Staking out a non-free-standing tent on very hard ground….

[Rafi Harzahav]

Hi,

I have a lightheartgear solo non-free-standing tent which I recently took the the Sierras. I generally like the tent, but found on several occasions that I had difficulty setting it up because I could not get my (very lightweight Ti shepard hook) stakes in the ground. Yeah, I guess I could get beefier stakes, but I'd like to avoid that. In any case, there were areas where, I think, even a stronger stake would not help.

REI makes Snow and Sand Tent Anchors, but these are not lightweight.

I'd appreciate hearing from people who have found good (ultralight) ways of dealing with this problem.

thanks,

rhz

[Bob Gross]

You can tie your guylines to some small tree branches, and then place big rocks on the branches to hold them in place. It is a lot easier to tie to a branch than it is to a rock.

–B.G.–

[HkNewman]

Use some cord to tie off to large rocks, etc…, though the method above can work fine if the branch is right-sized, and the rock is movable yet heavy enough to provide a stable anchor.

[Eli .]

I've also seen people put plastic bags on large rocks and tie off to the
bags.

[Link .]

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/ditch_your_stakes.html

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/46404/index.html?skip_to_post=396136#396136

[Paul Magnanti]

If the ground is not completely rock, adding some water to soften the ground and then put the stakes in will sometimes do trick.

[Dan Magdoff]

I do most of my backpacking in the sierras and alot of it is above tree line and camping on granite. To stake out my double rainbow which is a non-free standing tent, I simply get a piece of cord for each corner of the tent. Tie it to the tent with a bowline, and then tie a taughtline hitch on the other end which creates a big sliding loop, that wont slide when force is applied. Get a heavy rock for each corner and slip the loop around it and slight the knot to tighten the slack up. If you are in the sierras, there should be no problem finding a few good sized rocks anywhere you go. Make sure the line leading from the rock to the tent comes from the bottom of the rock as opposed to the top of the rock. Hope that helps!

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Ti has quite a bit of springy-ness to it, so you can grab a rock and try to pound those ti hook stakes it. It's not that hard to tell when you are approaching the strength limits of the stake and risking bending one. Normally you'll quickly get a feel for how hard you can pound (and it's surprisingly high with most ti-hooks) and then you'll be able to tap them into the ground with a little patience. It's amazing a little tapping with a rock makes…the stake just weaves it's way into the ground between the rocks.

[Justin R]

Great info. I am looking to do the lost coast and appreciate the ideas.

I like the stick and rock on top idea, but not sure how that would hold up. This idea is great though and similar ideas are cool. Like filling bag or something with water?

I am looking to figure out how to stake out 9 guy lines in sand for my next trip.

Any more suggestions would be great! Thanks.

[David Adair]

How about some of those wooden paint stir sticks for sand stakes? Light and free or almost free at the hardware store. You could sharpen the end if you wanted to get fancy. Otherwise, just use found sticks for deadman anchors. Take about a 14 inch stick, loop a line around the middle and bury it. I use longish shoe laces for the loop line and tie em the same way. When leaving, just pull the shoe lace out and leave the stick buried. Works in snow too.

[Nick Larsen]

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/46404/index.html?skip_to_post=396136#396136

Just use a deadman. Easy and it works well. See my post and Steven McAllister's post in the above thread for an example of what that is.

[ed hyatt]

I was concerned about this when I went to the Sierra's so took a free-stander – I like to camp high and not in trees….hence the 'bushes and shrub tie-off methods won't play.

If you use walking poles just 'de-section' them, thread through peg loops/guy's then weight with boulders; that works pretty well as long as you don't have too many pegging points to cover.

[Ken Thompson]

should not post before coffee.

vvv thanks Marc vvv

[Marc Eldridge]

Try this

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=13314&skip_to_post=97772#97772

[j lan]

One thing, round stakes verses stakes with fins will help greatly with removal once they are in the ground. Twisting the stake (easiest with hook stakes) will help break the freeze.

[Link .]

how many times are people going to post the same links….

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Just get some MSR Groundhogs. They are VERY strong and weigh little more than your Ti stakes. I've used them for years and haven't destroyed one, despite pounding on them with rocks.

Plus they hold well in softer ground & forest loam.

[Roger Caffin]

> I like the stick and rock on top idea, but not sure how that would hold up.
It works fine. Used it many times.
In bad weather, you just add more rocks …
Yes, you do need some good length strings on the corners so they can stretch out far enough to take lots of rocks, but that's a few grams at the worst.

Cheers

[Justin R]

do you have a link?

Thanks.

[David Thomas]

For your sandy Lost Coast trip, do a deadman. Stretch out your guyline. Near the end, dig a trench in the sand perpendicular to the guyline. Bury a stick with the guyline tied in the middle. For a small tent and slightly wet sand, a 12-inch stick 6 inches down is plenty, but do one and test it in your conditions.

The same idea can be scaled up. You can hold a 2000-pound boat in the current if you bury a log.

[Justin R]

Great idea! Thanks. That is what I am talking about. Sand replaces the rock.

I pre tie my guy lines and tension them using knots. I was thinking that I might need to use the little guy line micro locks instead of relying on the knots. Do you think that is good idea?

[David Thomas]

It doesn't come up often – I do it more on a vertical face to bear-bag food, but before rock climbers use "Friends", they used "nuts" and before they used wired aluminum nuts from REI, they used machine nuts from the hardware store, hence the name.

But a pebble in a loop of cord can sometimes be jammed in a crack in a rock for a very solid hold. Other times, a stick can be wedged in.

[David Thomas]

Justin: Using a tautline knot should be fine. You definitely need to be able to adjust the line length when using a deadman – you don't want to dig it up to move it an inch.

I have 700 feet of sandy beach here in Alaska and it is used by setnetters who establish lines to hold 600 feet of net in 8 knots of current. So I see a lot anchors and deadman used on a large scale. You can bury anything in the sand – sticks are easiest because you dig the least sand for a given anchor strength. But you can have a series of sticks for more holding power (maybe in shallow sand or in a land of small sticks). Any rock you can secure a line around, buried, is good. A buried stuff sack full of sand is BOMBER. V-8 engine blocks work great too, but aren't SUL. Just running the cord straight out for 10 feet is probably enough. Deeper is better – more pressure from the sand column means more friction.

And in Scouts, we'd anchor monkey bridges with double or triple backed-up stakes. I'll try to draw it with text:

main / / /
load /` / ` /
` / ` / ` /
`/ ` / ` /
/ ` / `/
___/___________`/__________ / _____ ground level
/ / /

That looks good on my screen, hope it posts okay.

[David Thomas]

Oh my, drawing with text doesn't work when the site takes out all the spaces. Well, let's throw a picture in then. Don't build the whole monkey bridge (unless you want to). Just look at the double stake at the end. Triple stakes are even more resistent to pulling out in soft ground.

[Justin R]

this is becoming very interesting now. I see how the stakes are pulling on each end to hold it up.

Tauntline is what I currently use. Sometimes is loosens on its own do to thin cord. I am sure thicker will not do this.

I was thinking the line locks might work better or give more versatility in terms of usable length for guy lines.

Will just have to get out and explore with these ideas. Definitely have better understanding of this idea. Sorta took it to another level here and I like it.

[Author]

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