thinnning silicone w/ laquer thinner?

[robert k]

I know silicone caulk or Silnet can be thinned with a number of products ( mineral spirits etc )to make it more flowable. Question is, can it be thinned with laquer thinner without damaging the silnylon or threads? Experience anyone? The reason I'm asking is that I have access to both GE silicone in a tube and laquer thinner and if the thinned mixture works it would save me a trip to the hardware store.

[Jerry Adams]

Isn't laquer thinner acetone?

Isn't that a lot nastier than mineral spirits?

You could test it on a piece of scrap

Or just make a trip to the hardware store and get mineral spirits

[Ken Thompson]

With the Permatex flowable windshield silicone being readily available and inexpensive, I don't know why anyone would want to go through the effort of thinning. It is odorless also. Did my Duomid in the house. Lacquer thinner is nasty stuff. It is not acetone either. Spend $5 and get a tube.

[Mike M]

you can get odorless mineral spirits very cheaply (Walmart, Ace Hardware, etc) if you want to thin your silicone- works well and you can play w/ ratio

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Buy ODORLESS mineral spirits (not lacquer thinner!) and mix accordingly:

1. for seam sealing > 3 parts mineral spirits to 1 part GE silicone II caulk

2. for coating a tent fly (to prevent "mist thru")> 5 parts mineral spirits to 1 part GE Silicone II caulk

NOTES:

all ratios are by volume

Mix in a screw cap jar so it can be shaken hard. Shake well every 3 minutes while using.

[Ivo Vanmontfort]

Shaking works faster.
Yes, you can play with the ratio.
My neighbor has used a 1/15 mix for coating his MLD Grace Solo Spinntex .97 tarp
http://dzjow.wordpress.com/2011/04/11/applying-a-new-silicone-coating-to-the-tarp/

[Jack Marler]

I used the formula that Eric posted yesterday. It went on great, looks and feels like it did the job, I’m going to test it Thursday after work.
Lessons learned…
Don’t try to push the caulk out of the caulk tube with your wife’s wooden kitchen spoon (real bad plan)
Don’t use a snap on lid to do the mixing
Newman

[Sam Farrington]

If you mean acetone, no. Tried it, and a million other things.
The problem is that when Silicone is mixed with pain thinner or stove fuel, it does not go into solution, but just forms a "slurry," and loses much of its adhesiveness.
It is for that reason perhaps, that many choose Permatex, even though it is too thick to do the kind of job that would result from two or three thin applications of silicone in solution. Would look a lot better and weigh a lot less, also.

If anyone comes up with something reasonably safe that will dissolve the silicone, please let us know. Thanks.

[Sam Farrington]

Found today that Sea to Summit is distributing a new seam sealer, "Ultra Seam Sil," and bought some.

It is at least as flowable as Permatex, probably moreso, and does not appear to have the same tendency to form little beeds or clumps.

Have not thoroughly tested it, but it looks promising. It is also advertised to work on PU coated fabric. Something like this was necessary for the WE products that are coated with PU ("Polyether") on one side, and Silicone on the other.

If it has good adhesion, it may end our affair with the slurry. Hope so.

[James Marco]

Laquer thinner is generally a mix of several solvents. Acetone is just one component. Naptha, benzene, and a bunch of other…it will varry by batch.

Acetone is a solvent all by itself. I never tried it on PE, or nylon. It just eats
into many plastics. (One of the ingredients in styrene glues.)

Silicone will mix with mineral spirits or white gas. As was pointed out, it is more of a coloid than a true mixture…sort'a like mayonaise. It will work on siliconized fabrics. I use about 5-10 to 1 for seam sealing. About 15-30 to 1 for recoating fabric. A lot will depend on the thickness of the weave, how well used, and stretched the fabric is, how heavy the origonal coating was, any stains on the cloth, etc. Both sides is recomended. Yes, stirring or shaking the mix while using it can be important. But, I have left a cup or so in a can an it gelled through out.
The bottom was only slightly thicker after a week. Not sure how important, but I had anticipated a surface skin, which did not happen.

Doing the top portion of a tent or tarp will add about 1000mm of head to it. This is a good indication that it works well to minimize misting on single skin shelters. However, the condensation can be bad because it will seal the fabric, not just add to the water proofing. YMMV.

[robert k]

Fisrt off, thanks to all for your insights. Not having a spare piece of silnylon to experiment applying a silicone/laquer thinner mixture to , I bought some Permatex flowable silicone windshield sealer. I used it unmixed and applied it directly from a small hole in the supplied nozzle. FWIW calling this product " flowable" is a bit of a stretch; its consistency is that of very thick honey. As a previous poster noted IMO it would work better if it were thinned to the point where it would penetrate into the seam via capillary action. However, one can lay down a thin bead along the seam and then smooth it into the seam with one's finger. Dries adequately overnight without a real sticky residue or odor.

[Paul Hatfield]

This is my first experience seam sealing. I have a bottle of Klean Strip Odorless Mineral Spirits which I purchased about 3 years ago, but just opened for the first time today. I was expecting a clear, thin liquid. But instead it's a white liquid that is about the consistency of cream or whole milk. Should odorless mineral spirits be a white, milky liquid?

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Paul and all

I have no idea what was originally in your bottle of Klean Strip Odorless Mineral Spirits, but I am VERY sure it was meant to be clear! Sounds to me as though what you have now should be disposed of carefully at the local council tip! Sounds … toxic.

Permatex Flowable is good stuff: I use it myself.

The best stuff for thinning most silicone sealants is a silicone oil such as Dow Corning make. However, getting hold of it is rather difficult in a consumer environment. Mixing it in is also difficult.

The problem with most available 'solvents' is that they contain some (maybe 5%) water, and that water catalyses the silicone into a fast cure before you have got it on your gear. So often the stuff has partly cured before you use it and it won't stick to the fabric.

Cheers

[Franco Darioli]

This is how I do it :
thinning silicone

[Derek M.]

White gas and Naphtha will also work well, if you have either of those on hand.

I used Naphtha to dilute the silicone I used to seam seal my TarpTent Double Rainbow. It worked like a charm.

[Jerry Adams]

I got some "odorless spirits" that looked like that, sort of watery.

It would probably be good for cleaning paint brushes.

I didn't even bother trying using it to dilute silicone. You could try it on a test piece and see how it works.

You want the "odoress spirits" : )

Permatex Flowable Sealant sounds good too although I haven't tried it

[James Marco]

Absolutly not. Mineral spirits are exactly that, or in more modern vocabulary: distilled petrolium products. As such, they have been in the ground for a few thousand years. A few more in a sealed bottle will NOT effect it. I used some that was about 10 years old with no problems. It was slightly yellow, but basically clear. Other manufacturors may mix other volitiles or odd oils in it as it is made. It *might* pick up a bit of water, but there isn't any reason for this to turn creamy. It will react slowly with oxygen, but in a sealed container, this is self limiting.

Now, I have used the wrong solvent in some Deft lacqure finish. I added about a 1/2 cup to a 3/4 can that got creamy textured and hardened the can. This was a clear solvent mismatch. Sometimes, too much thinner in varnish (old style spar varnish, not poly) it will get creamy or turn into a gell after a couple days; it never drys properly.

Kerosine, Gasoline, WG, mineral spirits are all the same and will mix with each other. Waxes will mix with mineral spirits and gasoline. I always use mineral spirits with silicone because it dries out rather slowly, giving me plenty of time time to work it in. Basically, the evaporation of the mineral spirits will leave the silicone unprotected and open to water for curing. Very little water will penetrate the oil, so it keeps it from hardening, though technically it is not a mixture.

[Jerry Adams]

But there is a new product called odorless mineral spirits that looks different. Like "cream". Maybe it will work to dilute silicone. I'de suggest trying it first and be skeptical.

A few years ago I bought some odorless spirits that looked the same as regular mineral spirits – clear – that worked fine

[steven franchuk]

I would not recommend Klean Strip Odorless Mineral Spirits. I tried Kleen Strip in the past and it is a very poor solvent for Silicone. The reason is that in order to make it odorless they removed most of the solvents that are normally in regular mineral Spirits. The silicone never dissolved into it It was just clumps of silicone floating in the klean Strip. According to reviews on amazon.com it has a 1 star rating (22 people). 2 gave it a 2 start rating. No one gave it more than 2 stars.

I then tried White gas and that worked much better. The Silicone actualy did slowly desolve in it. I would expect regular mineral Spirits to work better since it has a higher consantration of solvents in it.

[Paul Hatfield]

Thanks for pointing out the abysmal reviews on Amazon.com. The reviews say "thick and white like milk"… which is exactly what I found today on the 2-year-or-so-old container that I opened today. The one is have is branded as Klean-Strip Odorless Mineral Spirits… I don't believe it is branded as "Green". I bought it at Lowes.

Unfortunately there are many recommendations on the forums here to use odorless mineral spirits to dilute silicone.

[Jerry Adams]

"Unfortunately there are many recommendations on the forums here to use odorless mineral spirits to dilute silicone"

Several years ago I bought something called odorless spirits that looked just like regular and worked fine

Recently a bought some and it was the milky stuff

I think they recently came out with a new product that's different

I don't think white gas would be as good because it's more flamable

[Tom D.]

Most all of the instructions that I've found for "DIY Silnylon" or "DIY Seam Sealer" say to use odorless mineral spirits, so I picked up some from Walmart. It was Klean Strip Odorless, and it was a very clear liquid (still is, I just checked). I mixed it in an old blender that I use for garage type stuff and it worked great. There were no chunks left after about 1.5 minutes of blending. I sprayed it using a cheap HVLP sprayer from Harbor Freight and used it to waterproof a polyester tent I had. I had no issues with clogs or chunks of silicone coming through the sprayer. I tested the tent for several days in the last major storm that we had and it seems to have done the job (the tent had serious problems keeping the water out before that).

Maybe it was using the blender that enabled me to get it mixed well, but I've since used the odorless mineral spirits to make seam sealer for my Gatewood Cape (per Six Moon Designs instructions) and it worked fine.

As retiredjerry said, white gas is very flammable. Its a very effective solvent, but you would essentially be mixing the silicone with pure gasoline.

[James Marco]

"But there is a new product called odorless mineral spirits that looks different. Like "cream". Maybe it will work to dilute silicone. I'de suggest trying it first and be skeptical."
That is probably more of a water based cleaner. Offhand, I know that mixing water and mineral spirits will turn white after a lot of shaking. It makes a coloid of the water into tiny bubbles with different refractory/reflectance properties. Perhaps they add a bit of detergent to help it stay mixed. Avoid it. Likely this was done to keep the big box stores in compliance for VOC (volatiles) going into the atmosphere. They don't care if it works or not, it saves them from being taxed. They also do not sell oil based paints. Their deck paint, house paint and interior trim paint are all latex and last about 1/5 as long as good oil based paints. A typical oil based deck paint will last about 20-25 years. Latex will wear through in 4-5 years. I avoid those places(Lows and Home Depot.)

"A few years ago I bought some odorless spirits that looked the same as regular mineral spirits – clear – that worked fine"
If it is touted as thinner, and not cleaner, it will work. It uses a less volatile component. But I would never call it odorless. Not sure where that term started…

[Jerry Adams]

I just tried some

The silicone turned into a glob – partially dissolved but then it partly cured. Definitely do not use this.

If your "mineral spirits" are clear, it should work, if they're milky, it won't work.

It said on the package it can be used to thin or clean. It may work in it's intended application.

It said it was not flamable. I tried burning it and it does not burn. I also use mineral spirits to light fires and charcoal, and this product does not work for that application either.

I think it's for regulatory reasons, to reduce air pollution. Admirable goal. If it works to thin and clean oil paint then mission accomplished.

There's another product, "charcoal lighter", that says it's made from mineral spirits. I bet that would work to dillute silicone.

(Or just use Permatex : )

[Dale Wambaugh]

If you want to know what is in a product, simply search on the product name and MSDS.

Here is what lacquer thinner is made of: http://www.constructionmidwest.com/msds/Lacquer%20Thinner.pdf

I would say if I wanted to ruin synthetic fabric, this would be a very good start.

Stick to the mineral spirits, wear gloves and have good ventilation.

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