Alternatives to Nikwax Tech Wash?

[Caleb Wininger]

Anyone have any experience replacing this stuff with something more economical? It works nice, but at $10 a bottle you can only do like two loads with it. I'm primarily concerned with preserving the DWR on my softshells/wind shirts/insulating pieces.

We have a tiny baby so I tried the special mild detergent we use for his stuff on my Moonstone Cirrus jacket. The DWR appears to have come out just fine, water still beads up readily. I may have just got lucky on that one, by no means did I employ the "scientific method."

I don't really understand the principles behind Tech Wash. What is it about regular detergent that damages DWR, and how does Tech Wash circumvent this while still cleaning the item?

[Dale Wambaugh]

Gore-tex recommends the following (see http://www.gore-tex.com and click on "care center"):

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WASH
Machine-wash warm (104° F/40° C). Powder or liquid detergent. No fabric softener. Follow manufacturer's instructions.
DRY CLEAN
If professionally dry-cleaned, request clear distilled solvent rinse and spray repellent. Follow manufacturer's instructions.
IRON
Steam-iron warm, placing a towel or cloth between the garment and the iron. No need to iron the garment until it is completely dry.
BLEACH
No chlorine bleach. It may damage your garment.
DRY
Tumble-dry warm. The heat from the dryer will help to reactivate the durable water repellent (DWR) treatment on your garment's outer fabric.
WATER REPELLENT TREATMENT
Gore recommends applying a topical water repellency restorative (DWR treatment) for outdoor fabrics, available at your local outdoor retailer. We do not recommend wash-in treatments as they can affect the garment's breathability.
STAIN REMOVAL
Use a pre-wash treatment such as Shout® or Spray 'n Wash®, following its manufacturer's instructions. Rinse well.

Restoring Water Repellency

“Wet out” can put a real damper on your day. That’s when liquid saturates your garment’s outer fabric layer above the GORE-TEX® membrane, leaving you feeling damp and clammy – as if your garment were leaking, even when it’s not.

To prevent wet out, all GORE-TEX® shell fabrics are treated with an ultra-thin treatment called DWR, a durable water repellent polymer that is applied to the outermost fabric layer. DWR penetrates the fibers and lowers the surface tension of the fabric, causing water to bead up and roll off this outer layer of fabric, instead of being absorbed.

DWR is not permanent, though. Regular wear and tear, plus exposure to dirt, detergents, insect repellent, and other impurities can shorten its lifespan. The good news is that restoring the water repellency of your GORE-TEX® shell is extremely easy.

How to Restore Water Repellency

GORE-TEX® outerwear:
Just machine wash it, rinse it, and put it in the dryer, being sure to follow the manufacturer’s instructions on the care label inside. The washing removes dirt and other contaminants and the heat from the dryer helps redistribute the DWR treatment on the fabric surface.

If water fails to bead up on the surface of your cleaned and tumble-dried garment, its DWR treatment has reached the end of its useful life. But don’t worry: You can restore the garment’s water repellency by applying a topical water repellency restorative (DWR treatment) for outdoor fabrics, available at your local outdoor retailer. We do not recommend wash-in treatments, as they can hinder your garment's breathability.

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I have used Tech Wash and it seemed to be a good product, but from everything I could see, it was just a good liquid detergent. No science in this, but just judging by y skin contact with the stuff. The main action in detergents is to cut oils and release those soils held in place by them. Water does the rest. I guess you could try a few drops of dilute detergent (as it would be used) on some oil in water and see how it disperses the oil compared to a working solution of your favorite laundry detergent. Gore's recommendation that products like Shout can be used tells me that detergent won't destroy their DWR in one pass, as Shout and similar products are just concentrated detergent.

My estimation of all this is to wash these garments gently, rinse them well and follow the drying instructions carefully. As you can see from Gore's instructions, heat reactivates the DWR. This has been the case for many years. I htink Tech Wash is a bit of truth and a bit of hype.

[Steve .]

I've used Granger's G-Wash Cleaner as an alternative for washing GoreTex.

10oz for $8.50 at REI. They recommend 1 capfull per garment. Each capfull is 2oz, so you should be able to wash 5 garments from a bottle.

http://www.grangersusa.com/products/g-wash-cleaner.html

[Aaron Granda]

I use Zest bar soap. I'm a bit of a cheapskate and would never spend $10 on soap. Zest works just fine and rinses right out. It's pretty mild too. I've never noticed a negative effect on DWR.

[Drowned Lemming]

Bar soap is the right move – Tech Wash is an expensive way of buying liquid soap!
I use ordinary soap flakes, which although the box states 'for handwash only' works well in automatic machines – as long as you don't use too much.
However, if you're going to use an automatic machine, it's worth running a couple of cycles with soap first (before adding whatever it is you want to wash), to remove any detergent build up.

[Caleb Wininger]

zest, huh? so do you just wash the garment by hand with the bar of soap or do you disolve some in the washer? what exactly is your method? i may try irish spring… i like that old commercial with all the irish people partying with that soap by some wilderness waterfall.

[douglas ray]

I have a low opinion of this business of selling "high tech fabric cleaner" "Down wash" etc. Pretty much what all of these things are is 100% pure soap, in some cases mixed with some odor-eating stuff. Soap typically does not removes coatings, which is why it is used to wash wool for example, it won't remove the Lanolin.

Basically soap works by removing the surface tension of the water, so you get the solvent effects of water magnified due to increased contact, but if something is not water soluble it won't be disturbed. Detergents remove the surface tension from the water and serve as a solvent in their own right and this solvent will dissolve oils and many other coatings including many DWR finishes.

Soap is available in many forms quite cheaply. I find the liquid convenient for laundry and I personally use Woolite. But pretty much any product that consists of soap without detergent is fine for washing your wool, DWR treated nylon, and down. I'm a little big shocked that people by the $10.00
a bottle stuff, but I'm afraid many consumers are under educated.

Go fourth and do laundry for less!

[Caleb Wininger]

>I'm a little big shocked that people by the $10.00
a bottle stuff, but I'm afraid many consumers are under educated.

Hence the initial post. Just trying to get educated. It doesn't seem shocking to me that people would buy this stuff. If the manufaturer tells you that washing your $250 Arcteryx softshell in detergent will jack it up you are pretty much going to do whatever it takes to prevent that, even if it means spending $10 on a "cleaner". Thanks for the info on the difference between the cleansing properties of soap v. detergent. that's what i was looking for.

[Miguel Arboleda]

Most likely I'm not contributing anything to anyone's education here, but has anyone wondered why Nikwax TX Direct wash-in (the waterproofing stuff) smells like Elmer's Glue? If I used Elmer's Glue, would I then have a cheap alternative to the expensive Nikwax solution?

[J R]

Its my opinion that for outdoor clothing, modern laundry detergent is "the Debil!".

For my outdoor clothes I use Dr B's… either the liquid soap or the Sal Suds. The clothes come out clean, smell nice, and like Douglas was talking about, its cleans without stripping out the "good stuff" like lanolin and DWR. Bonus, there is no "UV enhancers", which is great for wildlife watching.

[Caleb Wininger]

>Most likely I'm not contributing anything to anyone's education here, but has anyone wondered why Nikwax TX Direct wash-in (the waterproofing stuff) smells like Elmer's Glue? If I used Elmer's Glue, would I then have a cheap alternative to the expensive Nikwax solution?

i had the same thought so i tried it. it didn't help the DWR much, but i did end up with a sweet straightjacket. comes in handy when my wife gets out of line…

[Roger Caffin]

It is worth reading the info on Sports Wash at the Atsko web site: it explains very well why laundry detergent is BAD news for DWR. Basically, it leaves residues which sabotage the DWR action. Putting a new coating of DWR on dirty fabric (with detergent rsidue) is guaranteed to fail.

Not sure how much the Atsko Sports Wash costs, but you use very little of it each time and it works very well, both for cleaning up a DWR-coated fabric and for preparing a fabric for a new DWR coating.

[Kevin Pietriyk]

We buy Sport Wash at Walmart, it was 4 or 5 dollars for an 18-oz bottle, which is 18 loads. It seems to work on all our DWR-treated garments and gear. We've used it for 3 or 4 years now, never had a problem. Just remember to leave out the fabric softener! ;^)

I've used the Nikwax spray-on treatment, it does smell like PVA glue, but it works well. The wash-in treatment seems like a waste, diluting it in the washer to use it. Could you do it in a tub and do more than one garment/load?

[Caleb Wininger]

once again roger, you have delivered. checked out the site and it's very informative. i'm gonna score some sportwash (costs the same as regular laundry detergent) and the permanent DWR spray. problem solved. thanks!

[Matt Audet]

Im no expert, but I do know that liquid detergents have properties that change the surface tension of water and allow the water to penetrate the goretex.Even after rinsing these properties are still present in the pores and cause water to pass through places they wouldn't normally be able to. So dont use liquid detergents unless its one of those crazy expensive ones. Though I dont use those expensive soaps, only water. If I was to use something it would be a pure soap, those flakes or any other wettable powder would work as long as its not full of chemicals.
Good luck!

[Jack H.]

Many years ago the rumor was that Woolite was better for techy fabrics. So I've been reaching for that for a long time. Mostly. I'm satisfied, but then again I'm pretty "whatever" about my clothes. I've even washed many of them regularly with a bar of soap. My stuff is generally filthy to the point of permanent dirt so I figure any soap is a benefit.

Can anyone shed thoughts as to whether there is an actual advantage to Woolite?

[cameron eibl]

Atsko Sports Wash is the way to go.

[Lynn Tramper]

I have also always used Woolite or other gentle wool wash liquids. I carry it with me as my "Dr Bronner's" equivalent. I wash my dishes, hair, body and clothes with it in cold water (but NOT my teeth!!). Rinses clean easily too.

Of course, that doesn't answer the DWR question, but using a clenaser that rinses comletely out of the fabric is critical to getting a good DWR finish, no matter what brand you use.

[Richard Lyon]

I order it from Atsko in South Carolina in large containers. At a capful or two per wash it's quite inexpensive. I have many merino garments and Woolite doesa good job on them. Good old Ivory Flakes work too

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Slightly off topic, but to restore the DWR I prefer Grangers over NikWax. Nikwax is good but it's wax based which means it wears off about twice as fast as Grangers which is not wax based. I forget what Grangers uses as a base, but whatever it is it lasts 2x as long.

[John Mc]

I washed my 1 year old eVent jacket with Nikwax Tech Wash and then washed the jacket in a Granger DWR treatment, followed by a barely warm tumble dry. This was per the instructions. This weekend I climbed a closed ski slope and was soaked on the inside. Two days later I hiked up a local climb called My. Si was was soaked again on the inside. I've heard washing your jacket in a DWR treatment will block the pores from breathing.

"WATER REPELLENT TREATMENT
Gore recommends applying a topical water repellency restorative (DWR treatment) for outdoor fabrics, available at your local outdoor retailer. We do not recommend wash-in treatments as they can affect the garment's breathability."

I think I just proved this, becuase this jacket always breathed well before this treatment. I'm going to rewash and then use Nikwax spray on only the outside.

[Roger Caffin]

> I've heard washing your jacket in a DWR treatment will block the pores from breathing.
That depends on what DWR treatment you use. If it is wax-based (and some of the Nikwax products are), then it can block the pores. But Granger claim theirs is compatible with Gore-Tex, and I think it is a fluorocarbon. That should normally be OK.

I suggest that the real problem was that you simply sweated too much for the eVent jacket. NONE of the membranes are really 'breathable', despite all the marketing spin. Take the jacket off and try again. If necessary, use a non-membrane windshirt instead.

Cheers

[John Mc]

I hear what you're saying Roger and I appreciate all input. This is a jacket that I've used constantly every weekend when it's raining doing the same activities. It's never gotten my baselayer wet. I'm going to wash a couple times and apply a spray on only.

[Scott Truong]

I think it might have to do with the spray on vs wash (coating both sides). And I suspect the do-it-yourself DWR will initially not breath as well as when new (not sure if this is true).

Think the thing to do is wash, hang dry, spray until satisfied, hang dry, then put into dryer.

I use the Atsko wash and re-proofer (not the silicone one obviously) found at walmart in the hunting/fishing section. $4 each.

I found it works really really well. I did a pair of old nylon zip offs, old backpack, shoes and water beads off like crazy. I haven't done my eVent yet. I used the pump spray version because I couldn't find the aerosol.

I like the wash quite a bit too. I"m doing all my laundry in it, as I have quite a bit of merino.

[peter vacco]

i don't know so much as e-vent won't breath so hot. i know though for a fact that std old goretex will breath .. just a bit, but not enough so as to let one sweat out just walking (fast) down the street.
e-vent on the other hand will let me wear it and pack pretty hard on a cold day, and not be in sweatland until it's comfy time to take off the parka. not such a bad deal really. you can put e-vent on earlier in the storm too, because you know it's not going to lay you out.
what happened to the good Revive-X they sold in bottles last year and it worked ? can i blame it's disappearance on george bush ?
what does the informed walker use to restore his hard used e-vent thru-hiker parka ? nik-wax is the sucks from this end.
danka,
peter v.

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