Ultralight and the 10 Essentials

[Ken Thompson]

"Scary for those of you who think you are superior to me."

" If you're not a people person. Or worse,"

WTF!?!

Get off your soapbox.

I agree with Gob, of course.

[Buck Nelson]

Some of the essentials are not always essential. Around here it's not going to get dark for the next few weeks, so I wouldn't carry lighting.

But I think it's a good concept and serves as a sensible starting point. An example of a "ten essential" item that often gets left at home, in situations where it shouldn't, is a compass. The best navigators can get completely confused even in familiar country, in snowstorms for example. Pretty nice to be able to follow a compass bearing to a recognizable place!

[Daniel Fish]

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[Cayenne Redmonk]

Lay off the drugs. Get help.

Try writing a coherent post to express your view. Use the words to make your point, not meaningless emotional phrases. Don't abuse the language.

Thanks, hope this helps

–God.Bless.–

[Dale Wambaugh]

Would you guys try to stay on the subject and leave the personal attacks in chaff? This really annoying. If you can't behave, I'm going to take my ball and go home.

[Ian]

"Attitude, cultural norms, etc… irrelevant to my idea to carry extra maps, carry extra compasses, carry extra whistles."

I misunderstood your intentions. Your earlier comments gave me the impression that you were going to randomly question hikers about their preparedness on the trail. My subtle point was that would not be well received by some people. I now understand that you want to carry extra maps/compasses for hikers in distress. Wonderful.

Dale,

I'm glad that you champion the 10 essentials and being prepared for the unexpected. This is something we discuss much at work. One of the most dangerous points in a law enforcement officer's career is the 7-10 year mark. When you're new, you do everything by the book. After you've gained some proficiency at your craft, many will start cutting corners (not wearing armor for knock-and-talks, etc).

Backpacking is the same thing imo. Many of us start off with these ridiculous backpacks and are prepared for arctic storms in Death Valley and chainsaw wielding bears. We then learn through the UL Kool Aid to leave the unnecessary garbage at home and then some look at their compass and realize that they haven't used it in the past couple years. Then you find yourself in whiteout conditions trying to figure out which way is up.

HYOH all but it's certainly food for thought.

v/r

Ian

[spelt with a t]

Introverts lead joyless* lives.

*According to the official, single, universal definition of joy, which is, "Being a people person."

[Nick Gatel]

"Introverts lead joyless* lives."

A while back there was a thread about what BPL members did for a living. As expected, the majority had task oriented jobs such as programmers, accountants, engineers, etc. Task oriented people tend to be introverts, but this is not universally true of course. This isn't a bad thing. Most gear lists I see include the "essentials." So this is a "preaching to the choir" type of thread. It is good to revisit the subject as many of us can get complacent over time, as has been pointed out.

I don't buy the "joy of helping others" as a backpacking goal or personal attribute. I am out there to HMOH, not to help others, teach others, introduce others to backpacking, spread the UL gospel, or enhance the common good of all who enter the wilderness. It is my responsibility to carry all necessary essentials to ensure I am safe. What others choose to do, or not do is none of my business. I will assist others who are in danger or hurt. If I meet someone on the trail I am not going to engage them to measure their level of preparedness. I am not going to talk to them unless they start a conversation, which I will cut short unless they need help. I go to the wilderness to enjoy solitude, not socialize with others. If I wanted to talk to a bunch of people I would go to Walmart. There are probably a lot of Walmart shoppers who need help too, so for those who want to help others, head on over there :)

[Dale Wambaugh]

"….Most gear lists I see include the "essentials." So this is a "preaching to the choir" type of thread. It is good to revisit the subject as many of us can get complacent over time, as has been pointed out."

Au contraire! My point in starting this thread is that there are so many threads and even BPL articles that advocate using windshirts in lieu of rain gear, leaving out navigation gear and shelter, ineffective cutting tools and lighting, first aid kits stripped to uselessness, and so on. And there are thousands who read these forums without posting gear lists, so that is no measure of the knowledge and skills of the readership, aka "the choir."

[spelt with a t]

And there are thousands who read these forums without posting gear lists

And, as is often pointed out, the gear lists that are posted are often not comprehensive. I've never posted one, but I have compared my spreadsheet to those who have, and noticed a lot of stuff that was either extra on my part or missing on their part.

[Kattt]

"
Au contraire! My point in starting this thread is that there are so many threads and even BPL articles that advocate using windshirts in lieu of rain gear, leaving out navigation gear and shelter, ineffective cutting tools and lighting, first aid kits stripped to uselessness, and so on. And there are thousands who read these forums without posting gear lists, so that is no measure of the knowledge and skills of the readership, aka "the choir.""

I am with Dale on this.

[Daniel Fish]

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[Daniel Fish]

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[Dale Wambaugh]

Just use the ignore button on your keyboard. Sometimes the nerds just get… nerdy!

The forums are more fun if everyone stays on message and polite. I've committed the same sin and regretted it.

[Anonymous]

"But I'm talking about taking it to the next level. We keep hearing about folks getting lost out there. I could argue back and forth all day long about personal responsibility. But let's get practical. How much tax payer resources are spent bringing these folks in? How much $$ would be saved if they didn't get lost in the first place. Yes, in a perfect world, everyone would use common sense, research, prep, know what they're doing. But that's not happening and people on BPL seem to get discouraged. Like there's nothing we can do. They ( the lost hikers ) aren't listening. They ( the lost hikers ) can't be helped. Let darwin's rule fix it? That's an expensive solution. Maybe if we send them ( the lost hikers ) a message in a different way? hence, the compass whistle paper map idea."

Daniel – From the tenor of your rap, you've been smoking some bad sh!t. Maybe it's time to spend more of your hard earned cash on upgrading your weed and less on redundant gear for hapless hikers in need? ;0)

Peace, love, dove, you happy hiker, you.

[Ken Thompson]

I don't buy the "joy of helping others" as a backpacking goal or personal attribute. I am out there to HMOH, not to help others, teach others, introduce others to backpacking, spread the UL gospel, or enhance the common good of all who enter the wilderness. It is my responsibility to carry all necessary essentials to ensure I am safe. What others choose to do, or not do is none of my business. I will assist others who are in danger or hurt. If I meet someone on the trail I am not going to engage them to measure their level of preparedness. I am not going to talk to them unless they start a conversation, which I will cut short unless they need help. I go to the wilderness to enjoy solitude, not socialize with others. If I wanted to talk to a bunch of people I would go to Walmart. There are probably a lot of Walmart shoppers who need help too, so for those who want to help others, head on over there :)

A huge +1 Well said Nick. I could not agree more.

[Jennifer Mitol]

Another + to both ken and nick.

I help people for a living. It makes me feel wonderful, and very few things in life are as satisfying as that.

HOWEVER, I also have a major intolerance for incompetence, and the one time I had to call EMS on the trail only ticked me off, it didn't make me happy at all.

I had had hip surgery that spring, it was my birthday trip and I had taken 2 days off work to make a nice 4-day weekend to take my first hike since my surgery. I was thrilled!!

There were 5 of us going…including a 14 year old who was on her first backpacking trip.
And there was Margie. She was a 65-year-old retired school nurse who was also a diabetic. Apparently she had been in a car accident earlier that week when she accidentally accelerated her car into a bank wall, but never bothered to tell us. She also was carrying not only the 10 essentials, but both a tent AND a hammock (she wanted to try it out), and obviously a great deal else, all in a pack that was easily as big as she was. And nearly as heavy; I couldn't lift it out of the back of the van to get my pack. She wanted everyone to wait for her while she rested every 20 feet, to have people help pull her up steps that she couldn't step up (because her pack was so heavy)…

Long story short, she started having trouble right away – but didn't really say anything – I waited for her at the top of a climb (the others had hiked ahead), had a snack, read a book, napped…then a gentleman came up to tell me that my "friend" had fallen off the hill. She was ok, but needed help.

So, I hiked back down the hill, goaded her back up (the closest road was ahead of us), and after much argument just ended up calling 911. She was having a stroke. By the time I called, it was 6pm…we had been hiking for 10 hours and had only covered 4 miles.

Needless to say it was a huge damper on our trip, the 14 year old was pretty upset, and the whole thing pretty much ruined my birthday weekend. Of course I was going to help, but wow she should have never gone with us.

Moral of this story?
A) be VERY careful about who you let join you for trips
B) some people need to find different hobbies

A few years later do I feel good about this? Not at all. I'm still angry at her for putting me in that situation, and now I can no longer just go on any hiking trip that comes up…I've become a hiking snob and now I'm very, very picky about who my companions are.

And I really, really need to just make myself go on a solo trip. Just me and the pooch……..

[Ian]

Jennifer,

I just learned the hard way about having an open and honest communication with new hiking partners as well. Last weekend I went on a 22 mile (total) there and back hike with a couple guys in the North Cascades. I've hiked with one of them before but not the other. The new hiker had previously suggested hiking the Hoh River Trail so I made the assumption that he was up for hiking 11 miles into the woods.

Since we were in the N. Cascades NP, we had to reserve our campsites at the time we received our permit. We looked at the options and I casually asked if camp such-and-such looked good and received a mumbled affirmative. Since we were all nursing mild hangovers I didn't read too much into it.

Six miles into the hike, he explained how he previously had knee surgery and that a shorter hike into the woods would have been a better fit for him. We had a climb of 1200' in less than a mile which got everyone's heart rate up (first trip of the year so cut me some slack) but was really bad on his knee. We made it to camp with a dark cloud hanging over our heads and some resentment. An hour later, we had a campfire going, hot chow in our bellies, and everything was once again ok in the world.

So lesson learned. If I ever find myself in that position again, I'm definitely going to make sure that everyone voices their expectations and limitations. I expect some mild suffering from time to time when backpacking but I now understand that other people have different expectations.

[Kattt]

Helping someone out on the trail is a completely different issue than choosing the wrong backpacking companions. One is as much to blame for heading out with a problem hiker, as the problem hiker him/herself; part of being prepared and doing the homework.

[Ian]

I completely agree with you Kat which is why I shared my experience. I spent my time worrying about my gear/capabilities and failed to do my homework about my hiking companion. I made a mistake and have learned from it.

[Jennifer Mitol]

Normally I would agree with you…but this person had been hiking with us before, she was bragging about all the weight she had lost, what great shape she was in, and had just come back from a rim to rim hike with her grandson and said she felt great.

This was someone who I knew should have known better, but because she didn't want to back out of the hike she just kept all the other stuff to herself. She had a massive blood clot in her leg from the accident (which she told no one about) and that is where the stroke came from.

I was angry with myself for not recognize her issues sooner in the day, but I was also trying to enjoy my own hike…and was reluctant to pull the plug on the trip for everyone…and selfishly myself.

Needless to say, this trip did change the way I choose my hiking partners.

[Dale Wambaugh]

I prefer hiking solo. Walking to someone else's pace is not my cuppa tea. Hiking with my wide is fine, but I have 29 years practice :) Going with a group would make me crazy.

[Josh Brock]

I prefer hiking with people but the people I go hiking with are typically much faster than me so I end up hiking solo. I have many injuries that slow me down. but hiking solo is about a thousand times better than no hiking at all.

BTW Daniel I told you many people feel the way I do about having to help people on the trail. Most of us are out there on what little free time we have and though it might be selfish we do not want or find pleasure in cancle/changing a trip we have been looking forward to and planning for weeks/months because other people decided to be irresponsible.

[Cayenne Redmonk]

I used to be gung-ho about helping people, when I was younger.

Here I am leaving my yard for a day hike in 1982,

carrying the bare essentials needed to support a small village attacked by a fire breathing dragon.

Provided the dragon has left the area of course. Obviously, because of brave explorers that have raided the dragon nests for the gold, I don't need to carry quite as much these days, and I am very thankful for THAT !

In any case, the older I get, the more I feel like providing assistance to the non-injured, or barely scratched robs them of the experiences that made me feel like providing assistance to the non-injured, or barely scratched is the wrong course of action.

Being very scared that death is close is a beneficial experience that takes the invincibility out of a person. 99% of the idiots in the backcountry have not been close enough to death to know better, and don't know anyone that has been.

Experience and success are the greatest teachers, jumping in too early robs people of both.

–G.B.–

[Randy Nelson]

"And I really, really need to just make myself go on a solo trip. Just me and the pooch……."

There you go. But don't make the mistake I made this morning. I said "Wanna go backpack?" and he was bouncing off the walls. Then I tried to explain that we weren't actually leaving for 6 hours. He knows a lot of words, but isn't so good with sentences.

I prefer to go with just my dog but also enjoy the company of others when the occasion arises. But the dynamic of the two types of trips are sure different.

A long time ago on a trip to Yosemite with two friends, one of them broke through the snow and stepped into a small stream as we were getting close to camp. He didn't mention it and after dinner went into his tent right away. The next morning he mentioned that he had done so because he was shivering and it took quite a while to stop after he was in his bag. My other friend and I both said that was information he should have shared when it happened, not the next day. And we agreed to share such information in the future. 2 days later he slows way down and when I asked if he was OK, he said his pack, which he had not used in a long time, was not fitting properly and it was rubbing his hip raw. Again, this was something he should have brought up right away so we could possibly have dealt with it. Swapped packs or fashioned additional padding, etc. Now it was a significant issue. In the end, all was fine, but I'm a stickler for discussing any known issues before going with a group. ANd making sure everyone will share info the group should be aware of on the trip and not worry about being a burden or thought of as a complainer.

As for the original topic. I carry the 10 essentials on any significant day hike and always while backpacking. Even if I'm going to someplace I really know well, I bring a map. One reason is, I just like maps. And I do bring extra paper copies and have given them out often. I consider people asking questions like, how far is it to xyz, is the the xyz trail, where are we, to indicate they want help. :) I offer to show them on their map. And when they say they don't have one, I show them on a copy and give it to them. Hopefully, that drills home a lesson that they should carry a map in the future.

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