Winter Gear List (Smokies, 8-10 day trip)

[Bob Gross]

"Re: camera batteries. Not sure — a lot depends on how many photos you shoot per day, and how many shots you get per battery."

As it turns out, the biggest camera battery drain is the rear display. If you use the optical viewfinder and allow the rear display to light up only for a couple of seconds, it isn't so bad. If you spend a lot of time reviewing your shots on the rear display, you burn a lot of battery power.

–B.G.–

[John Wozniak]

– Yeah, I'm going to keep the pack cover. I prefer to have the extra layer of protection in this case.

– I'll take the extra pair of liner gloves

– Even if it does have a taste, I don't expect to be bothered by it. Iodine treatments never bothered me, and I've used chlorine before too, which I'm guessing is probably worse than the diox.

– I don't think I'm willing to try a wood fire approach, maybe in more pleasant weather, but not for this one

– I think I'm going to keep the pad system as it is for now too, I'm just curious to try it out and see how it performs, but long-term, depending on how much cold weather stuff I continue to do I'll definitely look at a dedicated option like a downmat. I may change the z-lite for a ridgerest solar, to add a little r-value to the system. Why ccf on top of the neoair? I was thinking the other way around (get the heavier insulation against the ground)?

– What I'm planning is a couple days heavy on pictures, and a few pretty light if at all (the longer hikes) so I think I'll be okay. I just got the longer life batteries so I'm not sure how many pictures I'll get out of them just yet. I'll find out though

– My sleeping bag is in a roll-top sil bag too, and my extra clothes, but mainly so I can compress them as much as possible

– Alan, yeah I was thinking about a resupply, what I'm worried about is that I will probably hit that area on Christmas Day, if reliability is ever an issue that would be the time. If you (or anyone else) is particularly familiar with that area, is there a place around fontana where I could drop food and a couple clothing items. If I could rely on it, I would absolutely do it; it could get my max pack weight under 30lbs

– true, the bivy will be nice for the shelters

– I think I'm going to need the top compartment for the volume on this trip, but I'm working on cutting down some of the excess straps and gadgets. I'm not really comfortable with the hip pockets on the belt, I may cut those off. But, overall I think I can get rid of at least a couple of ounces.

[John Wozniak]

Bob, I don't like the live view feature on the camera so I tend to use the viewfinder most of the time, I'll have to make an effort to do less reviewing though :)

[Bob Gross]

I don't use the live view feature, either, except for video. When I first arrive at my destination, I shoot a few frames and study the results on the histogram, just to make sure that everything is functioning as it should. After that, I use the rear display very little to conserve battery power.

This summer, I spent two weeks in Alaska with two larger Canon cameras, and I used 75GB of memory, yet I never had to recharge batteries. I used fresh spares.

–B.G.–

[alan york]

Hike Inn picks up hikers @ Fontana,Jeff=828-479-3677.Check their web page or call & they could let you know their holiday plans.I've done the range around newyears and several groups I met do it every year around then.All good company!Mostly guys getting away from the wives.I'd bring the stove you like,but don't overlook a fire as a moral boost when the weather goes south.Have fun!

[Robert Carver]

John, as far as creek crossings. Noland Creek is not the only trail that the BMT follows that has them. There are several on the Loast Cove section, depending on rain fall these can be easily hopped. There are a couple on the Pole Road section. Again these can be easily hopped depending on rain fall. The selection of trails that make up the BMT in the park are all nice. Hope you enjoy the trip. If you get a chance, I suggest you stay one night at Laurel Gap shelter. It's one of my favorite spots in the park.

[John Wozniak]

Bob, that's good to hear, hopefully I'll be okay with the two. If I can use Fontana as a resupply I'll have another set or the charger waiting there.

Alan, thanks I'll definitely check them out. It sounds like there could be some decent groups of people out and about then. Should be fun!

Robert, thanks for the info, the more I find out about the route the better. I'm still working on finalizing my itenerary, but right now I've got Laurel Gap as a potential for my first night. I've stayed there before too, it really is very nice.

[Brad Rogers]

Laurel Gap is a nice area, but the shelter is a dump, at least it was when I was through there. It would make a nice, though illegal, camp spot though.

[Misfit Mystic]

If you're thinking of a Caldera Cone, you might consider the Ti-Tri option. Definitely more expensive, but you get the advantage of both alcohol and wood fire options in one unit. Wood is nice in the winter as long as you are confident in your fire-starting skills. Fuel is crucial in cold conditions obviously; using wood means you always have fuel available. Nice for unexpected cold snaps when more hot beverages are nice, and also for snowmelting/purifying lots of water. Doubt you'll be melting snow in December though.

Some have mentioned traction aids, and in my experience you will need something. There are a number of places around Leconte where there always seem to be frozen stretches of rocky trail, the most dangerous IMO being the Charlie's Bunion area.

I like having a small bladder like a 'Lil Nipper along in winter; I put a hot drink in it when I just start out on cold mornings and keep it inside my jacket. It cuts the chill until I get warmed up from walking, both from drinking the warm drink and from the bottle's radiation in my clothes. It's also handy for warming up cold shoes and drying socks. A small HDPE or Lexan flask would also work.

[John Wozniak]

Hmm, well it's been a while since I've been in that area. We'll just have to see how it goes, if I get a good, early start on that first day Laurel Gap will be a little short for a stopping point (~12 miles in), but if I don't drive all the way up there the preceding day, or get a late start, it will work out nicely. I would never make an "unofficial" campsite ;)

I think I'm going to try out the basic system to make sure I like it and feel confident in the design. Then maybe upgrade to the ti-tri down the road. Let's see, my current cook system for stove, pot, fuel bottle is right around 1.75lbs. The Caldera (2oz) + a 640mL Evernew (3.4oz) + lightweight bottle (~eh?) should run around 6oz total. I also only have to carry one bottle instead of a second for the priming, hygiene, and wound cleansing. So, at least 1.25lbs of weight savings there.

Got a recommendation on a traction aid? I looked at the yak-trax and I'm not sure if they would work all that well with the trail runners. Anybody with experience on that front?

I don't normally cook in the morning, but if the alcohol system is as simple as it seems I might just start. In which case the pocket flask/bladder would be a really nice idea.

Oh, got some aqua mira and tiny bottles on the way too. So, I should be dropping close to 1lb there. One tiny bottle will get used to repackage the tooth powder as well. I'll continue to update the packing list as new stuff gets verified weights.

[Hal Potts]

John,

I did a snow and ice tour of the Smokies back in December and could not have done it without Kathoola Microspikes for traction on the ice. With them it was like normal walking, without them I would have canceled the trip. I highly recommend them – they slip right over your shoes but are quite secure. I think crampons might be overkill but it would be great to have these in a pocket of your pack in case you needed them.

You may be in luck, I saw a pair listed for sale today on this site for $45. Good deal, they are normally about $80.

Hal.

[John Wozniak]

Thanks Hal! I was looking at those thinking they might be a good option. Unfortunately the ones on here would be too big for me. I'll be looking around for some though.

[CW]

I walked over a bunch of thick ice-covered trail in the Smokies the first of January this year with regular shoes and had no problems. Of course, YMMV.

Pack covers – I haven't used one in a couple of years in any conditions and have yet to get any of the gear stored in my pack liner wet. I also don't use dry sacks here in the SE.

Bear spray – I've only carried it in the Rockies.

Hard shell pants – I've never worn any. I do have a silnylon rain skirt now and have used it in the Rockies and it performed very well. It's also a lot lighter and a ton more breathable than a shell pant. During the Winter, I use a soft shell pant and no additional rain protection for my legs.

Down camp shoes – I used to be fine with socks but since I lost most of my body fat my feet and hands freeze now. 7 oz is pretty heavy though. Check out Goosefeet.

Stove – canister stoves work fine year round here. I've used them down to 10-12 degrees with no problems.

Filter – that Miniworks is heavy. There are lighter alternatives. I've used a gravity setup year round.

Bivy – the Alpine is overkill with the enclosed hexamid.

Bag and vbl – Do you have experience with a VBL? The bag could be lighter for the temp rating it achieves.

Camera – are you a photographer exploring the outdoors or just wanting to document your travels?

Food – this could be a lot lighter (on the order of 1/2 lb per day).

[John Wozniak]

– I'm still thinking about the ice cleats. Between trekking poles and pretty defined tread I might be okay without them. I'll have to think about it some more.

– In a wet snow, or sleet couldn't all the moisture permeate the bag and add weight to it?

– Pretty sure I'll go without any spray

– Yeah, the hard shell pants are heavier than I wanted, but with the integrated powder cuffs I hope to avoid carrying gaiters, and I like the full side vents on these since I do get pretty warm while hiking.

– The goosefeet look nice, I can't tell for sure but it looks like they don't have any kind of sole on them, I couldn't really wear them around camp. That's what I was hoping for with the WM ones, although they are heavier than I thought, I would have been happier with a lighter sole

– Going to try out a Caldera Cone for a lighter stove option

– Going with aqua mira for water treatment

– I could leave the doors for the hexamid at home. I think that would be my best option since I'll want the bivy for shelters. I know the bivy's a little heavy for use with the shelter, but I wanted to be able to use it independent of a shelter too

– No experience with the VBL, but worried about the loft of the bag on an extended trip if I don't use one. Should I be? The bag has a conservative rating of 20F and and "extreme" rating of -10F. I've personally been comfortable in the bag down to 0F, with only a base layer. Oh, that weight includes both collars too, I probably ought to weigh it with only the one I carry. Should drop 2-3oz.

– The camera is a luxury, I enjoy photography

– 14lbs. for 7 nights and 8 full days of hiking. I might spend up to 2 more nights on the trail depending on conditions. If I finish in 8 days, yes, it's probably too much. If I stay out for 10…?

[alan york]

Sleeping bag: That is a pretty fancy sleeping bag +combine it with down pants and coat + you'll never be cold.As soon as I get to camp or shelter I hang my bag in the wind to loft up & dry out.With shelters for the final stretch,you can hang it up in the dry each night when it might have the most moisture build up.VBL's are really clammy & smelly.
Food caches: If you had an extra half day you could drive to Fontana/Newfound/Smokemont & do the old paint can lined with plastic bag,filled with food,fuel,beer,clean socks, under some heavy logs.I've never had one tampered with.It just takes time.
Clothes: A pair of neoprene socks can be a lifesaver when it rains alot and the shoes are saturated.I love those 1 oz plastic rain ponchos as a 2nd rain smock.They cover you and the pack and add alot of warmth.Easy to vent by tearing the sides.Great to cover whatever you hang from the bear cables.

[John Wozniak]

That's a really good point, I hadn't thought about having a spot to air the bag out on the second half of the trip, even if the weather's not cooperating.

I had thought about dropping a cache, and for some reason I was thinking 20-mile, which would be kind of out of the way. But at the dam, I can basically just drive right up to the BMT-AT intersection? If the worst happened and it was gone, at least I'd be in a relatively populated area. Shouldn't be too hard to catch a ride from there. A metal paint can, I suppose?

What socks? Just glanced at a couple and only saw a weight on some patagonia's. Almost a pound!?

Yeah, I guess the poncho would be lighter, multi-purpose, and probably cover the pack better too (covering the vulnerable part between me and the pack).

[Alex H]

"What socks? Just glanced at a couple and only saw a weight on some patagonia's. Almost a pound!?"

Like these being discussed at this time on the forum

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=37723

[John Wozniak]

Thanks Alex, I was following that one. I think I like the idea of the MYOG wader actually. I'm going to see if I can put together something similar for use on this trip.

I made a bunch of changes to my gear list and posted it. The alcohol stove and aquamira came in, so I made those changes. Rebottled the aquamira and the tooth powder. Went for a razor blade instead of knife. I fixed the sleeping bag weight by removing the second draft collar. I added another category to my list for a weight cached. I'll plan on leaving a drop around Fontana. I don't know exactly how much I'll be able to stuff in a paint can, so some of the stuff listed there is excessive, but it's irrelevant because I'll just be exchanging items, not adding on to my base weight. I also separated out the camera and gps since they're luxury items. I thought it organized things a little better. I'm still trying to decide on the pack cover. I may still replace it for something lighter like a poncho. The FF jacket is on the way, they had it in stock so I should have it next week. And I'm going to pick up a couple of platypus bladders too.

How do you store a caldera cone? The edges are pretty sharp so I don't want to just toss it in the pack, but the sleeve they include is heavy so I don't want to use that either. I was thinking I could sand the edges enough that I can just slide it into my food bag without ripping the bag. Or maybe some lightweight end caps instead of the whole sleeve?

Weird, but when I pull up the gear list from a certain computer it still shows the old one. Can someone verify it's different? The new one should have 3 weight categories, since I added the "Cached" list.

[Ike Mouser]

Store it inside a dry sock

[Jolly Green Giant]

Just get the Trail Designs Sidewinder and it fits nicely INSIDE the cup along with everything else.

[John Wozniak]

The sock might work, I guess it won't tear up the wool too fast.

The sidewinder design seems less efficient to me. The sides of the pot are more exposed. Especially in cold weather where the temp. differential is pretty extreme I'd think the boiling time would increase.

Anyway, I've already got the standard cone with a tall pot. I guess I could modify this one to be the best of both worlds. Split the cone around the middle and then make a couple tabs so the top half could sit on the bottom half. The two halves would easily be short enough to fit inside the pot, and when assembled the whole pot would still fit inside the cone.

[Brad Rogers]

I cut a Gatorade bottle off and used it in conjunction with my cookpot to keep the Caldera Cone safe. That has worked for me for over a year with the cone still in great shape.

[Brad Rogers]

[John Wozniak]

That looks pretty good. I just checked doing that same thing with just the bottom half of the sleeve they sent with the cone. It actually slides into the pot perfectly. A little heavier (1.4oz) than the gatorade bottle, but I think I can trim it up a little bit. I'll try and take some pictures later. It fits the whole system too, stove, 8oz fuel bottle, cone, etc.

I chilled 2 cups of water to about 40F, and boiled it with 22mL of everclear. (happened to have some laying around ;)) Seems pretty good to me.

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