Why a knife instead of scissors?

[Ian]

Out of curiosity, what do you object to with the Swiss Army scissors? The SAK classic is light enough that I don't feel the need to choose either/or; for me it's the perfect tool for trail hiking.

Someone mentioned this option earlier.

http://www.swissarmy.com/us/product/Swiss-Army-Knives/Category/Replacement-Parts/Replacement-Scissors-SwissCard/30521
30521

[Marko Botsaris]

In principle you could use scissors (even knife + file) to do nails, but still a great idea (mine is missing the clipper) since there are several feet/nail issues that could become major problems. Again, you could use the knife only, but some of the application of the clipper could become "mission critical" so nice to have the best/safest tool.

Tiny tweezers also very useful for tic removal. Right about now they are approaching their peak around here. If you walk under a low hanging branch, even without tocuhing anything, you can hear then hitting your windshirt like rain as they dive bomb anything that moves. lol

[Brian UL]

Don't know what the big deal is. Get the right tool for the job.
I've hiked with nothing but some folding scissors from the sewing box (JMT)
And I've hiked with a Mora and Fiskars folding saw (100 mile ME)
You don't need scissors or a knife, you can't tear open packaging and melt cord and break/nibble food.
I bring scissors when traveling because I like to only have a carryon. I take a knife if I plan on using my wood stove or go on a day hike where I'm not carrying shelter or sleep gear.
Tools make life easier and tasks less of a chore, if they don't do that for you leave em home. Only you can decide if carrying them is worth it.

[Dena Kelley]

"I should have put UL in the title. This thread is really for the ULers"
–
So a bunch of people on a *UL forum* disagreed with you about whether a knife was handy to have, so you've decided none of us knife users qualify as UL? Why start a thread like this, if you have your mind made up and don't want to hear anyone else's opinion unless it's just like yours? Every post I saw in response to yours was respectful and simply offered that person's viewpoint on knife vs. scissors. Your response is kind of insulting, insinuating that knife users must therefore not qualify as UL.

Perhaps next time you should add to your OP that you only want to hear back from people who completely agree with you.

[Kattt]

What Dena Kelley said.

[Tom Lyons]

The way I see it, a pair of scissors is just two knives bolted together at a pivot joint.

If you want to be UL, carrying scissors is carrying twice as much as necessary.

[Justin Baker]

"I should have put UL in the title. This thread is really for the ULers, where you bring a 0.7oz Swiss Army Knife, or a Dermasafe Razor, not the ones that take a 2oz fixed blade."

So you can't be UL and carry a fixed blade knife? I carry a small fixed blade to save wight. I use it to carve a few stakes for my tarp and I use it to create fires in wet weather to cook with (save weight on fuel) and keep warm (save weight in camp clothing). Right there I can save almost a pound with my 2 oz knife by putting in a little more effort to camp tasks which I enjoy doing. This is just what I sometimes do, if it doesn't interest you then that's perfectly fine. You seem to have a very narrow view on ultralight backpacker gear and techniques. Either way, 2 ounces is nothing to lose sleep over and if you really think it is, then you are being an armchair backpacker.

[Max Dilthey]

Leatherman Micra here. Great little tool; spring-loaded scizzors, all the screwdrivers for my headlamp, mini-light, and camera, a regular knife, and a bottle opener. I have used the ruler tick-marks on several occasions, though I can't remember now. Weighs a couple of ounces.

When I bike tour ultralight, I don't skimp. Next tour I'll be carrying a Leatherman Wave with hex-bits for the screwdriver. Having to improvise from stripped bolts or a lost wrench was a nightmare last tour.

[Luke Schmidt]

I don't really do "bushcraft" but I've found lots of uses for my knife that scissors would not do
-Sharpening sticks to use on slippery snow (didn't have trekking poles, didn't expect hard packed snow)
-Fixing up a broken stick into a trekking pole for an injured friend
-Improvised tent pegs
-Splitting wet wood for a fire
-Spreading Nutella
-Carving up the apple I brought for the first day
-Carving up summer sausage
-Sharpening a stick to cook the summer sausage on (great way to have hot food without a cook kit)

None of these were life and death issues but the knife was nice to have. I've had one or two situations where people were really cold and I felt like getting a fire going was really important. In those case I'll take a couple ounces in my pocket to know if I really have to I can split up wet wood and start a fire.

[Brian Lindahl]

> So a bunch of people on a *UL forum* disagreed with you about
> whether a knife was handy to have, so you've decided
> none of us knife users qualify as UL? Why start a thread like
> this, if you have your mind made up and don't want to hear
> anyone else's opinion unless it's just like yours? Every
> post I saw in response to yours was respectful and simply offered
> that person's viewpoint on knife vs. scissors. Your response
> is kind of insulting, insinuating that knife users must therefore
> not qualify as UL.

I chose to not bring a real knife because it is unnecessary weight, not because a forum told me to.

I think you misunderstood. You decide to bring a real knife as a luxury item, that's fine. You can still adhere to UL principles and bring luxury items. I bring a camera as a luxury item, but I wouldn't call bringing a camera adhering to UL principles – it's unnecessary weight. I believe my wording was misleading. I should have written:

"I should have put UL in the title. This thread is really for the ULers WHO BRING a 0.7oz Swiss Army Knife, or a Dermasafe Razor, not the ones that take a 2oz fixed blade."

… as you can see, especially by the last sentence, "not the ones [ULers] that take a 2oz fixed blade". And… "I should have put UL in the title" means "Why an UL knife instead of scissors?".

What I really want to know is: Why should I bring a UL knife or razor instead of UL scissors?
NOT: Why should I bring a big knife instead of scissors?

I already know you can do woodcraft with a big knife, that's pretty obvious isn't it? Start a fire and make stuff – neither of which I want to spend time doing when I'm backpacking. To me, that's wasted time that I'd rather spend photographing scenery or climbing a nearby ridgeline. And, being often above treeline, it's downright impossible many times. But to you, that's not wasted time at all. HYOH and all that.

[Justin Baker]

"I think you misunderstood. You decide to bring a real knife as a luxury item, that's fine. You can still adhere to UL principles and bring luxury items."

"adhere to UL principles"

Brian, you sound like an ultralight nazi. There is no such thing as ultralight "principles" that you need to adhere to. Ultralight is a having a light pack. Whichever way you get your pack light is your choice. If you don't mind getting a little bushcrafty, a small knife can actually save you some weight. Calling it a luxury item in all situations is just ridiculous.

[Brian Lindahl]

Of course I sound like an ultralight nazi. The principle of UL is to religiously cut weight wherever possible – is it not? Look at everything you have, and cut weight wherever you can. The word 'Ultra' is in there for a reason – and not because it sounds cool, but because it's going many steps beyond lightweight backpacking.

Eh, just my opinion. I don't think we need to argue semantics anymore, that wasn't the point of my post. The point of my post is… why an UL knife instead of scissors? I'd change the subject line if the forum allowed me to.

[Max Dilthey]

Two things you can't bring up on BPL without getting a million off-topic posts:

Guns and Knives.

If you're expecting everyone to shape up, you're in for a disappointment.

I did glean one thing from this thread, though. You guys are addicted to Salami.

It brings back visions of making wraps on my bike tour with my two buddies. We were sharing a block of white cheddar by taking bites off it and then dropping the cheese from our mouth onto the wrap. Bite, Bite, Pass, like mother birds…

My salami knife is my incisor.

[Brian Lindahl]

> It brings back visions of making wraps on my bike tour
> with my two buddies. We were sharing a block of white
> cheddar by taking bites off it

Ahh, kindered spirits! I remember sharing a 2lb block of cheddar using that same… technique last summer on a ski tour trip with a buddy. I was a bit shocked when he pulled the brick out of his pack! But hey, if you offer me food, I'm not turning it down! (he really just wanted to get rid of as much weight as he could – hah)

[Max Dilthey]

Haha, we bought too much cheese once. Jim had a block of sharp in his bike pannier. After one day of heating up under the summer sun, we (perhaps unnecessarily) assumed it was bad but he kept it in there. Twenty-five days later, we finished the tour. Three MONTHS later he gives me my panniers back so I can repair them, and the cheese was still in there… looked fine!

[Luke Schmidt]

In fairness I believe Ryan Jordan leaves the knife at home unless he's fishing. Andrew Skurka carries a tiny little swiss army knife.

As I mentioned I feel more secure knowing I can carve up a stick for a fire if need be. I'm not talking about bow drill fires, etc. just splitting a few wet sticks to get at the dry inner wood. Now remember I often hike without a stove. If I had alcohol, ebsit tabs, or a canister stove I could use those in an emergency to help get a fire started.

If you want a really lightweight knife I think the 0.5 oz Buck Ultralight would be hard to beat. Its tiny but it would take more abuse then a little key chain swiss army knife. You could carry that for cutting and break the scissors off a swiss army classic and keep them in your first aid kid for trimming nails.

Of course I normally don't bring any clippers on shorter trips. I just trim my nails before I leave.

[Bob Gross]

I seldom have any need for a serious knife since I only open food packages and cut some first aid tape. As a result, I make my own knives out of thin aluminum or titanium sheet. My favorite is thin aluminum with a serrated edge, and it weighs in at a hefty 1.8 grams.

–B.G.–

[Ken Thompson]

Wenger Esquire fan here. At .7 oz I have not come across anything else as versitie in the knives/tools department. Could I find a pair of scissors lighter, perhaps. But for the negligable weight it does so much. Mine is not so standard as it is equipped with a serrated blade, and an eyeglass screwdriver instead of a nail file. If I leave the split ring off the little nub that it goes on is the perfect too; for disengaging the locks on my Bareboxer Contender.

So for .7 oz I get a screwdriver, knife, tweezers, toothpick, bear canister tool, and scissors. All in an easily purchasable, immediately recognizable, inexspensive package Adhering to the UL mantra. I believe this is a great example of multiuse.

I really have not felt the need to look for something else.

What scissors should I be looking at? Or should I?

[Brian UL]

So a guy has an UL pack weighting 5lbs with a .7 oz derma safe
But then he switches to a 2.oz Mora instead
and now he is no longer an ultra lite hiker with a pack weight of 5lbs and 1.4 oz

You don't need scissors or a razor, like I said open your packages with your hand melt cord to size, break food apart with your hands. Scissors and razor blades are unnecessary luxuries that you can do without just like any other knife.

[A W]

To review, the Leatherman Style (0.8oz) vs Swiss Army Classic (0.8oz) (same price, same functionality)

However, there is one tool that (can) be lighter, and have more functionality.

*remove the pin, screwdriver(s) and pen = probably lighter than the 'classic'.

Bonus: has light and a magnifying glass as a backup firestarter

*I may pick up the Leatherman Style CS (1.4oz) – just because it's sexy

[Paul Mountford]

“So a bunch of people on a *UL forum* disagreed with you about whether a knife was handy to have, so you've decided none of us knife users qualify as UL?”

“So a guy has an UL pack weighting 5lbs with a .7 oz derma safe But then he switches to a 2.oz Mora instead and now he is no longer an ultra lite hiker with a pack weight of 5lbs and 1.4 oz”

Are we talking about skin out or pack weight?

If the 2 oz Mora is carried with your clothing and not in your pack (talking pack weight here) then your sub 5lbs would still make you SUL. Likewise if your pack is less than 10 pounds with your knife then you qualify as UL.

Silly distinctions anyway!

[Brian UL]

"If the 2 oz Mora is carried with your clothing and not in your pack (talking pack weight here) then your sub 5lbs would still make you SUL. Likewise if your pack is less than 10 pounds with your knife then you qualify as UL. "

My post was sarcastic, I was try to point out how silly the concept was.

[Kattt]

This thread is doomed. If you don't "need" a knife you certainly don't "need'" scissors. You don't need a n thing. You don't even need to go out backpacking and leave your poop with or without TP. You are best for the environment if you just stay home.

[Randy Nelson]

This looks like the "I don't get it" thread gone terribly wrong.

It's really just a difference in styles and probably locations.

Like a lot of others, I carry the Swiss Army Knife Classic. I use the scissors a lot more that the knife. I can't recall when I did last use the knife. But I don't cut meat and cheese on the trail. If for some reason, I left my trekking poles or stakes (I did do this once) at home, I'd hang my shelter from a tree and use rocks for stakes. It's pretty dry out here so I've never had a problem finding twigs dry enough to use with my wood stove. I find them the same place I go to in a heavy rain, under a large, full tree. I mostly go solo but I leave my itinerary and when I'll be out, and carry a SPOT, so I don't think I'll have to saw off a limb.

So for me, and only me, I could leave the knife behind and not miss it. But I always carry a SAK on a daily basis and the Classic is light enough that I carry it anyway when backpacking.

[Brian Lindahl]

> This thread is doomed. If you don't "need" a knife you
> certainly don't "need'" scissors. You don't need a n
> thing. You don't even need to go out backpacking and
> leave your poop with or without TP. You are best for the
> environment if you just stay home.

It's doomed because SOME of these knife enthusiasts are having trouble understanding that I'm not interested in hearing about woodcraft, when I explicitly said so in the very first post. I don't know how you could interpret that in any other way?

I know you can make all sorts of cool stuff with a knife and some wood – that's obvious. However, I don't care – for a backpacking trip, I'VE never had to, never want to, most of the time can't or shouldn't, and will never need to.

I was asking, why bring an UL knife (razor, SAK classic, Dermasafe, etc.) instead of UL scissors? The reason why, is because EVERY single backpacking trip I'VE ever had, I would have been better off with UL scissors instead.

A sharp cutting tool is pretty damn useful to have for normal activities like first aid, gear repair, and especially for opening those tablet packages – near impossible without one. And unless you woodcraft or bring foods that need to be cut (in the field), from the sounds of it there's absolutely no good reason to bring a knife over scissors – scissors perform these tasks better, safer, and easier.

If you know of a task (NOT woodcraft) that a knife would have performed better than scissors, I want to hear about it. That's what I created this thread for. Thanks!

[Author]

Posts