State of the Market Report: Two-Person Double-Wall Tents (2010)

Guys, I am just a contract writer for BPL. I was asked if I was interested in writing this, and testing and writing full reviews on four or five (turned into seven) of the tents, because of the kind of tents I use for the most part myself. (Will has known me for years before I came to BPL.) I did not set the criteria, but I do think that many new people trying to lighten up will find these a good step in the right direction. Personally even though I have lighter options I find myself gravitating back to these class of tents just because they work best for me and I like them.

There are SOTMR’s planned for other types of shelters. (I know because I was asked if I was interested in, and ran screaming from, floorless shelters.) And when they do 2P UL tents weighing under 2.5 lb you won’t have to worry about these ones being in it. ;-)

> Also keep in mind that BPL would have to buy most of these tents, because the
> small business owners often cannot supply samples. A single tent can cost
> them a lot of money when you look at the additional gross profit that must be
> generated in additional sales to cover each sample.

This is an ongoing problem for BPL. We would LOVE to test more large UL products from the cottage industry, but we cannot afford to buy them, and they cannot afford to give us a review sample (or so they say). If we had a bigger budget things might be different, but as we are currently structured (no advertising revenue), that isn't possible.

So yes, there is a problem here. Solutions would be appreciated.

Cheers

if i was a cottage manuf who was totally confident in my product and believed it was as good or better than anything else out there

id jump at the chance to send it to BPL … for a cost of a few hundred you get exposure to your target market …

the flip side is that a poor review can have an outsized impact as well

credit to those manuf who have walked the plank and sent their stuff in to be tested

here's a question … does BPL publish poor reviews … or just average/above average/recommended/highly recommended … hmmmmm

"So yes, there is a problem here. Solutions would be appreciated."

If there is any gear, particular or general that is sought after for testing yet remains elusive to obtain, why not ask the community for a loaner? I would be happy to allow a tester a (gentle) crack at some of my gear for the purposes of objective evaluation.

Ray, would you like to borrow a Brooks Range Rocket tent before I modify it? ;)

(by the way, thanks for the report Ray! mass props.)

One more solution:

I hear that cottage gear sells rather well on the Gear Swap Forum (understated for emphasis). Perhaps if BPL bought samples, some of the companies would be willing to sell at a modest discount for the cause. Regardless, it would doubtful be cumbersome to turn them around for minimal expense and hassle, albeit still a potential cash flow occlusion.

Aaron,

Excellent suggestion to ask the BPL membership for a loaner. Of course it would need to be understood that for longer term testing it is not a short-term loan.

If the manufacturer provides a loaner, it is no longer a new item that can be sold. But, due to short supply they might be able to get close to retail for it. But lets keep in mind that many do not have items in inventory and loaning out one $300 tent that could be sold today could mean no food this week.

No disrespect to anyone, but I have to ask/state a question. "Have you ever owned a business?" It is not as easy as one may think. If you work for someone else, then you probably get a regular pay check. The small business owner gets a paycheck only if there is money left over after paying all the bills. It is all about cash flow. And I bet many of the cottage manufacturers make a lot less money than many of us. There is also a limit to how much time they can work everyday, as they have other responsibilities in life. Lastly, if they want to make a lot more money, then they will need to attract a larger customer base, which means making "mainstream" products, which some do, and other refuse to do. It can be a real tightrope.

All I am saying is that we love our UL gear makers, and many of us have spent a lot of money with them. But we must recognize that it is often not easy to own these kind of businesses. Many of us love our UL cottage manufacturers, because we are selfish… we want and need their products. Unfortunately we are small minority in the universe of gear buyers.

I think it is really cool that many of these owners post here on BPL, they are members of our community too. I don't see the presidents of REI, Montbell, MSR, etc. participating in our forums. When Dan M, Dave O, Henry, Ron M, Ron B, Brian F, Chris, Rand, Glenn, Grant, and a host of others join in it makes this place magical. There would be no UL hiking for most of us without these business owners.

Hi Ray,

Thanks for the fantastic review- this is exactly the kind of information that I am looking for, being reasonably new to lightweight backpacking.

I also have the Fly Creek UL2 and also think it is a great shelter (for the conditions that I hike in).

I think my next purchases will be a Scarp 2 and some sort of tarp/bivvy combo or similar so I look forward to researching more information in that area- although, like yourself Ray, I'm still not 100% on a floorless shelter!

Cheers,
Will

Ask members to provide their tents and tarps and in return give them a free upgrade to life time member or a pre-paid subscription for 2 years or the like. you don't loose any revenue, and in the end the whole community would benefit from a comprehensive review of a tent by someone who doesn't own it.

> does BPL publish poor reviews
Very good question.
I can only answer for myself, and maybe one or two others.

Realistically, I can usually tell from a fair distance whether something is just not going to make it. OK, maybe a few items might slip past me untested as a result, but my experience says not many. As I have rather a lot of good gear to be tested, I avoid the not-so-good.

What about things that look interesting but turn out poorly? There have been a few of these over the years. In this case I may simply not get around to doing the review: there are better items to spend my time on after all. In a few cases something can be salvaged, often as part of a survey.

So, is there filtering? In practice, yes. Can I safely take it you do not really want a string of reviews of sub-standard gear?

Cheers

thanks Roger

the problem i have is i dont know when im shopping around and dont see the product reviewed on BPL … whether it the product just wasnt tested or if it was and didnt do well at all …. hopefully i avoid the latter

a listing of products being tested would help us know whether to hold off till the test is published (or is buried) … and would probably generate some excitement

of course if some gear doesnt test well i dont expect BPL to publish the results … the staff could get lynched !!!

American Alpine Institute Guides Choice testing does it this way …

http://www.guideschoice.com/SitePage.asp?ipage=77

"here's a question … does BPL publish poor reviews … or just average/above average/recommended/highly recommended … hmmmmm"

Good question. I have been reviewing gear for 6 years at another site. Roger was one of my first editors, and along with Will encouraged me to come here. At that other site I have written about 140 reviews of gear I buy myself, and 40+ tests that the manufacturer provides.

As I only write about something that has got a lot of real-world use if something is junk I just won’t take it again. Why be miserable using something for months just to write about it for nothing more than the feeling you are helping fellow hikers? So in those cases no, I won’t do a “bad” review. I will be honest if that item comes up in a gear forum discussion as I want to save my fellow from having to find out the hard way.

Now a test item that I have committed to use is different. Those I will use and I will be brutally honest about it. I will report the flaws but will try to balance with the (hopefully) positives as well. But I won’t lie for anyone. My first review for BPL was the NEMO Elite that was just OK, and I said so. It is pretty cool to see that three of my complaints/suggestions have been incorporated into the newest version.

But like Roger said, if something was that bad I may ask to drop the test if it is OK with Ryan and the manufacturer, choosing to just give feedback directly to the manufacturer to hopefully use to get it right next time.

Congratulations on having collated such a large sample range.
As with the backpack review, you cannot include everything, nor please all.
I have enough problems just testing a few Tarptents let alone have the time to look at other shelters. (not that I would bother)
kidding aside I happen to know that the various reviewers here need to have a great passion for the products because the financial rewards make slave labour look like a lucrative proposition.
So well done again.
The only bit that I would like clarified is to add a note under the Scarp picture (the one with the deer) to say that it is meant to show how not to pitch that shelter.
BTW, all of the Scarp pictures are of the old version, including the correctly pitched one further down.
Franco

Hi Mary – Have you checked out Granite Gear's The Haven? They told me it weighs about a pound. It looks like a pretty good bug protection.

Not one mention of a Tarptent being anyones favorite in the wrap up. Looks like double wall tents have really stepped up in the past 5 years?

"Not one mention of a Tarptent being anyones favorite in the wrap up. Looks like double wall tents have really stepped up in the past 5 years?"

Huh? The Scarp is a great shelter. What other double walled two person shelters does Tarptent have?

I have had the opportunity to get 2 tents over the past 2+ years frtom big Sky with no problems/ issues.