Do you carry a backup fire starter? What and Why or Why Not?

[Richard Cullip]

Not me. I spend my backpacking trips above 10,000ft in the High Sierra whenever possible and carry two means of lighting my stove (matches and mini bic lighter). Haven't had the need nor opportunity for a fire while backpacking in over 30 years. When car camping I try my best to start our campfires with only one match to keep my fire starting skill up just in case.

[J-L]

I don't know – I think these fire starting items give people a false sense of security.

If you're out there solo, and all the wood is wet, and your gear is wet, and it's raining, and you are actually on the edge of hypothermia, would you actually be able to get a fire started quickly enough to do you any good? I do sometimes practice getting a fire going when it's wet but it isn't something I would want to rely on.

[Bob Gross]

John, that is exactly the point. In some environments, if you are on the edge of hypothermia, the speed with which you can make a fire might be critically important for survival. If it is only a little cold and wet, then you might want that fire to heat water for drinking, but if it is big time cold and wet, you probably need the fire for drying out clothing as well. Sure, 99% of the time we won't need anything quite that critical, but if you really need it, you have it.

–B.G.–

[Justin Baker]

Building a fire when hypothermic is an issue. Not even hypothermic, if you hands get numb and you are shivering that can be too much.
That's why I try to always carry an ace in my pocket as far as fire starting. That usually means using 2-4 extra esbits. I lay them down, flick my lighter, and start grabbing random pieces of wood to throw on. It doesn't matter if the wood is soaking wet or a block of ice, you can get it going with enough firestarter. In normal, non desperate conditions I use very little or no firestater.
On long trips this tinder can be replaced with big chunks of resin or birch bark or fatwood.

Yeah I agree that relying entirely on fire for your survival is foolish. What's even more foolish is not carrying fire starting materials in challenging weather because you don't think you should rely on it. It's just one tool and skill of many to have.

It's also the most effective way to warm yourself up, provided you can get it going well. External heat is just so much more effective than insulation for warming yourself up in a desperate situation, I know this from personal experience.

Survival skills in a forest and survival skills in above the treeline/grasslands/tundra are very different. For day hikes in a forest my plan for an emergency overnight involves fire. For day hikes above the treeline or in grasslands my plan involves extra clothing and something waterproof to cover myself up. Trying to build a fire above the treeline in a storm is an exercise in futility.

I'm with travis in that I use fire for utility. It allows me to cook food, dry off wet clothes, and carry less camp clothing for the evenings. Occasionally I will intentionally carry inadequate sleeping insulation (but enough to survive) and supplement with an all night fire, but only in reliably dry weather when hiking with others.

[Travis B.]

"If you're out there solo, and all the wood is wet, and your gear is wet, and it's raining, and you are actually on the edge of hypothermia, would you actually be able to get a fire started quickly enough to do you any good?"

Good question, and I can't say I have an answer. I sure hope I would be able to, though I certainly don't want to have to find out. The lands I roam, though cold and northern, tend to be quite arid so even when it's raining there's always dry wood to be found. In a real wet climate like the PNW I imagine it'd be a different story altogether. Not to mention that in the throes of hypothermia I'm not sure I would even have the faculties to know to try and get a fire started.

That still doesn't discount the importance of fire to me. I think we have to take into account the psychological benefits of fire as well, even if it can be viewed as 'packing your fears' by some. If I were to get lost one evening as the sun was going down, the first thing I would do is find a good place to camp and start a fire. It will provide me with warmth, but it will also provide me comfort. My intellectual self might know that all I have to do is get my bearings in the morning when the light returns and I'll be on my way. But the emotional side can be pretty powerful when a person feels vulnerable. A fire calms me, allows me to collect my thoughts, and adds security. The more confident I am the better decisions I will make. It's the exact same security I get from having enough food, a sleeping bag that keeps me warm, or the map and compass skills to get me home. Just because it is a psychological advantage doesn't mean it won't contribute to success in an emergency situation.

In groups, I feel that fire has a social element that's important. With friends I've done multi-day canoe trips. When at camp the fire was the focal point of our group. It was where route planning and other trip decisions were made, where the trip was celebrated, and where conflicts of opinion were worked out. Though all of these things can occur without a fire, I believe that it had a positive impact on group cohesion on trips I've went.

Now don't get me wrong, I recognize that fire is a 'needs' based decision and it's value will be highly dependent on where you are travelling. Mountaineers can survive just fine stormed in on mountain tops for days. But I see fire as just another tool in what should be an already well-stocked tool box. If you travel in an area that the use of fire is possible, why not draw from the tool-chest and take advantage. The benefits are worth it…

[robert van putten]

I always have a backup with me!

Fire can indeed be a lifesaver! I consider the ability to make one an essential skill, and the material to do so an essential bit of kit, right up there with a good knife.

To my wife and I, fire is an essential and almost sacred part of our lives. We live up north and heat only with wood. The first person outta bed in the morning lights the fire, and we probably have one nine months out of the year.

When backpacking we love a fire to cook over, heat water for a nice towel bath over or just for warmth and cheer on a chill evening.

I just used my backup last week!
My wife and I just got back from the Grand canyon. One morning at the Bright Angel camp my wife picked up my Ronson to light our Trangia stove and it wouldn't work. It had sat on a table all night and was to cold to work, and it is an electric type so the spark alone wasn't sufficient to do the trick ( as a flint lighter would have ).
So, I dug out my backup, a new book of paper matches in a tiny zip lock bag.

Both my wife and I carry lighters and this backup book of paper matches. My wifes lighter was buried deep in her pack somewhere though, it was easier to locate my backup that morning.

Yeah sure I could have borrowed one or even bought one at the Phantom ranch canteen.
So that wasn't exactly a life saving moment, but geeze, we're talking about what, a tenth of an ounce of extra weight?

I always, even right now as I type this and not just backpacking, have a lighter, a good knife and a tiny flashlight in my pockets, and backups in my pack or car.
But then, I also have a gun on my belt. I'm a carful sorta feller! Or maybe just paranoid?

Anyway, just having a few extra matches doesn't cut the mustard in my book. If things have gone so wrong that I need a fire to survive, I'll probably not be able to light one with just a match. So, I always have a military surplus trioxiane fuel bar in the 3 oz. repair kit in my pack.

If I can fumble that out, tear that open, drop it on the ground and manage to ignite it, I reckon I'll be able to get a fire going. It burns long enough and hot enough to get wet twigs going.

Besides, I can use it to brew up tea if I run outta fuel some day.

[Tony Ronco]

Hey, come on Bob: that's what the back-up mini Bic is for! :-D

Seriously, I linked to that video to show the concept of what I make … a match & tender together. (BTW, the video is not mine, nor do I know the person who made it)
For what I make, the result is like any match – they need to be struck to ignite. But no BBQ lighter required (nor any other lighter required)

On a side note: I personally don't cut off the friction strip portion of the matchbox, but instead keep a small piece of emery board in the RX bottle along with the matches.

-T

[Glenn S]

"If you're out there solo, and all the wood is wet, and your gear is wet, and it's raining, and you are actually on the edge of hypothermia, would you actually be able to get a fire started quickly enough to do you any good? I do sometimes practice getting a fire going when it's wet but it isn't something I would want to rely on."

In a sense, this is correct. Someone who's waited until they are on the edge of hypothermia before trying to start a fire, probably isn't capable enough to get a fire going. Unless it's an immediate thing, like falling in a river, a person shouldn't wait that long. Even then, first thing to do is start a fire instead of waiting around to get hypothermic. And no, the fire isn't going to light itself, so overconfidence is a factor to some. Knowledge and skill goes a long way here. Everybody should practice this more IMO, myself included.

As far as people nay-saying the idea of holding fire as an emergency response tool. Nobody would question carrying a whistle, a signal mirror, even a Spot, yet they balk at something as critical as fire? It's not an issue of having a hot meal, it's about warmth, signaling, even boiling water in the event of a filter failure.

To me it's a no brainer. Mini bic, waterproof matches, Lightmyfire Mini, and the ol' PJCB's are standard fare. Over on that PJCB thread, I made a comment about hardly carrying the stuff anymore, since Birch bark is everywhere where I go, but I do still carry it in my emer kit.

[Brian Crain]

I carry a mini-Bic and same as Bob, a paper book of matches in a 2×2 ziplock for backup. I also have ~12 squares of charcloth in another 2×2 baggy

[Rick Sutton]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and comments. I now have a lot of new ideas to try out. In the past, I always carried my bic mini in my cookpot. While I know last year's defective bic was not wet, it could have been cold and maybe this contributed to it not working. Where were Bob & Dave when I needed them – smile. I was also unaware a few hand gel drops or alcohlol can aid in lighting an esbit tab as well.

I plan to spend some time this spring experienting with the gel and alcohol drops to help start my esbit, as well as trying out a few firesteels. Moving forward, I plan to carry a bic or two in better spots, and some backup fire starter combinations comprised of a second mini bic, matches, cotton balls, and/or firesteel.

My initial post was derived from the fact that almost every single SUL gear list I have looked over in the last few months had no secondary fire starters, rather, most only carried matches or a mini bic. Maybe this is a requirement for those trying to reach certain gear weight goals (or maybe they are taken and just not entered on gear lists – smile), however, I beleive most if not every reply to this thread stated they carry some form of a backup fire starter. I agree with this idea because for such a small weight penality, I would much rather have some options if needed. More power to those that think otherwise – HYOH.

Lastly, for those of you who carry a firesteel, do you have any suggestions? From what I can find, the Light My Fire Scout 2.0 appears to get very good reviews and weighs in at 1.0 oz.

Thanks again to everyone for contributing.

P.S. – edited for my typos.

[Rick Sutton]

Dale W. or anyone else that might know this –

Does one brand of hand sanitizer work any better than another when using a few drops of it to help light an esbit tab? I found some hand sanitizer gel my wife has in the bath and is says the active ingredient is:

Ethyl Alcohol 70%

This got me wondering if the alcohol content varied on hand sanitizer and if finding the one with the highest alcohol content will improve the result?

[Dale Wambaugh]

The Scout 2 will work fine. For that matter, the mini will work fine too. The fatter ones will last longer if you are using them on a regular basis. I carry a small one as I reserve it for use when my lighter and a matches have failed. IMHO, the strong point in a firesteel is the stability and longevity. If you want to take the bare minimum for SUL, a firesteel will light your stove, but don't lose it :)

[Glenn S]

From what I've read, the Scout weighs in at 1.6 oz. They make a Mini that lists a .6 oz weight though. Some report that the rod can break, but I haven't had that problem yet. Weight seems right from what I remember (at work now, can't weigh). Also, try other items you might be carrying for a striker, like the file of a mini-multi tool or something. Can leave the striker at home if something else will throw good sparks. Even with the supplied striker, only one side of it is meant to throw sparks, the other side won't work so well. So if you use something else, be sure it works well first.

I only mention the Mini and the optional strikers because this is the SUL area, and there are lighter alternatives to the Scout and its striker. Also, unless you're going to use the striker as your main firestarter, you'll only be carrying it for a backup anyway.

EDIT: The Scout is rated at 3k strikes and the Mini is only 1.5k.

[David Thomas]

>"almost every single SUL gear list I have looked over in the last few months had no secondary fire starters"

Rick: The only way I'd bring only one fire starter is if I wasn't planning to use it (no stove, no fire, all cold food) and only had it for emergencies. I'm cool with one set of clothes, one of most everything, but for fire starters, I want the redundancy if my menu depends on it.

"Woo-hoo!, I got my base weight down another 11 grams." (And if it fails/gets lost, my 6,800 grams of food is much less useful). No thanks.

When I need to melt snow, I'd go for more redundancy.

[Rick Sutton]

Glenn – Maybe the Scout 2.0 weight that much as I know not all weight specs are necessarily accurate. I did find a weight of 27g on the Light My Fire website for the 2.0 and a 1 oz spec on REI's webpage, yet who knows for sure as REI has the Mini at 1 oz as well.
I do want the lightest items I can find that will do the job (SUL), so i will have to investigate a bit more.

Dale – I also have to decide if this is going to be fire starter #1, #2, or #3 (if I have three) as that might determine which one I really need. It would appear lighting an esbit every night with a fire steel when I had a bic would be harder than using a lighter with the steel for the backup. And why not add in a few matches as well.

[Dale Wambaugh]

Most hand cleaners are 60% or better, so 70% sounds good to me. I've used Purell with no problem.

I just tried a couple generic brands we have around the house with 62% and 65% alcohol and both were easy to light. I imagine there might be some with additives that may make them harder to light and/or burn well. Pretty easy to test.

The hand cleaner trick is something I use for backup. I normally light an Esbit cube by picking bit up and flaming the end with a lighter.

[Rick Sutton]

Dave – I couldn't agree more. I do want as light of a pack as I can and I will continue to look for ways to make it lighter. However, aren't we just talking an ounce or so here or maybe even grams for real safety if needed. For an area like this, it just makes too much sense – at least for me. If this extra weight ruins my trip, maybe I should just stay home – smile.

[Rick Sutton]

Dale – Does your method of holding an end and lighting the other work as well when it is windy? Maybe the wind only effects the initial lighting and won't effect an already lit tab as it gets placed down on the ground. I have a Trail Designs cone and usually have lit the tab while it is sitting in the little stove stand and wind can really play havoc on my bic mini in that situation even when I try to block it with my body or pack.

[Dale Wambaugh]

My inclination is to turn my back to the wind and curl around whatever I'm lighting. It is much easier if you get the flame under the Esbit.

Never lit your cigarette while riding your motorcycle, eh?

[Bob Gross]

A completely different alternative is a magnesium bar. You use a knife blade or hacksaw blade to whittle little magnesium flakes off into a pile of tinder. Then, if you can get any sort of flame onto the flakes, you will have a very hot fire with a very bright light, but only for seconds. It is also good for night signaling.

The little brother to the magnesium bar is magnesium ribbon, and it weighs just about nothing. If you can hold it directly over a flame, it will catch and burn similarly, but since it is a ribbon only 3mm wide or so, it will rapidly burn up the ribbon. Therefore, it is much better in the night signaling department and less perfect for starting a bonfire.

–B.G.–

[Glenn S]

"Never lit your cigarette while riding your motorcycle, eh?"

Haha! I smoked for 30 years (quit 6 years ago) and it made me the awesome firestarter I am today! ;-) I also learned that there's no such thing as a wet bic. Just keep rolling the wheel over your Levis really fast (or a smooth branch) and it'll dry out and start throwing sparks in no time.

Edit: Not that you'd be wearing Levi's in the backcountry, but there's lots of branches.

Just weighed the Mini. 8 grams for the rod and 6 grams for the striker.

[Rick Sutton]

Bob – thanks for the magnesium bar idea. I did watch some YouTube videos on that system and then wondered if my derma safe razor blade knife which is all I carry would even work on it.

Glenn – Thanks for weighing the Light My Fire Mini. At 0.6 oz that seems nice, although, there are so many reviews on it not being durable enough and that is a bit frightening, if and when I'd need a spark.

Does anyone use the Spark-Lite Firestarter? With the firestarter weighing 0.19 oz and the Tinder Quick tabs at 0.024 oz each it would seem like the lightest "emergency" firestarter not to mention I could use it with a broken hand if needed. At the same time, my fall could have broken my leg as well making it possible to get wood to light it with – smile.

[Travis B.]

I just weighed my firesteel. I'm pretty sure it's the Light My Fire Scout and on my scale the firesteel alone is .6 oz and with the striker it's .9 oz. There is always the option of getting rid of the striker and using something you already have available in your pack to strike the steel with. A roughed up spine of a knife works pretty well.

And Rick, my suggestion if you do go the firesteel route is to use it as your main source of fire. I carried mine around as a back up for a few months before realizing that I wasn't that good with it. To use a firesteel well takes a lot of practice so if you are going to carry one you might as well use it regularly so that you're confident you can get a fire going if need be. Plus, it's a great way to impress people who have never seen one used!

Cheers,
Travis

[Dale Wambaugh]

A sharp 90° edge on a knife spine will do the trick. I'm not afraid to use the very bottom of a knife blade for a striker. In fact, I have altered a couple with a semi-circle to fit the diameter of my firesteel.

I like the strikers on the LMF Scout 2 and the Exotac firesteels. I settled on the Exotac polySTRIKER due to the long handles on the steel and the striker and the stowing feature for the striker. 0.49oz with the Triptease lanyard.

Here's my fire starting gear and I would use them in about the same order.

Mini Bic in vinyl holder with some light line to make it fit better and an o-ring for a safety: 0.69oz

K&M long match case with compass, UCO storm matches and strikers, and a "no blow out" birthday candle: 1.46oz

Exotac polySTRIKER: 0.46oz

Small vial of alcohol get hand cleaner from my hygiene kit: 0.4oz

Bison Designs spy capsule with 5 Tinder Quick tabs packed in tight 0.42oz

Orion 5 minute fire starting and signal flare in a Seal-a-Meal pouch: 3.8oz

Like the hand cleaner, there are other items in your pack to aid fire starting: toilet paper, food wrappers, cooking oils, antiseptic wipes and gauze from your first aid kit, etc. It's good to think about these options before you are stupid from cold and fear.

I do always carry a 3"-3.5" pocket knife or a 4-4.5" fixed blade Mora knife.

[Glenn S]

I'm going to play around with a fresnal lens this summer. Won't do any good unless it's a bright sunny day of course, but for 2 grams i'll like having the magnifier along for my poor peepers anyway. Haven't tried starting fires with a magnifier since I was a kid, so it should bring back memories :)

[Author]

Posts