Speaking of light; wouldn’t sharing gear make our packs much lighter?

[Hiking Malto]

I have seen this debated when two folks decide to do a thru hike. The main reason given for not wanting to share is the consequences if the pair decides to part ways mid way through. Not as much an issue for a weekend trip but I like having the option to alter plans and sharing gear would make that a bit complex. I think that happened on your Rae Lakes trip for example.

Also in my case there would be almost no advantage from a weight perspective. My total shelter weighs 1 lb between the tarp and bivy. My two person TT Squall weighs about two lbs so no advantage there. My stove only weighs maybe 2 oz. and would still take the cup. And then someone has to potentially wait to cook.

And first aid, maybe but even that is so minimal unless you had a large enough group.

Bottom line… 2 oz. savings just isn't worth it.

[EndoftheTrail]

Will sharing lighten the total load of the group? Absolutely.

Having said that, my own take is to simply design a system where everything I need for my trips weighs so little that I can hike all day, every day, without really feeling it. The question then becomes a non issue. And I like that. YMMV, of course.

[Kattt]

Excuses. Same ones I would use, if I was going on a trip and received an email saying I don't need to bring my knife, or pot, or shelter etc. I am right there too, making excuses. I also justify bringing dried baby wipes, a comfy set up, a knife , because "the weight difference is minimal, the extra pound won't break my back, it's safer…."

Those saying there is no or barely any weight difference….sorry, with some notable exceptions , the weight savings amount to something here on BPL. I challenge you to post your and your friends gear list, and I bet we could cut out more than you think.

All other excuses are valid and they are the same ones we make when we want to stick to our kits, because it just works for us, and we are comfortable, and it's safer….Not because we could not do with less or without, but because we choose and are comfortable to do it the way we do it.
If I posted a challenge to reduce or leave out items in a survivalist forum, the excuses not to….would be the same, but in proportion:
That's how I learned to do it.
I need to be self sufficient.
That won't save me much weight ( a pound on BPL maybe equals 6 here?)
The difference does not break my back.
I need my 5" blade.
And so forth.

So, my conclusion is that if we already have hiked with someone we trust, and we carpool, and we have similar style and kits, the only truly valid reason, not to share some gear (if the goal is fast and light and far), is because we just don't want to.
Ok, maybe because the other does not use toilet paper, for the sake of saving very valuable grams ; )

[John S.]

Any cultural explanations may come across as excuses to a person. It's hike your own hike, not an excuse.

[Kattt]

Ultimately, always, hike your own hike. Be it with 10 or 70 pounds on your back. However, on BPL we challenge one another to go beyond the norm , particularly weight wise, and that is all that I am pointing out. Not making a judgement , as you should be able to tell from my having included myself as giving more or less legitimate excuses, for wanting to include certain items in my kit.

[Art …]

every backcountry trip I have ever taken with one or more others we have shared gear.
in fact it is so natural for me I thought it was the norm.

[EndoftheTrail]

Katharina:

You lost me on your last post???

[Kattt]

??

Ben, maybe this will help. I am not saying I will never change my kit, rather that right now I defend my wanting to bring certain items along, that add some weight. I may decided to go without in the future, particularly because I am aware that my choices don't mean that it cannot be done otherwise.

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

I think that my boyfriend and I could save weight by sharing a stove. Maybe. Thing is, he won't want to use my alcohol stove. He'll want to use his canister stove. It is a lot heavier than my alcohol stove, but it cooks much faster. And then in order to share the stove, we'll have to add bowls. The only way to avoid the bowls is if he's okay with eating out of the same pot. Then knowing how each of us eats, our meals would become a race to get enough food before the other eats it all. But if we could get over that, I think my boyfriend would save some weight if we shared, but I probably wouldn't.

[Kattt]

Piper,
I just don't think that you are considering the entire kit that you and your boyfriend are bringing, but maybe you are one of the notable exceptions. I am not wanting to pick on anyone. I am merely pointing out that if the same language and philosophy that we see in gear lists, ( which would include having to list EVERYTHING)were to be applied in this case, when it comes to saving weight, then we would all sound the same as the person who defends bringing their saw, the baby wipes, the more comprehensive first aid kit. We have a comfort zone, and backgrounds, and needs, and likes, which sometimes are more important than the saved weight. We get just as defensive about this, than heavier hikers do about their gear.
Either I am way to convoluted in expressing this, or I am missing something here.

[Jeffs Eleven]

Would you save weight? Yes

Why do more folks not do it? Its that feeling of being self-sufficient. To know that you got what you need. Almost an adrenalin rush- surge of confidence. No true "reason"

[Kattt]

Jeff,
that is what I mean. To that all I can say is "Fair enough".

[EndoftheTrail]

Katharina:

I see the words "challenge" and "defend" in your posts repeatedly. Why do you feel the need to challenge anyone? As well, why do you (or anyone else) need to "defend" your hiking style?

I think it's very beneficial asking people about ways to sharing gear and cutting weight. I also think that everyone here is perfectly capable of reading and then making up their own minds? No need for you to challenge any of us.

You are absolutely correct about YMMV in your earlier post. Just cut out the "but".

[Kattt]

Ben, you are probably correct. I am not "challenging" other people. I am using the language and intent used in Gear lists. I hope you see beyond the possibly inadequate words.

[EndoftheTrail]

Likely, I misunderstood your premise. You say you got your language and intent from Gear List? Clelland?

[Art …]

When I want to feel self sufficient I take a solo trip.
For me, a group trip, even a group of 2, is all about sharing an experience.
You save weight by sharing gear, but even more important, sharing gear makes the group more cohesive, the weight saving is secondary.

[Miguel Arboleda]

Ben, if I may be so presumptuous to step in (I know you are perfectly able to speak for yourself Katharina), what I think Katharina is trying to say is that she wants us to be as rigorous with the evaluation of a shared gear list as we (especially Mike Clelland) are with regular, single-person gear lists. And I agree with her. So far most of the comments here have been more like excuses than a rigorous evaluation.

Might I suggest actually writing a gear list out and then all of us can rip it apart in our usual vultures-without-toilet-paper way?

[Cayenne Redmonk]

If it isn't a solo trip, it isn't self sufficient.
I've never been heating water while others did the same and felt any sense of self sufficiency.

[EndoftheTrail]

"Go Solo … or Go Group. They are two different experiences."

Ah, but methinks Life gives us many more choices! I think I get leery about "either /or" observations because I tend to straddle a lot. As an example, hiking in a group, I will sometimes propose that we start off at different times (particularly if my buddies are early risers whereas I am not). Not only do I get my sleep, I also get to enjoy the peacefulness of hiking "solo" as I see no one all through the day. And at the end of the day, I get to enjoy the camaraderie of the group over a campfire, sharing experiences of the day and yakking about all topics. I also prefer that each of us carry our own gear.

False bravado? Hardly. But is mine somehow the best way? No.

Just about the only conclusion I can make is this: when going as a group, strive for compatibility. IMHO, there can be many different experiences. Talk it out with the group beforehand.

[Kattt]

Thanks for helping me express my thoughts better. If anything, I think this example would make us more understanding of other people's comfort zones, even if it means carrying a 40 lb pack.

[Jeffs Eleven]

I'm suggesting that in the back of our minds, even when with a group, we think, "if I get separated I'll be OK." I'm not implying that bringing all your gear while with a group makes you feel like you're on a solo trip.

I think it our sub-conscious praising us for being fully prepared for any 'what if' situation.

As ULers our feeling of being prepared means having our own shelter. Some of the Bushcraft guys think being prepared means having a backup for the backup. That's where the HYOH comes in.

—And if you ARE self sufficient within a group, its not false bravado- its self sufficiency within a group. Bravado has nothing to do with it.

[EndoftheTrail]

" If anything, I think this example would make us more understanding of other people's comfort zones, even if it means carrying a 40 lb pack."

Sorry to sound so 'contrarian', Katharina. With due respect (and sincerity) — why are other people's comfort zones any of our business to begin with — that we somehow need to become "more understanding" about??

I completely agree with Miguel though. If someone has a shared gear list, share that with us by all means. Hopefully, all of us will help critique the list from the viewpoint of safety and comfort — leaving our personal emotions out of the process as much as possible.

[James holden]

because in the gear list forum … gear lists get ripped up due to other peoples "comfort zone"

something to do about toilet paper methinks …

no reason not to do the same with shared gear

mountaineers have shared gear for ages … no 2 person climbing team that ive heard of brings up 2 stoves or 2 tents … at least not if they are going fast n light

[Kattt]

Ben, are other peoples comfort zones our business? I will have to think about that. My first response is: in some instances they are. You "challenge" those who wish not to travel, and for some, travelling goes beyond their comfort zone.
Anyway, here on BPL we often make fun of those carrying the kitchen sink and I tried to point out that even here, if it suits us, we will carry the extra.

[Jeffs Eleven]

I think she's saying that with all the nit pickin on personal gear lists just to get lower and lower weights, why do people still take their whole kit when going in a group? After all, they would save another XX ounces, which is the reason people post gearlists in the first place.

If you are really concerned about being as light as possible, why not share?

If your main concern is having the lightest possible self sufficient kit, by definition, you can't share.

[Author]

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