Speaking of light; wouldn’t sharing gear make our packs much lighter?

[Mitchell Ebbott]

I used to always share gear if I was going with other people. Lately I've realized it sometimes easier not to, especially if we're just headed out for a quick overnight. Logistically, being self-sufficient means we don't have to figure out what everyone wants for dinner, how much fuel we'll need, how to split costs, etc. I can just say "wanna to go backpacking?" and we can roll out.

On longer trips, where the extra weight matters more, I'll usually share a shelter (I have a 2 person mid) and stove. It's best for each person to have their own water filter. I find that if filling up water takes too much time, we'll end up carrying more water at a time just to avoid the hassle.

[Lori P]

"If I did not know the people I was going with very well, I would go alone! "

People who know each other well get separated, on purpose or accidentally, all the time.

I have a friend who managed to do this on the High Sierra Trail. We were coming up on the junction to the trail that goes uphill to the Alta trail. She stopped with another friend, each heading uphill at a short distance from each other, taking their packs with them due to the pack-stealing bears in that area, to take a leak. He came back down to the main trail. She attempted to take a shortcut to the trail and ended up on the other trail by going at a different angle – long story short, she was hiking to Wolverton not ever knowing she'd got off the wrong way. Another hiker told her which trail she was on and she ran back down to find us. She was angry at us for not looking for her – we had looked and walked up and down the trails, waited and waited and waited and waited… we waited at the trail junction, we waited at Mehrten creek just a quarter mile away eating lunch and filtering water, waited and waited… finally figured she would either be at Wolverton (we had a car there) or Lodgepole (the trails connect to that too and we had a car there) or she was just hurt and we needed to get a ranger anyway. Or, that she would catch up to us. She did.

I was search and rescue – sometimes people just freak out and make bad decisions. We looked for a brother, cousin, etc more than once.

Hundreds of trips under my belt – no predicting who will do what. Sometimes they promise and agree to the safety plan of keeping the group together and fail at it. Just the way it goes. Husbands and wives sometimes hike a mile apart – anything can happen to one of them to delay or stop them in their tracks, the other would never know and keep hiking to the next night's camp. See that a hundred times as well….

I embrace uncertainty while expecting the best. Fortunate that nothing serious has happened yet (knock on wood).

[Jennifer Mitol]

a) i really don't like sharing a tent with someone other than a significant other. UL shelters are a TEENY bit too TEENY for that. I really like to go to bed early, read a bit and chill before drifting off to sleep.

b) I don't want to have to eat what you want to eat. And I don't want to have to argue about it, either.

c) and what Lori said

what else is there to share?

[Bob Gross]

Many years ago I used to lead group trips. Every trip was a little different, but typically the trip would include a central commissary that had breakfasts, dinners, all cook gear, and related group camp stuff. Those trips worked very well. Newbies did not need to worry so much about food and gear that way, although everybody had their own lunch food. The group cooking and eating atmosphere added something positive.

I just had to make sure that I had appropriate stoves, fuel, cook pots, etc. After a while, I learned how to plan menus that everybody tolerated and most people liked. Besides, I would hike them hard enough that they all got hungry enough to eat.

People later told me that they would have never gone out that way into bear country except with a group.

–B.G.–

[BlackHatGuy]

"what else is there to share?"

Cracker Jacks.

[Katherine .]

If only I had such problems! I'm planning mostly solo trips this year for lack of local partners.

w/my one partner in WA, we like to set rendez-vous spots and then split up. So we need to be self sufficient. We shared her PLB in theory — at least for the parts we were together.

I'd only share a shelter with someone other than husband/kids, if a good friend, or say my cousin, were afraid of sleeping not right next to another human.

If I had a parter or two I were really well matched with I'd consider sharing food/stove/water treatment/first aid kit. Cause it's nice to share a meal! But for the FAK I'd want all of us to review together what's in it.

[Stephen M]

I spend about 20 nights a year sharing tents with buddies, cooking and water filtration
is shared also.

[d k]

Certainly I share gear with my significant other; and it's always been our practice to share non-shelter gear with the group when possible when we backpack with others, at least to some extent. Sometimes it's easier if you hike apart to have our own water treatment. The last couple trips I've been on with friends I shared the tent (TT Squall) as well as food/cookset/water treatment, but it was with close friends.

That said, I'm working on solo stuff since my SO is not able to do any significant backpack trips these days, so I may have to branch out on my own, or at least go with people I am not bosom buddies with. I have assembled a solo cookset but it could be improved, and I'm also looking at lighter shelter options though I have a LH Solo that I like in most ways.

[r m]

Two cents of some one who hasn't yet down any UL hiking, though aspires to eventually:

I thought it was a given you share things, though my trips are rarely just regular hiking trips – we may share shelter, stove, we always share climbing gear (each person carrying their own personal ropes would be insanity).

But, I get the not sharing thing, I get the personal space thing. I might be warmer being the middle spoon between two men as we get by with a light quilt, all sharing the same p bottle. But, unless thats the best way of achieving the objective I'm not all that interested in doing it. The guys who do it…AFAIK they're not especially interested in spooning either. But, its approaches like that which allow new ground to be covered, moving faster and lighter than before enables new climbs to be put up that weren't possible before, or old climbs to be done in speeds that weren't possible.

The stakes are high, people often don't come back, or come back with parts missing. Trips may more resemble a form of torture than a fun activity.

Personally I like a lighter pack so I can increase the enjoyment. Thats the thing I construct most of my trips around maximising in some fashion. That's really why I often take my own shelter, and warm enough clothes that I can stop, and warm enough sleeping systems so I get a good sleep, and my own stove so i dont have to wait, and nice food.

All our trips sit somewhere on the luxury to sufferfest scale, and bringing all your own kit just moves it a little bit towards luxury.

[Bob Gross]

For one trip last year, two of us had to plan whether we were going to carry a satellite communicator for the two of us, or one per person. One per person would be handy if we got separated and needed to communicate with each other.

–B.G.–

[Mitchell Ebbott]

Bob, what did you decide?

[Bob Gross]

We discussed our intentions for the trip and decided that we would never be separated too far, so we took only one satellite communicator. If we had thought that we might be scouting or roaming more independently, then we probably would have carried two.

–B.G.–

[Jake D]

I only share gear when I hike with my GF..And that is really only tent and cooking gear. We still tend to bring our own food of personal taste. otherwise i'm fully self sufficient because I tend to meet up with people on the spot and don't know what they will or won't have. I don't want someone forgetting something to be my problem.

was on the Long Trail and a pair of climbers going the other direction stayed at a shelter with us and had lost their 3rd person due to an injury. They still had food for 3 because they had packed it all in bulk NOLS style and had a LOT of food.

[Theron Rohr]

I didn't read through this whole thread but in response to the OP I noticed this trend towards self sufficiency myself when I got back into backpacking in recent years. Back when I was a scout in the '80s we all shared gear of course. I remember we had giant flashlights, full size Trangia stoves and old-school tents and sleeping bags. But because we shared I don't think the weight was all that bad. Nowadays I'm packing with a club where we're all independent adults but I think the real answer is "because we can". Modern gear is so light that it's easier to just be self sufficient than to go to the trouble of finding partners to share with. And the good part about that is you can afford to take risks with people you don't know well because even if they flake out there is minimal damage to your own plans.

[James Couch]

"People who know each other well get separated, on purpose or accidentally, all the time."

I do realize it happens all the time, but it is a question of group dynamics, leadership and decision making. This is something that rarely happens to climbers for example. Climbers are used to working as a team and sticking together.

In 40 years of hiking and climbing I have never had a situation where I or may partners have become separated.

[Jake D]

I had a climbing partner bail a few hours into the day and left me to go find other people to climb with for the rest of the day. we no longer talk. As you said that rarely happens and is not a quality I accept so it was 1 strike deal.

Luckily, I had my own rope, draws and other gear that I asked other groups if I could join in on routes they were doing and people were nice enough to let me climb with them.

[George F]

A group of us went on a week long trip a few years back, with the idea that everybody would cook a group dinner one night. We were healthy young men with appetites to match and packed hearty dinners. One guy bailed the night before his dinner, opting for a different route. It turned out he was planning one ramen per person that night and was scared to serve it, leaving us on our own instead. We had enough extra to scrape together a meal so hunger wasn't an issue, but it was very uncool.

This shows the two biggest issues with sharing, trust and communication. If someone bails of course you are short, but even if everyone sticks there could still be problems with tents that are too small or not right for the terrain, cooking pots that are too small, not enough fuel, etc. If I am out with my wife we share, but I know exactly what is in each pack and we aren't going to go our separate ways. For other group trips, with the weight of todays gear, I would just as soon pack a full kit and know I am set for the trip ahead.

[Eli Zabielski]

I've been on many group trips for the weekend or for the week. We always share cooking and shelter gear, and almost always share breakfast and dinner meals. There has never been a problem.

I don't really get the anti-social vibe I've seen on BPL when this topic comes up. When we plan a group trip there is never even a suggestion that everyone should bring their own stuff.

[Jake D]

Depends on the group Eli.. you may have a good group that is very organized that can trust each other to have enough gear/food for everyone. Not everyone eats the same stuff either.

I know for me that if i'm going with someone other than my GF then we are either meeting early in the AM or up at the trailhead and the first time i see inside their pack is at camp. For me my base weight is small enough for me that I go for 4-5 days started at max 25lb and going down from there as food/fuel is used.

[Bob Shaver]

Kat is right that some critical analysis should be applied, and some weight could be saved by sharing. Her reasons why we don't share are spot on:

That's how I learned to do it.

I need to be self sufficient. (control freak plus not trusting your partners)

That won't save me much weight (compared with not having control of the stuff and having a partner who fails to bring something)

The difference does not break my back. Kat is right, that is not how we approach saving weight when we take a razor blade instead of a 2 oz knife.

I need my 5" blade. OK, I need a real knife, and I don't want you using it, because you'll lose it, break it, or get it dirty and not clean it.

I have shared stuff in the past, and it sometimes worked out well, sometimes not. We used to have a community cook set and three or four people would eat together. We shared the pots, fire grill (we didn't use stoves) cooking spoons, condiments. We didn't share tents because we didn't take tents. We used tube tents made of plastic. This usually worked out well, but if the person planning meals screwed up, everyone wasn't happy with the food.

Some items are needed for an individual to survive if they get lost, so its not safe to share one item among many peope: fire starter, whistle, map, compass. I'd probably put a knife in that category.

Sometimes its not the need to be self sufficient, its the fact that your partners are unknown quantities and might not bring what they are supposed to, might have crappy versions of their gear, or not even show up.

These days when I share gear, its cooking with a partner, and sharing the stove, fuel, and cookset and food, plus water filter. I only do that if I bring the food, because I don't trust another to do the food. I now have a free standing and a non-freestanding tent that are both light weight and actually big enough for two people. If my wife is on the trip, we share the tent and cook gear, but I carry it all, so its a weight saving for her.

I'd be fine with sharing sun block, first aid kit, toothpaste, tent, cooking gear, water filter, bug spray. Makes total sense.

part of the reluctance to share is due to being a control freak. I want to control the essential items, period. I guess that is a flavor of "self reliant". Do I want to share a knife? "No. You brought a razor blade instead of a knife, so go cut your salami with your razor blade." When someone wants to borrow my lighter, or my drinking cup to use as a measuring cup, when it happens day after day I get tired of it. Its being a burden on others.

I had a couple of scouts not bring lunch food on a week long trip, because they knew that others would bring too much food and would be giving it away. Their mistake was revealing their plan. After I knew their plan, I'd give my dog extra beef jerky whenever they were around. Not sharing when I could have. The flip side of self reliance is not to be a burden on others.

Another reason to not share a tent is "I snore and I don't want to inconvenience you." or "you snore and I want some distance from you." Another is "I stink", or "you stink." Another is "you have food in the tent that the bears will be coming after." Also "after hearing you talk for 10 hours today, I just want some distance from you." another is "I'm going to be peeing into a bottle tonight at 3 AM and I'd like some privacy and to not be bumped." Lots of good reasons to not share a tent.

[Adrian Swanson]

I'm going to develop what Jake D and Dan M said. It turns out this is pretty long.

I annually (at least) go on a backcountry trip with 3 or 4 companions I've known for years. Wind River Range 2015 will be our sixth undertaking. In that time, we've adjusted to a couple philosophies and techniques to hiking together. Meals are planned in advance and divided equally–each gets a breakfast and dinner. Snacks/lunch is carried by each individual (to eat at his own pace). Water is boiled in a 2L pot for rehydrating a meal for everyone. Tarps/tents are shared. Hiking is done generally at one's own pace, but we often find ourselves hiking at the same pace since our fitness is equivalent. We share first aid, map, fuel, map/compass, water purification, bear bag, and toothbrush (just kidding). Friend A takes the pot, Friend B takes the tarp, etc.

Looking at my usual (near) SUL packing list, there are few places to cut grams hiking with a partner(s). My 11oz 8.5 x 10 tarp/line/stakes is split 2 ways. Were we to use our pot with Esbit instead of a canister, we'd save weight on my stove set up. Sawyer mini? ~2oz split 2 ways (or 4). Dr. Bronners? <1oz. Bear bag? <2oz. All and all, I could save about 10oz from my pack. It doesn't look like much at about a 10% savings, but, considering that there is only ~24 ounces that isn't for ONLY me (pack, clothes, quilt, pad, water storage, spoon, toothbrush) it becomes a more significant cut.

Granted, if you've got a 1oz cook system (current thread on another BPL forum right now), it's lighter for everyone to bring their own. But, if you usually use a .9L ti pot, you save some weight by boiling twice as much water at once. Similarly if your cuben tarp set up is 7oz for one person, you won't save weight by moving to a lightweight tent or 'mid. But if your usual solo tarp fits two (like mine) you save some weight.

I'm seeing opinions dividing mainly on one line:
Trust

My companions and I can go on trail and share some weight because I know that friend A isn't going to mix tomorrow's oatmeal with his trailmix, and I know that friend B is going to be judicious with the fuel. Friend C keeps the soap handy on his pack and friend D is going to be d*mn sure the whiskey bottle doesn't leak.

If anyone else in this thread were to meet with me tomorrow at the Bowman Lake trailhead in Glacier for a 5 day trek in Glacier, I would not be sure that he/she had maximized calories/oz, brought enough fuel to cook our food, packed the soap to be easily reached, or preferred bourbon or scotch. Nor would I know if he/she brought the map, remembered an ice tool, or would show up at the right time.

Finally–those of my companions who aren't very ultralight in their gear lists stand to gain even more–sharing a tarp when he would likely have brought a tent? That's a huge gain. Sharing my Sawyer mini when he would have brought his MSR pump? More gains.

In the end, it also comes down to your philosophy and what you want to get out of your endeavor. If you seek solitude, self-sufficiency, it should be evident that having a partner does not parallel your philosophy, and therefore will make your pack no lighter. However, those who appreciate fellowship, both on the trail, around the fire/pot, and under the stars will likely find that grams can be shed if there is enough trust and planning.

[Jim H]

This turned out to be an interesting thread! It seems like most of the discussion hangs on trip intent and whether the partners are family or not. I think I might be lucky in that my wife/family likes coming on trips with me, but are all more than happy to let me plan everything and tell them what to put in their packs. I can see how trust can be an issue for groups, especially when they're all new partners.

When I plan trips, sharing is function of trip intent and logistics.

My wife enjoys backpacking because I do, not because it's something she's interested in independently. So our trips together are usually weekenders with low miles and lots of creature comforts and accessories (big camera, fishing gear, a book, fancier food/beverages, etc.). We share pretty much everything but a toothbrush. I usually pretty impressed how many extras we can carry and maintain fairly light packs.

The opposite is when hiking with friends. All we really share is shelter space and whiskey. None of us pack too heavy, so it's pretty near a solo kit once you add in the whiskey. It's easier to just tell everyone to pack separately and show up at the trailhead.

Somewhere in the middle is hiking with my father and brother. After a surgery, my dad decided he was okay with using us as mules rather than leave any camera gear at home. But he also hikes slower then my brother and I now, so he hikes with all his camera gear so he can stop and snap anywhere, and we hike ahead at our own pace. This last season sometimes an hour behind us (combo of hiking speed and shutter speed). We all knew where we'd meetup, but he still carried the InReach and enough emergency gear that he could stop and wait for us to come get him if he fell or something. So we still saved weight by sharing a tarp, cookware, etc., but some of it was lost due to trip intent and safety considerations.

[Alexander S]

I thought everybody does that. At least with a hiking buddy whom you plan trips with.

[Cody Hallenbeck]

It's been a bit interesting reading this thread, because I have a really different perspective than many posters. I learned to backpack at a wilderness backpacking summer camp where our most common group size is 10, and of course the kids basically have no group gear, and counselors carry the cook kit and shelter, and all food is cooked communally. Since most of my hiking partners come from this community, this is just sort of how I am used to hiking. The weight savings are not insignificant, for shelter especially. The camp does everything under PU nylon a-frame tarps that fit 5 people. Though not lightweight material, the PP weight is actually pretty great because you can pack people in like sardines and only really need much space at the ends of the A frame to allow for weather. There are reasonable limits of course–even a 5-person tarp can be slightly challenging to find a spot for; small shelters have the distinct advantage of having flexible setup. For my hike of the Sierra High Route this summer, my hiking partner and I shared everything that we reasonably could–one first aid kit, one pot, one stove, one shelter, one PLB, etc. Hell–we intentionally only brought one smartphone/camera. She ate out of the pot, I out of a 375ml titanium mug. All food planning was centralized. Using an 8.5×8.5 cuben tarp our PP shelter weight was something hilarious like 6.5oz (inc. line, stakes, etc). Sharing also makes using canister stoves more reasonable, though if I were doing it again I'd probably bring a high output alcohol stove for the same trip. Also, why double the total effort to cook dinner? It is interesting that so much UL stuff seems designed so intentionally for solo use, and really products made for over 2 (and occasionally 3) are rather rare. That said, I recently did my first ever significant solo trip, and it was really enjoyable.

[Christian Edstrom]

Of course you'd share. Not sharing is UL insanity.

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