Lightweight Backpacking, Wal-Mart Style

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Lawson

In spirit of free debate …

> there is no such thing as local labor rates anymore.
Is there no such thing as a 'minimum wage' in America? We have one in Australia.

> American and Australian workers are in direct competition with these underpaid Chinese workers.
True, but that has nothing to do with Wal-mart. It has to do with global communications and global transport. Well, you can't put that one back in the box. And there was a time when America thought that raising the standard of living of all those third-world countries would be a Good Thing: it would reduce the risk of unrest and increase the market for American goods.

> Its called CORPORATISM not capitalism.
I am not sure I can see the difference. It seems to me that it is just human nature to want to expand, grow, compete. And don't forget: these companies do not exist as separate things: they actually reflect the wishes of their shareholders. And ultimately, the 'shareholders' are the American people. Yep: it is Joe Public who ultimately drives the actions of all these companies.
So it is Joe Public's GREED which is driving all these companies. And it was Joe Public's actions in spending more than he was earning which ultimately drove the GFC too. OK, the politicians allowed the banks to reduce their capital requirements and the Fannie Mays to give mortgages to people who could never repay them – but that was pandering to the Joe Public voters as well.

> Wal-Mart's "low prices" come at a huge cost to the bottom quarter of American society. Essentially every
> time they spend a dollar at Wal-Mart they are that much closer to having their jobs outsourced.
I cannot see that the two things are linked that way. The low prices of Wal-mart benefit far more people than it costs: Wal-mart serves far more customers than the number of employees it has.
As to the outsourcing thing: that has nothing to do with Wal-mart per se: as I pointed out above it is a consequence of global communications and global transport. Most American companies are outsourcing to meet the dividend returns demanded by their shareholders – Joe Public again.

My 2c.
Cheers

[James holden]

Travis …

I don't think any of the big box retailers have received bailouts at all. They are probably some of the more viable american businesses. One should not be buying GM or Chrysler, banking at BOA or Citi (or tons of other banks), etc … if you are concerned about public bailouts.

The day wallymart goes on TARP is the day america ends ….

justin biebler is awwwwwsuuuuum … lol

[Travis Leanna]

Nope, I don't think any retailers had bailouts either. I did mention that about Walmart in my other post. However, McDonalds got $203 million of bailout money!

And yeah, we know you love the Beibster! :)

[Ryan Longmire]

Way to link Walmart to the rise of Justin Bieber. The logic is infallible. ;)

[cary bertoncini]

Walmart actually has employees tasked with assisting other employees receive public assistance–this is what they have chosen to do instead of paying sufficient salaries and giving sufficient benefits to their employees. Because of their low wages, high percentage of part-time workers, and lack of benefits, a significant percentage of their employees are eligible for public assistance.

Congress completed a study several years ago of the economic impact of Walmart on small town economies. The conclusion was grim. Walmart has a net negative effect on small town economies. Their jobs displace jobs that were and would be higher paying, but more importantly, because of their centralized source and delivery systems, the local Walmart siphons money out of the local economy. Usually, every dollar introduced into a locality passes a certain number of hands before leaving that economy–there is usually a fairly consistent math for this. When I took Economics many years ago, the example number given was seven–each dollar passes seven hands before leaving a community. Money spent at Walmart has a staggeringly disproportionate tendency to leave the local economy right away, a very small percentage of it remaining in the local economy in the form of wages; most of it is siphoned off to Walmart headquarters. Once ensconced in a small town market, it has a self perpetuating effect. As the local economy is continually weakened, there is less and less numerical chance of any competition forming and more chance of any remaining competition going out of business, while more and more people are forced to do a higher percentage of their shopping at Walmart.

Walmart's record of employee mistreatment is now a thing of legend–they have set a new low standard for illegal practices relating to employement standards.

The existence and success of business models like Costco make Walmart's argument that they are only doing what they have to do to compete absolute B.S. Costco continues to remain highly profitable while having a high percentage of full-time employees with good benefits packages. They have very few employee suits or complaints to deal with. Their approach to prescription drugs is a case in point highlighting their wise, ethical approach to business that is in sharp contrast to Walmart's–at Costco, they decided that all prescription drugs would be sold for the same standard profit markup as anything else in the store, rather than the 500% to 900% markup that is standard at Walmart and other pharmacies. They did this in part as a way to help their older clients on medicare, which has a pretty high co-pay for prescriptions. A federal study a few years back determined that prescription drugs at Costco average 40-70% lower cost than at any other pharmacies. As an example, we buy a drug for a cat with a systemic fungal infection that would cost about $90 per month at Walmart or any other pharmacy. It is $12 per month at Costco after the additional $2 discount they give us because the prescription is for a pet.

[cary bertoncini]

just step right up :)

[Dan Feldman]

Allow me to bring this thread back to the article for a sec….

I really enjoyed reading this. It's a topic I've often thought about when wandering the outdoors section of WalMart….Could this $10 nylon jacket perform just as well as my pac-lite? Or will it leak like a sieve and fall apart?

In the world of backpacking gear, cost, quality, and satisfaction don't move in lockstep. This is because, outside of basic manufacturing quality standards, "good gear" is a very much a subjective concept. The most high tech, expensive, brand name backpack may suit one person perfectly and be cumbersome to another. Likewise, a flimsy, cheapo pack might make an ultralighter totally content, while frustrating someone who needs more cushioning to be comfortable. This, unfortunately, adds a lot of complexity to gear shopping for newbies, who must wade through gear reviews and blogs before making an educated guess and hoping for the best. Outweighing this negative, though, is the fact that with a little extra research one can find really great gear for a steal of a price.

I appreciate the cautious conclusion the author makes. Gear at WalMart can be expected to fail fairly quickly. While good quality gear can be had at a low price, I think we can all agree that there is a certain price point for new gear at which quality will be consistently poor. The author is realistic in his view that the gear he bought will probably last no longer than two weeks. With WalMart, you gotta keep expectations low.

I disagree with the point that WalMart gear is a good place for newbies to start. This is because one cold, shivering night in a leaky WalMart tent or a day spent hiking in a leaky rain jacket might be enough to turn a first-timer away from backpacking permanently. My guess is that most newbies don't have the interest or skill in rigging up their own rain fly. I'd perhaps alter this recommendation by saying WalMart is a good place to start to find gear that isn't responsible for keeping one warm and dry.

My suggestion for newbies would be to do some research and then try to obtain the gear on EBay or Craigslist. With either of these methods you might still get stuck with something that is broken (although someone with a good seller rating is pretty reliable), but I think there's a better chance of having a dry night's sleep for a low price than with WalMart gear.

[W I S N E R !]

Such an F'n unbelievable song Cary, thanks for reminding me.

[Ken Thompson]

I've come across a whole Wal-Mart setup on the Lost Coast that someone just left behind. Wasn't worth it to them to carry out the tent, sleeping bag, pad and stove(two-burner). Had to be newbies.

[Travis Leanna]

Ken,
Though not terribly commonplace, that's the sort of disposibility that I dislike with really cheap gear. I know that is all some people can afford, so much of it comes down to personal responsibility.

[James holden]

i actually think that big box stores are the bet place to start for certain things … like underwear and midlayers and socks and gloves

keep in mind that quite a few folks that work outdoors buy clothes at big box stores … the clothes should last quite a while …

ive never had to return any clothing to a big box store yet … the wallymart and costco underwear is still going strong

home depot gloves last longer than a lot of those fancy outdoor gloves for a fraction of the price …

i might just have to go buy a wallymart 29$ daypack … thats weights 28 oz and has an aluminum stay and test it till destruction …

the one the folks here seem to have no issue with …http://www.bplite.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2498

someone also reviews their $30 Arrowhead 50L 2.25 lb pack positively here ..

http://at-trail.blogspot.com/2010/03/hiking-backpack-outdoor-products.html

i suspect there's a definite snob factor at work here … hell there was a snob factor with one of the REI threads a bit back ;)

[Frank Steele]

nice to see that you can drop weight without dropping loads of cash (Wish I had tried that)

As for the wahhh "Walmart treats its employees bad" crowd. If they don't like their job, quit, simple as that.

[DAVID DUBE]

The late Harvey Butchart was a determined explorer of the Grand Canyon, logging some 12,000 miles and 1,000 days, summiting its peaks and finding new ways to get from the rim to the river. He did it wearing K-Mart boots and backpacks. He wouldn't know what to do in an REI.

On principal I abhor Walmart for the many reasons already cited. But let us keep it real. Consumerism is a disease, yet it has lifted many millions out of poverty – at a very high cost to the planet. I visit and hike the Grand Canyon several times a year. It is a ten hour drive each time. I know that the relative merits of my frugal miserly ways of making my own gear and babying it to last me a lifetime (and buying local) hardly makes up for my transportation to get me to trailheads.

[Greg Geiger]

I just wanted to chime in with some more goodies that are available at walmart.

– 5/8" CCF sleeping pads for $5

– 250 gram coleman isobutane canisters for $4.50

– Nite-Ize S-Biners in SS and plastic, multiple sizes for $2+ (I've seen these in both the camping section and the hardware section next to screws and picture hangers)

and my personal favorite…

– Sawyer .1 micron water filter element w/water bottle for $40 (I ditched the bottle & use the filter in a gravity setup)

[Nathan Baker]

Greg – do you know how much the sawyer filter weighs from the bottle combo? Thanks

[Greg Geiger]

Mine weighs in at 69 grams or 2.43 ounces.

[Nathan Baker]

Thank you Greg. It appears to be a bit heavier than the inline, but a few dollars cheaper too.

[Greg Geiger]

I realized last night that I had stored it wet, so I dried it out overnight and reweighed it. It now weighs in at 62.6 grams or 2.21 ounces. It's possible that there's still a little bit of water in there, but then again, when you're on the trail it's going to be wet anyways.

[obx hiker]

Sams and probably walmart also carry Cuddle-Duds which are technically speaking Ahem…. marketed to women. they are VERY light, comfortable next to skin, and hit the sweet spot for me on adding warmth without too much insulation for high exertion. The V-neck top in a size M which I can wear and I wear a mens lg ( the stuff is very stretchy and I wanted a snug fit) weighs 3.7 oz. A lg hoodie which I've really enjoyed this winter weighs 6.7 oz and we're talking anywhere from $10.00 on clearance at Sams to @$20.00 per piece full retail. Cuddle duds has a very thorough website you can google if interested but no mention of weight. I think pants weigh @ 5oz. I cut a pair off just at the knee and they weigh 3.1.

[Michael Ray]

FYI for those that want to try them, my wife says CDs are clearly not as warm as Capilene 2 from 2 years ago.

[James S]

Buy what you can afford and what keeps you safe and having fun. Snobbery is more costly than any gear I'll ever afford. As others have said before me, Walmart isn't even close to being the devil. If you don't want to shop there – don't. Problem solved.

[obx hiker]

that sounds right. I first looked at them as a very light sleeping layer, bag liner thing; which btw the mld momentum 50 liner looks like a weight saving temp boosting solution to that concern, but found them fine for a high activity level layer. They are very open, almost like hosiery, and seem to work like a cross between a woven layer and more of a fishnet air pocket effect. Put it this way you wouldn't wear them alone unless it was pretty warm. The cuddle-duds website for ex doesn't really display or expose the sheer nature of the material. If it did there would be modesty issues.

[Jim Morrison]

You mentioned a tarp shelter might cost less and weigh less. Can you direct me to a place that advertises one or give me a brand name?

[Greg Geiger]

I was browsing the camping section of walmart this afternoon and saw a product that I've never seen before. A 5×7 urethane coated nylon backpacking tarp made by Outdoor Products for $9.88. I weighed it (in the produce section ;)) & it came in right at 8 ounces with the stuff sack & tag. I'd say that it was about 7" long and 4" diameter in it's stuff sack. I would guess that it's somewhere in the 70 denier range.

Here's a pic:

[Michael Ray]

Another thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is Outdoor Products 3-pack of dry sacks for $10. I use the larger green one as my food bag with an OpSak inside it. It seems pretty airtight and water resistant at least.

Another find is braided catfish line. All but one spool (and the mason's line) they sell is twisted, but this 1 spool I believe was 100 lb (~1.5mm) and braided.

[Author]

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