Wet rain jacket

[Kathleen B]

All these comments have been very helpful. The eVENT jacket sounds like it might just be the (pricey) ticket for really deflecting rain. The pit zip issue is perplexing. I’ve never zipped the pit zips in my Precip jacket because I need/want the ventilation. But heat rises, right? Pit zips are under the arms. How much heat and water vapor really get out and how much cool air really comes in? In other words, with something as fabulous-sounding as eVENT fabric, are the pit zips expendable?

[Dale Wambaugh]

Pit zips work– any venting helps. Your motion moves the air around. Heat rises, but hiking with your arms swinging will move a lot of air in and out of your shell. If you can free the bottom hem (as in no waist belt), you can get a real breeze going.

Somebody here or on the backpacking gear test organization did a test with different rain gear. He wore the same wicking undershirt and went for a long run, weighing the shirt before and after to see how much moisture accumulated in the shirt with a particular garment. The factor that made the different was venting. Breathable fabrics made a difference, but were all paled by simply opening pit zips, vented back cowls, etc.

My armchair estimation of effective fabrics go from membrane stuff like Gore-Tex to eVENT style fabrics to micro-porous coatings to fully coated fabrics with silnylon or polyurethane. Any or all of the above could have a mix of physical features to help vent and improve the feel of the garment in use: pit zips, pocket vents, front or rear cowl vents, hem and waist drawstrings, and Velcro-adjustable cuffs. And you get the factors of weight, cost and durability in the mix too. Makes it fun to pick something that works when you are picking $100-$200+ garments, eh?

[larry savage]

The Gill event jacket I mentioned a bunch of posts back has pit zips.

[Kathleen B]

I see the Gill has pit zips, but no hood, and one review said it’s not very packable. Larry – what’s your experience with packability and what do you use for a rain hat?

[Kathleen B]

I just got this:

Hi Kathleen,

The forums appear to have generated a bit of interest in an eVent jacket with pit zips, so if we receive sufficient orders we may be doing a special run of them in December. If you are interested in placing an order, the cost would be US$30 extra so a total of US$250.

Regards,
Merewyn Ellis

INTEGRAL DESIGNS
5516 – 3rd St SE
Calgary, Alberta T2H 1J9

P – 403 640 1445
F – 403 640 1444
E – [email protected]
http://www.integraldesigns.com

[larry savage]

My size XL packs down to a 4″ x 6″ roll, it weighs a liitle under 1#. To compare my size large Patagonia Rain Shadow packs down about an inch smaller. I’m not rolling the beans out of these, a little loose.
I use a OR Seattle Sombrero or the older Sitka Sombrero.
The Gill and most cycling style jackets are cut with longer tails to protect your back when bent over which I find nice {I’m long waisted }. I think performance bike has this jacket and they have a store in Puget Sound where you could try one for fit. E-mail me an address and I’ll send you mine to play with. Performance has this jacket on sale for $119.00 in limited sizes. I will be honest that the ID might be a better cut for wearing with a pack for you. This is why I think you should try one on.

[Brad Rogers]

“I learned yesterday that Integral Designs will make their eVENT jackets with pit zips. Reference this email from them”

Thanks for the info. I learn somthing new everyday.

[Patrick Taylor]

Did anyone ever provide their experience with Marmot rain jackets? I just purchased the Marmot Oracle…

[Vick Hines]

I agree with Dale and the others who suggest using a poncho. In extreme wet and cold down to freezing I have had the best results with a poncho over a w/b jacket. These days I use a cape because it forms a cone instead of a flapping envelope and stays down without messing with a waist strap while wearing a pack. The cape – or poncho- covers the gap between the pack and my back – a major point of water intrusion and of condensation. The jacket keeps my arms from getting soaked – especially when using poles. For the jacket, I have gotten away from the high dollar stuff and use a cheap Durafab jacket with an extended “skirt” to my knees.7 ounces. Durafab is the most breathable stuff I have ever used. Not for bushwhacking, though.

[Vlad Putin]

All I used was army ponchos for twenty years. For general backpacking and camping, IMO they are superior. They are cheaper, they actually are more airy than rainsuits made of any material, Gore Tex, eVENT, whatever. When you push it hard on the trail, you are going to sweat like a pig no matter what you do and with rainsuits, its harder to stay “aired out” on the trail.

For me, I found Gore Tex rainsuit to be particularly intolerable during the rains in the hot summer. Id rather have a poncho.

Another advantage of a good poncho is that you dont have to carry a waterproof pack cover. You just throw the thing over the top of your pack and walk. That saves a little weight.

When buying ponchos, avoid the ones made out of vinyl…they are waterproof but cheap and tear easily, as well as uncomfortable next to the skin. The vinyl ones are OK for stationary camping, but not backpacking.

I just wish the US military still issued a poncho like they used to issue…they had like a rubber type coating on them…they were awesome…best poncho ever made. Probably a little heavy by UL standards, but those things worked.

I dont have a clue what modern brands of ponchos are really waterproof versus “water repellant” or “water resistant.” Vinyly is waterproof, but those are the cheapo crap ponchos you dont want to buy. You want one that is totally waterproof…non-breathable, but of good quality.

Good poncho plus Gore Tex lined boots is a good combination for walking.

Vlad

[Vlad Putin]

For cold wet weather, what might work well for a backpacker is layers of wool clothing wool long underwear, wool pants and wool shirt, wool socks, Gore Tex bootliners in your boots.

Or you could go synthetic long underwear (polypro, capilene, etc.) if you cant stand wool next to your skin. And then wear wool pants and a wool shirt over the top of the synthetic long underwear.

If it suddenly warms up, you stop and take a break and change clothes. Remove the long underwear and just go with the wool pants and long sleeved shirt, unbuttoned for more ventilation.

Then throw a poncho over all of it for rain, sleet, freezing rain or wet snow.

One thing about that “Lighten Up” book by Don Ladigen I dont agree with is how he dismisses wool clothing for cold weather. Especially cold, wet climates like on the East coast. Yeah, wool is heavier than synthetics, but the stuff works better at keeping you warm in bad situations.

Vlad

[Ryan Jordan]

Here’s a recent article published here about poncho use.

If you have to hike (especially uphill) in very wet conditions, you’re going to get wet from perspiration, poncho or jacket. The argument has raged for years and still baffles me. In some conditions, you just … get … wet.

[Lee Davis]

I have been using a new style precip for the last year. 2 observations

1)The quality and newness of the DWR is really important to keep this jacket from “wetting out.” This is bugs me since I don’t have a dryer.

2)If I am exerting myself I have a tendency to get wet due to the relatively low breathability and high humidity in the south, but the jacket still keeps me warm.

I haven’t tried the other jackets they offer. The ID thru hiker jacket is on my wish list, but $250???

[Kathleen B]

I thought I'd dredge up this old thread that I started a year ago when I was new to BPL to report on the great success I've had with my new arrangement. Especially since there's another, current thread discussing rain jackets.

Yesterday I was again in 5-6 hours of steady rain and drizzle, about 2200' elevation gain, 35-40 degrees. I wore the same Montbell rain pants and the same long-sleeved Smartwool shirt, but this time I wore an ID eVENT rain jacket. There was a World of Difference. I was comfortable, warm, and dry on the whole trip. The small amount of perspiration quickly dissipated.

I did take an interim step, though, and bought the Montbell Peak rain jacket early last spring. It is an excellent rain jacket with very good breathability. The Peak is much better than the Precip which couldn't begin to hold a candle to it. Then I had an opportunity to buy the eVENT jacket secondhand, so throwing frugality and caution to the wind, I bought it.

My personal experience with the ID eVENT jacket on all the day trips and several backpack trips when I needed it, not just with yesterday's trip, is that the eVENT is even better than the Peak. Truly. I've actually posted the Peak for sale on the Gear Swap section (hint, hint).

The lesson I learned here is when dealing with the need for waterproofness as often as I do in the Pacific Northwest, just go for the gold.

[Donna C]

How about just wearing a short sleeved merino top underneath? Or maybe a poncho might be a better choice for you.

[Kathleen B]

Donna – I'd wondered the same thing about a l/s or s/s shirt. But after testing various combinations since last spring, the Precip just doesn't cut it for me for breathability and waterproofness, no matter what's underneath.

The Peak and ID eVENT work ever so much better. I also thought about the poncho, but I didn't need to get to that step because I'd already found this great combination that works. So I'm sticking with the l/s merino under the ID for drizzly winter weather.

It's part of my evolved system that I've picked up from other posters here which also includes wearing just the merino shirt and windshirt when I'm fairly certain it's not going to actually rain. That works well, even into the mid- 20's, as long as I'm moving. When I stop for a lunch break, I put on a vest OVER the merino and wind shirt for warmth. I haven't needed to pull out my Micropuff as much this winter, because this (new-to-me) system works so well.

[Mark Verber]

Hey Kathleen…

I had compared heavier eVENT jackets (before the lighter weight eVENT jackets hit the market). I found that the Peak with vents open worked better for me than the heavier eVENT jackets closed, but eVENT was better if I closed the vents on the Peak. When you compare the ID eVENT to the Montbell Peak, did you use the vents on Peak or were both jackets closed up?

Related question… are there specific ways that you found the ID jacket worked better… something like going up in 45F conditions there was no noticeable moisture accumulation in the YYY but a wet spot in the back with the ZZZ.

[Kathleen B]

Great questions, Mark! My opinion is more subjective than scientific, but here are some answers.

I always used the Precip and Peak with the pitzips open. I never closed them. In fact, no pitzips is what caused me to avoid the ID eVENT jacket until I had an opportunity to buy it second hand, shortly after I'd already sprung for the Peak.

I had an older Precip for years, and always wetted through during elevation gain (I do mostly day scrambles of between 2000' and 5000' gain). That meant a saturated back from perspiration, and a saturated midriff and upper arms, allegedly from both perspiration and overwhelmed system that wasn't really waterproof. My face would be hot and wet from perspiration, so that I frequently would leave the jacket unzipped and just overlapped, trying to be cooler but knowing I was allowing water in.

Then I got a new Precip last year with my REI rebate. I was still in "cheap mode." I was disappointed that I was just as hot and sweaty in the new jacket. The only improvement was the jacket was longer.

After haunting this site for months, and studying the information on your excellent website, by the way, I decided to get the Peak, even though eVENT got rave reviews. I decided on the Peak because it had pitzips and was cheaper than the ID. The Peak worked much better than the Precip. I didn't feel like a prune in a sauna by the time I summited, my back was only moist and not sopping, I didn't need to leave the jacket unzipped, and my arms and midriff were not wet at all.

A few months later I had the opportunity to buy the ID from another poster here. I even bought zippers thinking I would need to add the pitzips. After Saturday's 9-mile trip in total comfort, and similar previous day trips over the last few months, I'm a true believer of eVENT. The difference between the Peak and the ID are not as drastic as with the Precip. It just "seems" that I was dryer and more comfortable with the ID. I probably won't even install the pitzips.

Based on your questions, I may try the Peak again in similar conditions and pay more attention to the details. Also, I'll weigh the jackets tonight and report back.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Kathleen,

I don't know what condition the exterior DWR (Durable Water Repellant) was like on your Precip jacket but if in bad shape it might have affected breathability.

Sugestion: Take the jacket back to REI I get a credit for the Precip offender. Either spend it on something else at REI or on a new jacket/parka.

I've been using Cabela's Rainy River Gore-Tex Pac Lite rain suit for a season and found it very breathable and durable. No parka pit zips but I've never yet needed them, even in a Yosemite dounpour carrying a backpack. At $89. per piece (!!) that's less for a suit than the $200. for the Precip jacketalone. Plus Cabela's has the same warranty as REI…lifetime "within reason".

Eric

[Kathleen B]

Well, that was interesting. My Peak, size small, weighs 10.6 oz. The ID eVENT, size medium, weighs 9 oz. I stacked them on top of each other, matching seam to seam, and the size small Peak's sleeves are 1.5 inches longer, and the bottom is an inch longer, than the size medium ID. No wonder the medium didn't fit the guy who sold it. So Mark, I don't know if this is the same eVENT fabric that you've had experience with, because it is actually lighter (maybe because it's slightly smaller) than the Peak.

Eric, as for the DWR on the Precip, I figured it had worn off on the old one, although I'd nikwaxed it to death, so that's why I tried a new Precip. I don't think anything was wrong with the DWR on the new one. It just wasn't breathable enough for what I was demanding from it. It now rides in my trunk as an emergency rain jacket, along with an old primaloft sleeping bag and an unloved pack stuffed with crackers and peanut butter.

[Mark Verber]

Thanks for the update Kathleen. ID is using a lighter fabric than the eVENT jackets I tried in the past. The jackets I tried were smaller than my Peak, with the same (or less features), and weighted 40% more.

I am happy enough with the Peak that I will keep using it until I kill it (it only had one patch so far) and then I will most give an ID or Rab eVENT jacket a try.

[Author]

Posts