear quilts that are very reasonable for their quality, performance, and weight.

I wonder about the lack of insulation pieces on your lists (e.g., fleece or puffy). If it's cold enough evening and nights to require 20* bags, it seems like you'll need something to wear in camp after sundown.

edit: corrected Snowpeak model number.

[Lawrence Szopinski]

David,
Thanks so much for the ideas and feedback.
I'm leaning towards the Snowpeak Gigapower without the piezo igniter. Sounds like the starter isn't worth the weight (however negligible it is) and lots of reports of them crapping out after time. Might as well save a few bucks and get the manual start version. I'm also thinking that it's just about double the cost to get the titanium version which seems to only save about 1.5 or 2 oz. So, for me a reduction of about a pound or more from our current system will be huge. The extra ounce or two isn't worth almost double the price (to me, right now).
Can you point me in the direction of a link for the MYOG windscreen? Doesn't seem like it could be difficult to make, but always nice to have some experience to go off of. They want $10 for the windscreen on Amazon!

In regards to the tent: I've been trying to sway my wife to buy in to a Tarptent or similar design. So far she's pretty adamant on the free-standing design. We just picked up the REI Quarter Dome T3 for about $170 on clearance from REI Outlet, so it was hard to pass up. Relatively light (compared to the boat anchor of a Kelty Quattro 2 we were carrying before!), and again freestanding. Brought it out for it's maiden voyage last weekend and it was pretty solid. Not bad at all for a relatively cheap freestanding, kind-of lightweight design…I think the main objection to the TT designs are the fact that she can't quite visualize how the mesh portion works. I've tried to explain and show pics, but so far not bought in yet. If I could find someone that has one locally to show her in person I think I could close her on it.

The bags are another definite consideration. We got the Kelty Cosmic down 20* after researching and reading a lot of reviews on the value. When we bought all this stuff (most of it anyway) we were trying to find one piece that would serve all seasons for us. We live in AZ and have been backpacking here so far, but will eventually want to expand our experiences to other places. I also know that stepping up to a real lightweight quality bag is quite the investment, so I think that will probably be the last piece to get swapped out. Pretty soon we will probably be able to get by with nothing more than a sheet (or similar) for a good portion of the season, as the heat in our area stays pretty much all night. That will definitely help drop the weight big time. Any suggestions on a summer sleeping system that will work in our area are greatly appreciated.

I didn't include most of our clothing on the sheet, just sleepwear and outerwear. Definitely an area to look at. We have been carrying fleeces as well as mid-layer long sleeve shirts, etc. The lowest temp we have been in so far was about 38* or so overnight. Again, it will be getting to a low of about 1,000 pretty soon, so clothing weight, sleeping bag weight, etc can definitely drop dramatically for a good part of the season.

Thanks again for the feedback.
Please let me know if there is a how-to on the MYOG windscreen. I think I'll pull the trigger on the Gigapower before our next trip.

[Marko Botsaris]

You tube as a bunch of DIY windscreen videos. I have used the snow peak gigapower stove (w/piezo, never failed in 10 years). When you use this stove you need to make a base plate (cut one out of an aluminum baking pan from the grocery store) to isolate the heat inside the wind screen from the canister – you absolutely don't want the windscreen, if it is a all tight like it should be, going around the flame AND the canister. This piece is a disk with slots for the pot bars and a hole for the burner. The you can just make a windscreen out of heavy duty Al foil. The whole thing – except the disk – will fit inside your pot folded up. Its a great little burner.

In addition to the Al foil and Al pan all you need are scissors and 10 minutes. As cheap as it is the config really concentrates the heat where it is needed as well as protecting the canister from the heat – very protected from wind, fast boils and very efficient. Just size the components of the windscreen according to the size pot you want to use. I've replace the foil part many times but the base plate is the same one I cut over a decade ago and has gone on countless trips. I guess it is now officially elevated to sentimental status from "scrap".

[Jason Mahler]

Your gear list looks very similar to what mine did when I started backpacking. A few obvious comments:

– Wife's pack is very heavy. You can easily get in the 2lb range for pretty cheap. If there is a way to take these back, I would seriously look at other options. ZPacks are great and can be cheap if you go frameless. GossamerGear also has some packs that are light and cheap. I believe the REI Flash packs are also decent.

– Sleeping bags – One gear list for all year sounds good, but it didn't work for me. What I did for my sleeping system is get a 30deg down quilt and a 50deg synthetic quilt that together weigh less than my original sleeping bag. This system gets me year round, but I don't do the sub 20deg stuff often. For summer weather, I have bought some very light fleece from Joanne Fabric, sewed the edges and just used that.

-Water Filter – These just stink. My brother had this one and had to clean the filter constantly. Going to a Sawyer squeeze or mini has been so much better for me and would save you close to a pound.

-Shoes – At those weights, it looks like you are using light hikers. I switched from these when I figured out I couldn't keep my feet dry. Now I wear nylon trail running shoes and don't worry about it because they are dry within minutes after getting wet.

-Tent – I started with the T3 as well and still have it because I love it. I don't backpack with it though because you can get a 2p tent for a little over a pound.

-Sleeping pad – you should be able to cut half of that weight for pretty cheap if you don't need an insulated pad. I think Big Agnes has some in the $50 range.

[Lawrence Szopinski]

Marko
Thanks for the tutorial on the windscreen. Makes it a lot easier now that I can visualize it.

Jason
Thanks for the thoughts and ideas.

I think that the stove and water filter will be the best weight savings to cost ratio so I'll get those ordered up this week. I'll probably go with the SP GP standard and the Sawyer mini.
I'll keep trying to away the wife from the traditional free standing tent model and get into a TT or similar. That will be huge weight savings.
I'll also work on finding a lighter pack for the wife.
Sleeping bags will probably be a while just due to the investment.

Thanks again for the thoughts and ideas. Keep them coming!

[David Drake]

Windscreens: lots of posts on that, including this article from Jerry Adams:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/myog_aluminum_windscreen.html?forum_thread_id=31119#.U0q7UdxElNY

Other designs shown in the comments.

As Marko indicated, putting a windscreen around an upright canister stove isn't risk-free. Have to be careful the canister doesn't overheat.

I did have a weird problem a couple years ago using a windscreen somewhat similar to Marko's (but with differences that were prob. significant). What happened was, operating the stove in windy and warm conditions, there was enough thermal feedback through the body of the stove to melt the plastic valve inside the canister. No explosion, but stove stopped dead. Since I was just making coffee at a rest stop on the freeway, it wasn't too big a deal. Losing a canister full of fuel on a hike would have been more problematic (let alone that the failure could have been more, um, dramatic). Thread discussing the results is here:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=65243

Looking at Marko's pics, the bottom of his screen sits quite a bit higher than mine did–it looks like his design shields all but the burner from the heat of the flame. I was using aluminum flashing rather than foil around the pot–maybe this held in more heat than foil would. My point is, a rig like this is prob. very sensitive to slight differences in design, and getting it wrong could be catastrophic.

Re: tents. IIRC, TarpTent makes some models that are freestanding–if you don't mind my asking, why is this a feature your wife insists on? My wife and I just got an SMD Haven with net inner. Not freestanding but very easy to set up–no guy lines beyond the tent perimeter necessary. Fully enclosed (her requirement). Two doors, two vestibules. Here it is being tested in our back yard:

[Lawrence Szopinski]

David
Thanks again for the thoughts. Interesting and somewhat concerning point regarding the windscreen. I'll have to make sure I get it right if I make my own. Don't want a ticking time bomb for sure.

In regards to the tent I don't think she can wrap her was around bug and weather protection that isn't provided by the traditional dome freestanding model. She seems to think that rain will get in. I've showed her plenty of pics and tried to explain it to her but she can't quit visualize it without seeing one hands on I guess.
Still working on that.
How do you like the SMD? Have you had it in the rain yet? Any issues?

In the meantime we will work on the small changes that will result in measurable weight drop like the stove system, filter, etc.

Thanks again.

[Marko Botsaris]

@David, possibly the trouble is the size of the hole for the burner as well as the height. I can confirm that this is never a problem with my setup. If you put it together you can test things by just putting your hand underneath with not too much cost to experiment.

Keep in mind that with no windshield the heat at the canister is negligible, so the only way you could make it warmer on the outside of the windscreen is if it was actively projecting heat. Since the windscreen works partly by trapping more of the heat around the pot, I suppose this could happen if that heat was getting blasted down through the hole. Also, the physical contact between the Al part and the stove need to be minimal or heat will get conducted. Recall that one trick for using a canister stove in very cold environment is to place a heat conducting copper wire to warm the canister. When cut correctly the bottom piece only touches the supports at very isolated points.

At any rate all you need to do is make the hole just big enough to shove the burner through, and with the slots cut as shown it will come to rest at just the right level. This is not the most elegant solution, and there are several fancy ones on here, but this one works as well – as long as you don't mind the extra Hobo Factor. :-) I find it helps keep the noisy yuppies from camping to close. When I used my Jetboil they think I am one of them.

[David Drake]

Haven't had it on a trip yet, let alone in the rain. Wife is recovering from ACL surgery a few weeks ago, so it will prob. be late June or July before we're hiking together. Mountains here don't melt out before then anyway.

As far as I can tell, the Haven is every bit as rain and bug proof as a dome tent–the fly can be pitched tight to the ground if necessary, and the net inner has a silnylon bathtub floor. One advantage the Haven–and similar designs–have over any dome tent I've used is the fly is pitched first, creating a dry space before the net inner is clipped in. With a bit of practice, you could pitch in wet conditions without ever exposing the inner or your other gear to rain. Of course, the net inner can be pitched alone for bug protection in dry weather, or the fly alone as a tarp with 360* protection if bugs aren't a concern.

Other setups I looked at were the MLD Duomid with Inner, TT Stratospire 1, and Lightheart Duo. All good choices, I'm sure. The Haven had a bit more room than some of the others, pitched without a pole in the center, carried as two almost equal pieces, and seemed resistant enough to wind for our purposes. That we could buy the fly and the inner separately helped spread the cost out a bit.

[M B]

many european tents pitch fly first, american mfgs are basically retards.

For the last yr the Haven has been a figment of imagination. Promises, promises. Eventually maybe SMD will deliver the revised verstion.

One thing you can count on, whatever SMD promises, will be much much later than they indicate, every time.

[David Drake]

"For the last yr the Haven has been a figment of imagination."

I see both versions of the Haven are now unavailable. FWIW, I ordered my Haven tarp 1 February 2014, and received it promptly. Glad I didn't wait, but that does mean as recently at 2.5 months ago, the (silnylon) Haven wasn't imaginary.

[M B]

Well, I was referring to the cuben haven. I recall the sil never was too popular due to a few complaints of the large flat panels sagging and touching the mesh inner, then dripping condensate there. Cuben circumvented that, and the cubens sold out quickly, never to re-appear due to work on other more important projects. They have modified it to improve the angle of the main guyouts, and have promised, but not yet delivered it. It was on my short list of 2P shelters at one time, but I pretty much gave up hope.

[Lawrence Szopinski]

So…with your help I was finally able to convince the wife to stray from the traditional freestanding dome tent.
Luckily we have about a week left on the return policy for the REI Quarter Dome T3 we just picked up.

I'm pretty set on the TT Stratospire 2. Of course, this is the only 2 person model on the TT website that is currently out of stock. Just shot them an email to see what the ETA is. We have about a month till our next trip, but only about a week to return the tent we just got.

Thanks for the help. By sharing your experiences with the tents and by showing her a few Youtube videos she was sold.

We will also be changing out the stove and probably the water filtration. Thinking the SP Gigapower standard and Sawyer minis.

Thanks again!

[Nathan Wernette]

did you not like the quarter dome t3? My wife and I just bought it and spend a few nights out in it. Good ventilation and not too heavy for the price (compared to the big agnes tents)

nathan

[Lawrence Szopinski]

I actually do like the quarter dome quite a bit. We got the T3 thinking we would be able to fit our packs in it but can't quite squeeze them in. We have decided using vestibules for our gear is fine and are looking to reduce some weight by going with a 2 person tent. While we are at it we are diving in to the world of non-freestanding traditional models of tents.
Also looking to reduce volume – the T3 with the rain fly, poles, etc is actually pretty large. I'm sure it can be compacted more than we have but definitely not to the size and weight of the Tarptent or similar designs.

Nothing wrong with the QD. We're actually thinking about keeping it.

[Nathan Wernette]

try the QD2?

the REI dash was just released, eh..

A guy on the classifieds is selling a NWT MSR fast stash.

[Lawrence Szopinski]

I'm pretty sold on the TT Stratospire 2. I like the obvious weight savings, plus we are about to start using trekking poles so we will be able to bypass carrying tent poles in favor of something the serves double duty.
I also like the extended views that you can get with the TT. Via the vestibules. They open up a lot ore that the QD vestibules.
Just need to see if they will have one for me when I need it.

Anyone have suggestions to talk me out of the TT Strat 2?

[Michael Gartman]

I just ordered one for me and my wife as well. Agonized between it and the Six Moon Designs Lunar Duo. I actually got to see one in person a couple of months back, and the tent is pretty roomy, plus huge vestibules for gear.

If your wife insists on free standing,I do believe the Double Rainbow Tarptent can be free standing, not sure. The problem is, it's a very tight fit for two.

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