4th Season Northern Midwest

[Steve Collins]

Trying to squeeze everything into my pa’lante pack for a 2/3 night 40 mile trip. Temps in the mid 20s during the day and mid teens at night. A couple inches of snow expected and maybe an inch or so on the ground, nothing requiring snowshoes or most likely micro spikes.

No cook meals but alcohol stove for coffee and soup if needed plus extra fuel as a precaution.

6’4” 250lbs

I’m sitting on a plane so I don’t have all my weights but that doesn’t really matter too much to me. What am I missing?

<span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>Pack</span>
Clothing
– Montbell Mirage puffy
– Montbell down pants
– Wool long underwear
– Patagonia R1 hoodie
– Zpacks overmitts
– Extra knee high wool ski socks
– Goosefoot down booties with DCF overshoes (3.8oz-ish)
– Black Rock balaclava
– Black Rock down mitts
– Frogg Toggs jacket
Gear
– Solplex with 2 snow pegs and 4 carbon pegs
– 30 degree EE Enigma (950 treated)
– Big Agnes SLX (modified)
– Sea to summit pillow
– 1/8” CCF pad (full length)
– Small piece of lightweight pack towel (for condensation/frost)
– Cook kit (starlyte, 8oz Fuel, homemade fosters pot with stand, lighter & matches)
– Petzl elight + (spare battery)
– 2 x 1L smart water bottles
– Toilet kit (duce, TP, 1oz sanitizer)
– FAK w/ glasses and repair kit (3.25oz)
– Micro spikes (maybe – depends on ice)
– Map, compass & whistle
– Locus Gear poles w/ snow baskets

<span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>Wear</span>
– Solomon softshell tights
– Mons Royal wool boxers
– Orange hat with ear flaps
– Altra King MT (size 15)
– Dirty girls (size dang)
– Darn tough knee high socks
– Long sleeve wool shirt
– Montbell UL Thermawrap
– Possum down gloves
– Sunglasses
– Garmin 5x
– iPhone 7

Thanks folks!

[Steve Collins]

Did I offend everyone when I said I’m not as concerned about the specific weights? :)

I would appreciate some feedback, I land in Chicago at 9pm tomorrow and plan to run home and get on the road by midnight. Thanks!

[Ken Thompson]

Have you tried this setup before? I wouldn’t try mid teens with a 30degree quilt.

[Steve Collins]

Thanks Ken!

Nope, I sure haven’t. Plan is to wear all my clothes. If I stake the sides low I’m sure it will be in the low twenties inside – which is chilly but doable for me.

I could replace the thermawrap with an Arc’teryx Atom LT?

[Ken Thompson]

Well I am certainly interested in how it turns out.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

With your 30 F. quilt/bag, Montbell pants and puffy and balaclava you should be fine. My overfilled 20 F. WM Megalite bag, EB puffy and pants 7 light fleece balaclava I’m fine at 10 F. in my TT Moment DW.

[Steve Collins]

Thanks Eric, that’s what I figured. I’ll let you guys know how it turns out.

Anything else I may be missing from list above?  Other than food, can’t forget that.

[Steve Collins]

So just as a followup. It was cold, around mid-teens and single digits with the wind. A 10 or 20 degree Quilt would have been better. I survived but even as a warm sleeper I was cold.

Lesson learned!  Thanks for the insight.

Steve

[Edward John M]

So this was cold while wearing both jackets and the insulated pants to sleep in?

Was it cold from the top down or the bottom up?

I still have a lot to learn about subzero gear so any insights are a help

[Steve Collins]

Definitely more cold from the bottom up. I used a very thin (1/8”) CCF pad underneath my insulated inflatable and I should have used a heavier CCF pad. The wind was also gusting and I had drafts under the edge of the solplex I was using.

I’ve used a similar setup in a fully enclosed single wall shelter and was toasty warm in similar conditions. Obviously YMMV but I’ve found in the winter in real cold everyone can handle things a bit differently. Bring more and slowly back off gear/clothes once you know what works best for you is the best advice I could provide.

[Rob P]

As an alternative, you could keep the 1/8 ccf pad and get a winter rated inflatable pad instead of your 3 season pad…or you could always augment both, too.  Always fun to experiment if you can find good deals.

[Larry Swearingen]

I’ve tried similar tests and was definitely cold from the ground up.  It worked better to put the

CCF pad on top of the air pad though.  Not sure why.

Larry

[Steofan M]

Replace the Dirty Girl gaiters with something taller to keep what snow there may be from sticking, melting and freezing to your Darn Tough knee socks.

 

[Steve Collins]

Rob – so many sleeping pads so little time. It had an R value of 5, so I definitely could find a warmer one.

Larry – I’ve heard this but never tried it. Worth a shot.

Steofan – my soft shell tights tuck right down under the dirty girls but because I was hit with more snow than expected I should have taken my longer Montbell ones. Good reminder.

[Matt Dirksen]

“CCF pad on top of the air pad though.  Not sure why”

In order to reduce the flow of heat most effectively, one should layer the pads so the pad material with the highest “R per Inch” is the closest to the heat source.

While a ThermaRest X-Therm has a purported R value of 5.7, it is also 2.5 inches thick. Therefore it has an R per inch value of 2.28/inch. An 1/8″ ccf pad has a total R value of .475, but it actually has a higher R per inch rating of 3.8. Generally speaking, this is why most folks who put the pad on top experience less heat loss. (It must also be noted that any moving around on an air mattress will grossly impact it’s R value. A CCF pad on top dampens the “impact” of the movement.

 

[Steve Collins]

Matt – makes sense to me, I just meant it has never been intuitive in the field so I’ll have to give it a shot.

Considering the high on Saturday is 8F I think I’ll have an opportunity fairly soon!

Steve

[Matt Dirksen]

Good luck, my Friend.

8f is pretty damn cold. I hope you have something to protect your face with, given those temps.

I can’t imagine what the low is. And given the numerous sub-freezing days we’ve all had, I’m sure the ground is quite frozen now.

Being that as it may, getting as much insulation underneath you should be of the utmost importance.

(Fwiw, I recently noticed sandwiching an air mattress with 1/8″ ccf pads has helped out significantly with colder weather. While I can’t say that it’s better than simply putting the two ccf pads on top, I honestly think it has to do with allowing the air mattress to retain most of its thickness, which ultimately helps with the overall system R value-whatever it may be.)

[Steve Collins]

@Matt – absolutely. Black Rock Balaclava and a thermal buff + fleece cap to keep the heat in.

I hate to carry the weight (bulk more than anything) but I could take 1/8” and my z rest or 1/2” CCF.  I’ll gice it a go.

Steve

[Edward John M]

If bulk is the problem then my solution won’t work for you; but I use the larger RidgeRest as my basic insulation layer, it being the best bang for gram in terms of insulation.

I use very thin foam as a sacrificial layer also but I have had good results layering the 3mm plastic backed foam on both sides of a RidgeRest also. The 3mm plastic backed foam is a leftover from laying a floating floor and we often take extra sheets of it cut to fit under the tent floor

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