The Initiative…12,500 miles, one year, will he do it?

[a b]

That goal thing changed on his site.
No big deal cause it's his hike but originally, when the money was being taken for donations and the hype about the "initiative" was being spread all over the forums it was to be The Triple Crown and NCT in one calendar year.
It's fine that he changed it.. it's his hike.
But calling out the whole communtiy to say: "I am gonna do something nobody else has ever done." and then changing it after the fact kinda deserves a little sh#t thrown at it.
If i started the PCT in 2009 by telling everyone i was gonna beat Scott Williamsons record and then took 12 zeros before hitting the Sierra i would expect(and deserve) some flak.

[Len B]

Wow – do any of you other guys have "Media Kits" avaiable to the public for your hikes? (AS and a few others get a pass)

Sam still has the original goal posted there – it was never edited http://www.theinitiativesite.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/SamuelHGardner_Media_Kit-3.pdf along with the finances including $5K for the travelling slide show to K – 12 schools. All that pompous crap like "inspirational tours" and "inspiring others" kind of sits poorly with me. Just the way I am.

I don't honestly think he's a troll. I think he's very immature for a 25 year old with a college degree and some time in the workforce. He's overly impressed with his own limited abilities and is an unabashed attention seeker with absolutely no sense of humility. FWIW, he has very few company sponsors, ULA is the only mainstream one which only seems to have given him a pack (with a fancy "The Initiative" logo) – most seem to be UP friends / family. Seems now he's just going from trail magic to trail magic with a few camp-outs in between, getting a massage, yellow blazing wherever it's convenient, yada. Who knows if he'll even make it out of NY state at this rate. It'll be spring by the time he hits Ohio for the hundreds of miles of road walks there. And at his current pace it'll be winter again before he hits his home ground in the UP.

Hey, I'm happy that he's enjoying himself. Good for him. Too cold out there for me – did enough of that to last me a lifetime 30 years ago when I was his age. I do think he should take down the website though with all the preposterous BS and just keep up his journal. Kinda makes him look like a jerk when you read through his "media kit" and then look at the 7 mile per day average and all the other stuff he isn't prepared to handle.

Just my thoughts. Like Dennis Miller used to say, "of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong."

[James holden]

hes out there doing something … im sitting here on a computer after rock climbing indoors (well plastic climbing really since there was no rock involved) and watching hot chicks on nikita …

[Jack H.]

Ouch Len B! Who are you behind the pseudonym?

I think that guy has two big things going against him. He's snowshoeing through a brutal winter. And he has no long distance hiking experience. Learning and being influenced by the collective experience of the long distance hiking community is an advantage that he doesn't have.

Hard hike!

[Dirk Rabdau]

Heck, I would hate to backpack day in and day out at this time of year, regardless of what I promised. Cold. I hope he can pick up the pace if for no other reason than we might be having this same conversation a couple of winters from now – though if it does go that long, perhaps this topic could threaten the global warming thread.

[Len B]

Why ouch? Because I'm honest and say what I really think? I'm just not into sugar coating what I think, or being warm and fuzzy just for the sake of being politically correct.

I'm not gonna sit and applaud somebody who spent more time and effort on their website and self-promotion than they have on actually hiking.

Hey, like I said, I think it's great he's out there, and no, I wouldn't even attempt it. I only hike to have some fun and relax, not to challenge myself. But honestly, this has been a farce since day one as far as record attempts or inspiration goes.

[Dave T]

Len, I wonder who the actual troll is. WB shut down the thread on this apparently, so now you come over to BPL to badmouth the guy? Your only five posts on BPL are about this guy. We don't really need the WB-style flaming imported over here.

Do you have anything positive to offer the forums here? Why not tell us about a hike that you have done recently, or ask a gear question, or get involved otherwise with the forum here?

[James Marco]

Yeah, it is different as hikes go. I would have expected a few days where he was too tired to bother typing anything. I remember a several week long sections of "days" that were no more than typing "K" to my wife or daughters (Meaning I was OK, just tired and sleepy and didn't feel like socializing.)

He IS out there. Living below zero nights, snowshoeing days, when he is not in shape. Agrivating sore and tired muscles. I can feel for the guy. Take a bloody pain pill. Hike.

[Len B]

If you were to read critically, you'll note that I didn't call Sam a troll or call anyone else one. The act of calling people trolls was made by both another member of the forum and also by you. I just think Sam's an attention seeker who has greatly overestimated his own ability and greatly under-estimated the difficulty of what he proposes he can accomplish. If by pointing out facts about his hike you feel that I am "badmouthing" him, so be it. The facts remain unchanged. And he is the one publishing all of it for public consumption. It's not like I'm making any of it up.

Inre gear, I don't honestly need to ask any questions about hiking gear at this time. If I do in the future, I'll consider doing so. I generally make my own choices about what I carry by research without directly soliciting the input of others.

That you (and likely others) here don't care for my joining your discussion because I don't agree with your opinions or obsession with only posting and reading "positive" content is noted. I didn't realize I needed to agree with you or have your approval to post.

Have a nice day.

[Dave T]

Sorry your WB flame-a-thon is on lockdown so you had to come here, but did this guy run over your cat or something?

We get it. He got a big idea, hyped it up too much, isn't following through to the level he said he would. Of course he should've slow-played it a little. I also wish people could do great things and not make a big deal out of them (or not even tell anyone at all!). But let's just chalk it up to youthful enthusiasm.

Maybe we could all do with a little dreaming big and falling short. Better than not dreaming at all. At least he's out having an adventure, as other's have noted.

[Andrew Skurka]

How did a WAY oversold hike manage to get 6 pages of posts (admittedly with some of my help)? Can we stop paying attention to this now? I don't really see the conversation going anywhere from here. The fact is that Sam greatly overestimated his abilities and is now on a pretty average hike. I don't think there is any lingering doubt about whether he will achieve his original goal. Whether he achieves his newly stated I-have-egg-all-over-my-face goal of doing all the trails remains to be seen, but if he does it clearly will be spaced out over several years, as an average thru-hiker would do it. I tend not to follow the progress of every thru-hiker, so I don't see the sense in paying much attention to Sam's trip either, outside of the have-to-watch-a-trainwreck factor.

Personally, I definitely have been a little irked by this trip. I don't think that I'm insecure, but I can't help but get a little steamed over his pre-trip talk as well as by online posts like this one on Backpacker yesterday: "Look out, Andrew Skurka: Someone's gunning for your job. Michigander Samuel Gardner just began the All-In Trek on Jan. 1…" If nothing else I'm happy to see that experience and humility win again here.

[Dave T]

"The facts remain unchanged."

Just to synthesize much of your "facts":

He is an unabashed attention seeker and braggart with absolutely no sense of humility, very immature for a 25 year old, pretty arrogrant about his ability to pull this off; it's all about fancy websites, promotion, donations and talk, a bunch of BS hype, foolish, pompous crap and preposterous BS. Kinda makes him look like a jerk, overly impressed with his own limited abilities, with arrogance and total disregard for humility regarding his abilities.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Even if this guy DOES make most of his distance I think "THE PRICE" will come later in life with prematurely worn knees, foot problems, etc. That's just way too much wear & tear on the body all at once.

But, hey, I used to XC ski and ski race constantly and even did a two day, 100 mile marathon once. Many people have their obsessions. He has his so more power to him.

And who knows, maybe this is his lesson in learning humility.

[Iver Ericson]

The author of that blog post (Ted Alvarez) may have actually been very perceptive as to Gardner's hopes/intentions.

As Alvarez writes, "there's enough "overcoming adversity" and "achieve your dreams" talk on his site that I wouldn't be surprised to see a book in a few years, or at least a speaking career."

From the Media Kit section (Support, Sponsor Opportunities, Media Kit) of Gardner's site: "The Initiative is a motivational project that's sole purpose is to give hope, inspiration and tools to pursue personal goals. Through this project I will share my life's journey of the pursuit and achievement of seemingly unattainable goals…. The collective journey will be presented on this website and through speaking engagements at K-12 schools, universities, and organizations."

The budget section, which gives potential sponsors the opportunity to donate $25,992 to Sam's journey, includes $5,000 for the "Slide Show Tour Post-Trek."

In the cheaptents.com blog interview, when asked "Where would you like to be in five years," Sam replies: "I want to continue pursuing my goals of adventure, personal growth and inspiration. I want to take my experiences to schools and tell the stories to the kids. Show them that it is possible to follow our dreams no matter how seemingly impossible they appear to be or what the nay-sayers think."

Sam doesn't mention whether or not he plans to collect speaking fees. It wouldn't be surprising if he had seen that other people had managed to turn adventurous treks into paid speaking careers and thought that it looked like a pretty sweet gig.

[Bob Gross]

"Sam doesn't mention whether or not he plans to collect speaking fees. It wouldn't be surprising if he had seen that other people had managed to turn adventurous treks into paid speaking careers and thought that it looked like a pretty sweet gig."

Wow. Then Skurka ought to run for Congress.

–B.G.–

[Len B]

Often overlooked is that any adventurer's, LD hiker's, or mountaineer's body only has "x" many miles / climbs in it over "x" number of years. Even barring a "career" ending injury, plain old wear and tear adds up and like a car, parts wear out even with "good maintenance". We aren't evolved physiologically to do many of the activities we push ourselves to do, or to do them as often or for as many years as we now live. While activities such as climbing 8000 meter mountains, hiking thousand mile mountain trails, etc. are healthy activities in some ways (cardio, strength, etc) they are damaging in others (joint and connective tissue wear, brain atrophy with high altitutde mountaineering, etc).

There is definitely a price to be paid for all this fun.

[Jack H.]

I'd venture to say that it's conjecture at this point to say that long distance hiking is detrimental towards long term health. Have you done a lot of long distance hiking? I know that my knees feel better during and after a long trail than they do when I'm spending large amounts of time in cities.

Plus, there are people with tens of thousands of miles under their belts. They're in their 70s and see to have much stronger joints than the typical american.

Sure, hiking can be bad for joints, but I'm not sure that it's so clear cut.

[James Marco]

Physiologically speaking, doctors and other health pro's used to recommend bed rest or inactivity to help with recovery. Now they advocate the moderate activity to stimulate muscle regeneration. I agree that high altitude mountaineering can be bad. Arthritis seems to be one that is helped by activity. The human brain benefits from increased activity by helping dispose of waste products and plaques. Physical training, walking (including hiking), and reading all are good ways to help your body maintain good health. Basically, the effects of long distance hiking are mostly positive at any age, soo, I don’t think I can agree with the arguments you present. The bad effects of >24,000’ altitudes are a given. We all need more oxygen than is present at those altitudes. Basically your body is self repairing, and beyond that, it will tailor itself to the activities you choose to engage in. Connective tissue gets tougher to better enable you to use the increased muscles you build with the increased levels of activity. Old age will eventually catch up with us all. That said, a hiker has a better chance of avoiding those problems than a couch potato.

[Dirk Rabdau]

Andrew, your consternation is understandable. Rather than be irked, be flattered that you are considered the gold standard of long-distance hiking. You are kind of like the gunslinger in the classic Western, the target of every hayseed who thinks he can out-draw the old cowboy.

I suppose Sam's misplaced bravado did capture the collective imagination. But history is littered with examples of people who grossly overestimate their own abilities while vastly underestimating what lies ahead. The Donner Party, the Darien Venture (Scotland), countless expeditions to Mt. Everest, El Dorado, and the Arctic demonstrate how events can punish those with big dreams but a lack of appropriate skills and knowledge.

I think we’d all agree that Sam would have been bettered served by more preparation and less self-promotion. But he did certainly garner attention to his journey, even though it hasn’t turned out as he had hoped. I believe there is a strange fascination we have with failure – few remember the adventures that turn out well, but the Donner Party disaster still resounds today.

[William Johnson]

Gold standard?

Tsk,tsk, titanium is significantly lighter than gold, sometimes produced in a purer aspect, and can be "multi-tasked" into different hues.

This is BPL.com, Mr. Rabdau. Here is to the "Titanium Standard."

(…and here are to adventures both large and small, both realized and only just attempted.)

[Erik Danielsen]

So what did we evolve to do? I would argue that moving around, a lot, at lower intensities (i.e: hiking) interspersed with higher-intensity, shorter-duration exercises best matches what we know of the conditions of our evolution over the last few million years (as opposed to the drop in the chronological bucket that we call the modern era). I would even propose that other modern tendencies that we're certainly not evolved to for (like eating cereal grains, whose toxins are associated with, among other things, arthritis… interesting, eh?), building machines that pump toxins into the air we breathe, spending hours every day in a seated position, wearing shoes practically from birth, coddling our kids so that their bodies develop less robust bones and connective tissues that would normally develop in response to stimulation from hard play and movement… and etc. probably have a much bigger effect on bone and joint health. If we were to subtract these factors (and avoid traumatic injury), I see no good reason why Homo Sapiens bodies shouldn't keep on going strong until it's just about time to die. Judging by the myriad bodies that have done so, historically, I don't think "too much exercise" is really the most likely cause here.

[Chris Kopp]

I'm curious what the best strategy for successfully completing this hike in 365 days would be. It's understood that experience is the most important ingredient. However, would you change the order of the trails, direction traveled on them, date of departure?

[Dirk Rabdau]

William my friend, I do stand corrected. "Titanium Standard" it is.

And I heartily agree with your salute to all adventurers out there….

Dirk

[Len B]

I don't think it's as simple as "too much exercise" being good or bad, it's the type of exercise and resulting wear and tear on joints that is. If you force yourself, you can hike, or otherwise exercise and stress / wear parts of the body at a level or a rate faster than the body is able to repair itself. This especially becomes an issue with people who do these types of activities for a living, or as highly competitive amateurs, and I would put LD hikers in this category (yeah, you could argue this with those who don't do it regularly, regularly being something like every year or two years going on a 1000 mile+ thru-hike).

Athletes, especially professionals, tend to have lots of rather severe joint problems as they age, especially once into their 50's and beyond. Years of LD hiking (which if done frequently enough puts one in this "athlete" group IMO) is going to have both positive and negative health effects. Likely overall health will be better than those who live sedentary lives. But joint health will likely be poorer through simply wearing out the "mechanical parts". So I find myself disagreeing with the notion that people who put a lot of physical stress on their bodies can stay healthy until the day they die. Quite the contrary, they are more likely to wind up very healthy cardiovascularly and perhaps muscularly, but suffer with joint problems, arthritis, etc. The good news is we can alleviate a lot of these problems with surgical repair, hip, knee, and other joint replacements, and now stem cell research is being looked at toward rebuilding soft connective tissue, cartilage, etc. Modern medicine, food distribution and supply, industrialization, etc. even with it's negative impacts, has put us in the somewhat awkward position of often outliving the usefulness of our body parts.

From an evolutionary standpoint, humans didn't routinely put 30 miles per day on their feet, knees, etc. as some LD hikers and ultrarunners will. People travelled only as much as they had to, to procure food and to migrate with the seasons. Left on their own, all animals, including humans, seek efficiency in life. They do no more work than what is necessary to survive. There was no selection advantage for joints that were any stronger than they had to be to reach breeding age, or if you take it to a societal level, to select for anything beyond being able to pass on knowledge and skills to the next generation. That we lately have become concerned much more with our future health doesn't change what machinery we are endowed with at birth.

And while we have learned that many processed foods aren't particularly healthy, the flip side is that overall the availability of food, and the ability to preserve and distribute unspoiled food, along with general sanitation, has had a profound positive effect on both lifespans and population, so again, it isn't a one way street. When it comes to people who see only the negative in how technology and industrialization has effected our lives (and our food), I'm always reminded of George Carlin saying, "Ah, the good old days – when botulism was a sauce."

There are no purely positive choices. The economics of life as it applies to health – the opportunity costs, efficiencies, etc tend to play out in the end. Exercise, like any other endeavor, has both positive and negative effects. The trick is to find the best balance, which will vary for each individual. Kinda like that HYOH stuff. :)

[Robert Cowman]

I would rather see a society that has bad joints at 50 that heart attack and child obesity at 30…

Plus we are designed to run long distance for long periods of time. We used to run animals to death… and barefoot.

let him do it. look at Colin Angus's trip around the world. he had a bunch of hitches, and he still went around the world. let it play out. its been a month.

[Author]

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