Lightweight Mid-Height Trail Shoes State of the Market Report 2011

[Addie Bedford]

Companion forum thread to:

Lightweight Mid-Height Trail Shoes State of the Market Report 2011

[Anonymous]

"Enplane more of this please. I'd like to try it on a pair of Newbalance MT876OR's I have in a 2E. The toebox just isn't wide enough on my right foot."

Hi Chad,

If your post is in reference to mine, what I'm trying to say is locate where your little toe is by pressing with a finger along the side of the toe box with the shoe on. Your little toe will feel the pressure. Then draw a cross centered on that spot with a marker pen. Draw the lines about 3/8" to begin with(you can always enlarge the cuts if that isn't enough). Remove the shoe and make the cuts. Put the shoe back on. If the cuts have relieved the pressure, you're done, otherwise remove the shoe and extend the cuts another 1/8" or so. Repeat the procedure until the pressure is removed or the shoe falls apart(just kidding). We used to do this with running shoes all the time. I haven't had to do it with hiking shoes because I've had good luck with my fit so far, but the shoes are basically the same, so I don't see why it wouldn't work with them, too.

If you were referring to some other post, sorry I wasted your and my time. ;)

[bart spedden]

First, thanks for a good article. It definitely has me thinking about "ankle support" in different ways. I used to be a full grain leather boot wearing, 40lbs pack toting, weekend tripper. That changed years ago for a lightweight setup, but there's still a place in my heart where I secretly miss my big ol' chunks of leather. But at least now I won't miss them because of their ankle support.

This is a total nit pick but I spend a lot of time in my F1s and they absolutely flex at the ankle, by design. In fact, because of long tours and races, my wife has switched to them as well because of how efficient they are in tour mode with a flexible ankle and toe bellows.

[Chad Miller]

Yup Tom yours was the post I was asking about! Thanks for explaining the 'shoe cutting' method to me. Also thanks for being able to interpret my use of the word 'enplane'. :P

One question though, when you make the cuts are you cutting all the way through the shoe so that there is now a hole in the shoe around your pinkie toe?

[Keith Selbo]

Am I the only person concerned about toe protection? In my experience, some shoes/boots have a hard shell over the toe, some just an extra layer of fabric and some not even that. I'd appreciate knowing what toe protection these shoes have, but there's nary a word about toe protection.

I'd also like to know which shoe's sole/footbed combination has the most cushioning. Not a lot on that here either.

The most discomfort I've experienced on hikes is toenail pain from bashing my toes on rocks with shoes that had anemic toe protection. A close second is pain due to inadequate sole cushioning.

Am I the only person with these problems? That's the impression I get from this article.

I'm adding some words about "ankle support":

It has always been my understanding that this support is intended to keep the ankle from flexing beyond it's limits. Not to prevent ALL flexing. I find that high top boots do this for me fairly well and protect me from sprains. That said, the other way to limit over flexing is by limiting the weight on the ankle, something that trekking poles do quite nicely and they also make nice tent poles.

[Anonymous]

"Also thanks for being able to interpret my use of the word 'enplane'. :P "

I was only doing unto you as others have done unto me in similar situations. ;=)

"One question though, when you make the cuts are you cutting all the way through the shoe so that there is now a hole in the shoe around your pinkie toe?"

Yes, although it should be just a narrow slit, as opposed to a gaping hole. If you're worried about the exposure, you could glue/stitch a piece of fabric or whatever over the cuts with enough slack to avoid pressure on the little pinkie, although I don't think that should be necessary. We never used to have any problems, and we ran some pretty rough trails. As always, YMMV.

Let me know how it works for you if you decide to go ahead.

[william chriswell]

Nice article to read while having my morning coffee….But to what end? Useless info IMHO

[Hamish McHamish]

>Nice article to read while having my morning coffee….But to what end? Useless info IMHO

Concur. As is sometimes the case, I got more value from the comments than the article. I wasn't too terribly surprised, though, since it was from the author who says the only 'real' piece of meaningful data in landnav is magnetic north.

I learned about the different NB lasts, and how to use a razor slit to expediently fix a pressure point in the toe area. I tried this on an old pair of shoes that consistently hit my right big toe on the edge, and it worked great.

[rick mccoll]

Please, would you do an article on the availability, regardless of style and height, of these shoes. I cannot, as an individual, shop everything. I have tried and cannot find any consistency in the the sizing.

My right foot is somewhat larger than the left. I have, heretofore, dealt with this by using different lacing techniques for the right foot than the left.

I have gone thru hundreds of $$, trying to get to the perfect boot(shoe) to no avail.

Please consider this for future editorials.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Sports team trainers are taping experts when it come to using tape to give support where it's needed.

For chronically weak ankles (i.e repeatedly sprained) or newly sprained ankles use adhesive tape in a stirrup fashion from one side of the ankle, under the foot and up the other side of the ankle. After each underfoot wrap apply a lateral strip around the heel to each side of the foot. Use 3 to 4 wraps in each direction.

Alternate horizontal and vertical taping to create an "interwoven" appearance where the tapes cross. Done properly this will absolutely support the ankle from flexing left or right and permit only forward and rearward flexion. Also it can help keep swelling of an injured ankle down somewhat. An ACE bandage can be applied over the taping if the boot will accomodate it or at night if desired, to reduce swelling. ACE bancages will flex so it's best to use adhesive tape for "splinting" ankles if it's available.

Change dressing every 2 to 4 days. Clean with alcohol/hand sanitizer before applying new dressing.

[Anonymous]

"For chronically weak ankles (i.e repeatedly sprained) or newly sprained ankles use adhesive tape in a stirrup fashion from one side of the ankle, under the foot and up the other side of the ankle. After each underfoot wrap apply a lateral strip around the heel to each side of the foot. Use 3 to 4 wraps in each direction.

Alternate horizontal and vertical taping to create an "interwoven" appearance where the tapes cross. Done properly this will absolutely support the ankle from flexing left or right and permit only forward and rearward flexion."

+1 Tried and true.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi all

Sorry, I haven't been posting replies to this thread. My excuse is that Sue and I were doing the Red Route of the Via Alpina in Europe, from Trieste to Oberstdorf. Dolomite country – lots of limestone and some shale. (Look it up.) We were there for 8+ weeks Great fun, but extremly rough country for shoes: acres (or days) of limestone scree.

> how hard would it be to devote a little cheap warehouse space to some proven
> ultralight trail shoes if that would entice us to maybe check out their regular
> tennis shoes
Well, the Dunlop KT-26s and Dunlop Volleys haven't changed in 20+ years. The company would not dare!

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Dale

> I've been surprised that someone hasn't jumped outside the box and gone to a tough
> but fast drying all synthetic hiking shoe using many of the features found in water
> shoes— something with enough mesh to keep the rocks out, no leather, etc.
That's a fair description of most of the New Balance shoes I have been reviewing recently. I took 814s to Europe: they lasted. No need to take them off in the evening.

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

> It appears that the article was written with an apparent bias. And with the wide feet
> in the line-up, that left them with a significantly smaller set of shoes to review.
> I can understand the bias since trail runners are just more comfortable to wear.
and
> I didn't see a lot of familiar brands included – brands like Merrill, Danner,
> Cabelas', LL Bean, Vasque etc.

Both comments are correct, BUT …

The bias was entirely due to the fact that all of us in the review have (very) wide feet. No matter what anyone wants in a review, I am not going to wear shoes which are too narrow for my feet. Been there in the past, done that, had the agony. Never again.

Yes, we did check many many brands which advertised themselves as wide (and many more which simply did not say how wide they are), and generally all the missing brands people have been mentioning were no more than a D width. It would seem that only companies of the size of New Balance are willing to make their shoes in multiple widths. Well, we take what we can get.

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

Hi keith

> I'd appreciate knowing what toe protection these shoes have,
Yeah, all of them had good toe protection.
In fact, I don't think any of us bother testing footwear that does not have good toe protection. I guess we sort of assume that.

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

> I hesitate to take lightweight, low cuts into alpine off-trail backpacking conditions…

Ha!
Lightweight, low cut NB814s in the European Dolomites for 8 weeks. It doesn't come much rougher than that limestone scree country. No problems at all.

Cheers

[WV Hiker]

"I'd also like to know which shoe's sole/footbed combination has the most cushioning. Not a lot on that here either. "

Another good point here also. The midsole is the part of the shoe that does most of the underfoot cushioning. In lighter weight shoes and boots the midsole will be EVA (Ethylene vinyl acetate). It is used because of it's light weight but it breaks down quickly. A better midsole material is polyurethane. It provides better cushioning and last much longer but is usually (not always) heavier. It is seldom found in lighter boots.

Another point that I find interesting is related to the durability question. I'm not particularly interested in buying a new pair of shoes/boots each year just because they can't hack it in the real world and fall apart pretty fast. Anyone else feel this way?

Also, I know that the 16 oz/shoe is an arbitrary limit but I wonder what we would find if we went up let's say 2 oz per shoe. Would the range open up considerably.

[Roleigh Martin]

Two mid-height boots I'd have liked included are best-of mid-height boots in the near 1 lb range with rigid soles.

Keen Mid-Height Targhee boots
Lowa Renegade II GTX Mid Hiking Boots

I prefer the Mid-Height boots for doing the John Muir Trail. Lots of time you're walking down very rocky trails and your whole weight will land (for one foot) on two rock points. Having mid-height boots with rigid soles allow you to do such hiking without twisting your feet and without the sole wrapping around the points (no pointy feeling on the soles of the feet).

I have always used the Keen boots (but bought them each year with a $10 extra-year warranty and sure enough the JMT would wear them apart but not bad enough to short-circuit the hike, and the warranty would get me new boots for the next year). But Gander Mountain stopped insuring boots this year (they said too many boots got replaced, odd; I wonder who would have done that!). So I looked around this fall and per reviews, the Low Renegade II GTX boots look great and I tried them on and got a pair to do next year's JMT hike.

[Chris Crowley]

WV…sorry to jump in here, but I'm in the midst of a search as well. The Lowa Renegades look promising to me, but I'm wondering if Roleigh has spent any time in them yet? I read a review on Amazon where the guy was saying they were good for rough terrain, but not good for backpacking. That was a bit disappointing to read b/c I'm looking for something that would be good in the mountains with 25-30 lbs on my back. The lowa site talks about these boots fitting tightly and being relatively stiff, so I'm not sure why this reviewer said they weren't good for backpacking.

Roleigh, any thoughts?

Just saw another review that made me think to add a little more flavor here…I'm 6'5", 215 lbs, so a 30 lb pack would take the total weight to 245 (call it 250 w/ all the junk in my pockets). I know that's a lot of weight for any shoe, but you would think the bigger the size, the stiffer the shank since a taller person is generally going to weigh more than shorter person…

[Roger Caffin]

> I know that's a lot of weight for any shoe,
MYTH. Total MYTH.

Can you walk around barefoot? Of course. Then why should that weight worry the sole of a shoe – of any sort?

Cheers

[Patrick Kline]

Just got a pair that they fit very well. I recently had foot surgery and now use a custom footbed and need wide shoes. I really like that the Last is more like a human foot. I also have not complaints on the arch support. I don't think I will need the custom footbeds they provide plenty of support.

-Patrick.

[kevperro .]

Shoes/boots are personal. I let a boot review influence me in a purchase once…. never again. I've done enough trail miles and off-trail miles with various choices to know what my feet require and I could care less what someone else considers "state of the art".

[Jake D]

"Sports team trainers are taping experts when it come to using tape to give support where it's needed.

For chronically weak ankles (i.e repeatedly sprained) or newly sprained ankles use adhesive tape in a stirrup fashion from one side of the ankle, under the foot and up the other side of the ankle. After each underfoot wrap apply a lateral strip around the heel to each side of the foot. Use 3 to 4 wraps in each direction.

Alternate horizontal and vertical taping to create an "interwoven" appearance where the tapes cross. Done properly this will absolutely support the ankle from flexing left or right and permit only forward and rearward flexion. Also it can help keep swelling of an injured ankle down somewhat. An ACE bandage can be applied over the taping if the boot will accomodate it or at night if desired, to reduce swelling. ACE bancages will flex so it's best to use adhesive tape for "splinting" ankles if it's available.

Change dressing every 2 to 4 days. Clean with alcohol/hand sanitizer before applying new dressing."

As an Certified Athletic Trainer (proper term) I can tell you that a properly done ankle tape done with normal athletic tape is basically for show 30-60minutes after it goes on. The tape stretches out and it gets wet with sweat and becomes junk. Luckily most sport games don't last much longer than that and it gets the job done.

for a fresh sprain.. go for it. it will help for a while and maybe keep some swelling down. Ice or a cold stream for 15 minutes as soon as possible would be even better.

for chronic bad ankles rehab exercises with Therabands (google the exercises) are best so that you can strengthen and not need extra stuff. Until then we have athletes get the ASO brace. it has lace up and straps for good support.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

There were far too few selections. How about Danners? Merrills? Vasque? to name just a few significant manufacturers you missed.

Please don't give a "State of the Art" review without including at least a
Top Ten, with weights, prices, materials, and differing constructions. Otherwise the article ends up being very subjective and not much of a guide for the subscribers.

My Merrrill Mid GTX Ventilator-style boots are very well made, fairly light, durable and DO keep out the scree very well. I also have the low cut equivalent Merrill Ventilators which I wear often IF I'm not on the steeps where scree will easily roll in.

Just sayin'…

[Ken Thompson]

Posted 08/31/2011 21:20:33 MDT by Eric Blumensaadt (Danepacker)
I didn't see a lot of familiar brands included – brands like Merrill, Danner, Cabelas', LL Bean, Vasque etc.

Let's have a REAL survey next time. Personally I like my Merrill Mid GTX hikers for trails with a lot of scree. They keep most of it out of my shoes. I'm in the Will Reitveld camp here. Other times on moderate trails I use Merrill Ventilator low cut trail shoes.

BTW, "State Of The Market" means what the true market of that genre looks like. It should be fairly inclusive, like Will Reitveld's comprehensive report on light down jackets.
Back to work guys.

Edited by Danepacker on 08/31/2011 21:25:12 MDT.

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