tarptent in the winter?

[Travis Leanna]

There are ways of pitching the Contrail to be much more wind-worthy. Seek out a fellow named Franco.

To completely write-off the Contrail just by this one experience is being a bit hasty. And comparing it to a Fly Creek is apples to oranges. Remember, each shelter has its intended purposes. The Contrail is a tried and true design that many people have good success with.

[Dont Wantto]

Sorry if this is a really stoopid question but I am precisely interested in why comparing tents like the Fly Creek to Contrail, Double Rainbow or the Scarp 2 is apples – to – oranges..

I understand the fly creek is double-wall and "freestanding" but so the scarp 2. In general, I don't see much comparison of Tarptents to mainstream tents like the fly creek , hubba hubba, sierra design tunnel design tents etc even when they weigh similar amounts, are both single/double walled, are free/non-free standing..

I'd really like to know what I am missing.

[Steven McAllister]

Double or single wall doesn't really determine how well a tent will hold up in wind.

It's more like are you willing to accept the loss of space and the extra weight of the double wall to have the benefit of possibly less condensation?

[Henry Shires / Tarptent]

>The woman with the contrail had her tent collapse from the wind every night. Winds 40-55mph every night.

By "collapse", I assume you mean the stakes pulled out? That's a stake problem or rather a mismatch between the stakes and the conditions. The Contrail puts a lot of stress on stakes and the included 6" stakes don't hold well enough in loose soil with wind. Our fault I suppose for not shipping it with beefier stakes. Longer/wider stakes are much better for that model when the wind is high and soil is loose.

-H

[Steven McAllister]

My opinion is with Henry.
The shape of the Contrail deflects wind, There are no tent poles to snap like you see with other designs and the only way it could collapse is if the fabric ripped, which I've never heard of. I suspect pegs pulled out and that is just a an issue with the way it was pitched.

[Ken Thompson]

What stakes was she using? Did she put rocks on top of them, try alternate methods? Did she learn nothing after pitching it to fall down later? How was it oriented into the wind? What stakes were the others using? What about site selection?

[Franco Darioli]

Going back to the OP, poor fellow he has been completely forgotten
Now the question was about using something like a Contrail in Nome in August and September.
Don't know much about the place but I don't think that you should expect heavy snow then.
The Contrail does need to be "optimised" and pitched correctly to work.
There are no perfect pegs. I have seen guys over at Outdoor Magic stating that they actually use and like the 1-2 g Ti stakes that most find totally useless, so why use pegs 10x heavier ? (and that is in the UK with their weather and all of that)
I carry several types of stakes, just in case. (Easton, Y and thick Ti nail)
These pictures have been uploaded before just to show how differently the Contrail stands up in the wind by "optimising"it a little bit.

The difference is one extra rear strut, lowered back , pegged on the side and having the front apex guyline in place. Note that the wind is blowing sideways into the broad side.
The "after" shot appears to be in calm weather, but if you look carefully you can see that the beak and the side panel to the mid tiedown point is bowed in, the wind in this shot was just as strong as in the other.
BTW, one of the members here has seen my Contrail in the wind. Not huge winds, but strong enough for the others to have their 4 season tents pitched behind trees and rocks , I was out in the open all by myself.

Franco

[Travis Leanna]

>Sorry if this is a really stoopid question but I am precisely interested in why comparing tents like the Fly Creek to Contrail, Double Rainbow or the Scarp 2 is apples – to – oranges..

No, not a stupid question. You just want to compare tents with very similar attributes. The Fly Creek is double walled, supported by a full pole structure, and free standing. That is much different than the single walled Contrail that uses one trekking pole for support (and two short struts in the back). Simply different structures. The comparison between the Fly Creek and DR or Squall is a bit more even, though I personally consider them in different classes of shelter. Not better or worse, just different.

[Ted E]

the tent froze due to condensation, so it was wet the next day, but we were fine.

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/3641/26110411688910165559250.jpg

im not sure if i would use it while it's snowing though. i would get a tarptent moment for that.

[Chris Mcintosh]

Sorry for the delayed response. My internets been out for a few days. But thanks everyone for the great advice. I have come to the conclusion that the contrail probably wouldn't be best for the arctic weather, but it brings a new question to mind. Should I purchase two tents? One for calmer weather and one for alaskan winters? Or could I find a tent that I could use in Nome that wouldn't be overkill to also use in Tennessee during the warmer months? I don't know how much insulation tents provide (if any) and how hot the tent might make me in the summertime.

[EndoftheTrail]

If you have the budget and if you hike such widely-different areas as Alaska and Tennessee — then you should buy different tents. It's why most all of us own multiple tents.

[Steven McAllister]

"the contrail probably wouldn't be best for the arctic weather"

I don't know, it seems to me that it is as good as most. It has slopped walls to deflect wind and allow snow to run off. It doesn't suffer form pole stress like dome tents do. It has integrated bug mesh and a bathtub floor.

What more could you want?

I know many who use a tarp/bivy combination in Alaska and swear by that as well.

[Alex Gilman]

Wouldn't you guys think he'd be better off with erroring on the side of safety in the Alaskan wilderness?

You know some of you guys should really shut up about your tarps once in a while.

CHECK OUT THE WEATHER:
http://www.rssweather.com/climate/Alaska/Nome/
If you scroll down you'll also see that August is the rainy season.
Having four solid draft free walls will keep you happy should you have to stay in.

AUGUST IN NOME AVERAGES 30% CHANCE OF SUNSHINE!

It is not impossible to get puked on by a snow storm in late August. You know… the kind that wrecks shop on your UL tent and then you're stuck going home and let's hope home isn't a 3 days walk.

Check these tents out:

Black Diamond HiLight
http://www.rei.com/product/798027
3 lbs. 2 oz. 4 Season Tent

MSR Hubba Hubba HP
http://www.rei.com/product/762726
4 lbs. 4 oz. – Just got a great winter camping review here on BPL.

[EndoftheTrail]

"Contrail… arctic winter… as good as most…What more could you want?"

Contrail for use in arctic winter — and it's as good as most? I totally disagree! I have never been through an Arctic winter… but I would want something to keep out the cold draft, for starters. The long, unsupported sides are very much suboptimal against strong winds / driven snow coming sideways, and it looks to do poorly in anything more than a moderate snow load.

I don't mean to criticize an awesome 3-season tarptent for not being a winter tent. Just emphasizing that it is not a winter tent.

[Misfit Mystic]

We are just offering suggestions, Alex. There are a number of members with a bit of experience in harsh conditions who only use tarps. Skurka is circumnavigating Alaska using an MLD Solomid, essentially a tarp. Dr. Jordan trekked 600 miles or so self-supported in Alaska using an Oware Alphamid, essentially a tarp. Mike Clelland uses tarps almost exclusively. So it can be done, and there are even benefits to using tarps in sub-optimal conditions.

Telling thread contributors to "shut up" isn't really conducive to open dialogue, nor is it in the communal spirit of these forums.

[Ike Mouser]

I would not take a tarp tent in such conditions either. It has its purpose, being 3 season, and it is at the top of the list for that. Its just too much of a risk when your life literally depends on your shelter. I could understand how a tarp itself would be a little more sturdy than the tarp tent. If tied off low to the ground, properly built and properly tied, i would have more faith in that. You could even reinforce the sides with snowpack or debris to prevent wind from getting to it. Lots of flexibility with just a tarp. But i would still recommend a real sturdy tent for his situation. Hilleberg, etc. Something strong and made to take high winds/debris.

Alot of this discussion also comes down to site selection. IT is the responsibility of hte user to find the proper site. If your pitched out in the open, unprotected, thats your fault. Find the right place to pitch first. Manufacturer's shouldn't be responsible for your unwise choice in that case.

ELE, everbody love everybody, its just tarps, relax!

[EndoftheTrail]

I wouldn't tell anyone to shut up… but given OP's specific mention of Arctic winter use — I do view this tarp chorus as downright irresponsible!

[Alex Gilman]

@ Scott perhaps my language came a bit strong but I have to agree with Ben's above statment 100%

Please don't throw Skurka in to this conversation as the "norm". We all know that guy's incredible and an expert. Sure things are possible but there's a point where bringing a tarp to the arctic becomes survivng and no longer camping.

For the rest of us recommending a tarp for these conditions is irresponsible. If it were winter I'd say bring a tarp and build a snow cave.

But it's going to be an overcast and wet fall. Where you can potentially wake up in the middle of the night to a blizzard.

This is one of the few times the "Boy Scout" be prepared mantra really pays off. I'm not telling him to bring a NF Mountain 35 @ 10lbs. Sure he *may* need it, but the chances of that are so low it's not an issue. However, the chances of a mid night flury ARE a realisic issue and one that he should be prepaired for.

[Misfit Mystic]

Sorry Ben, but I never caught the OP's mention of Arctic winter. I thought he was asking about August-September. No one has yet reccomended an appropriate tent for Arctic winter; how about a Hilleberg Tarra/Saivo? No tarptent, nor any other tent appropriate to lightweight backpacking, would survive winter above the Arctic Circle. But for three-seasons+, I stand by my assertion.

[EndoftheTrail]

"No tarptent, nor any other tent appropriate to lightweight backpacking, would survive winter above the Arctic Circle. But for three-seasons+, I stand by my assertion."

And Scott, I stand by your assertion as well!!

I re-read the thread title and first post. They mentioned "winter camping and Nome, Alaska" — which was my initial take — but now realize it also indicated Aug-Sept. While that wouldn't be "Arctic winter" quite yet — methinks September up there will likely be comparable to winter here in the Lower 48?? If so, then you and I both agree that the tarptent will not be optimal for winter use.

[Alex Gilman]

Scott you're right he did say Aug – Sept. …which is fall in Nome.

What are you trying to prove here anyway? That it is possible? YES, it is. No one is taking that away from you or arguing that.

I've done rescue diver training in some underwear in 40 degree water. Is it possible? YES! Would I rather have at least a wet suit to be comforable? HELL YES. In fact it's even better when I wear a DUI dry suit.

But please do us first responders a favor and don't ever base a gear recommendation or plan in harsh conditions on best case scenario.

[Misfit Mystic]

Not trying to prove anything Alex, just trying to be be clear on my points and to understand the points everyone brings up.

And as far as experience goes, I've been a first responder for years. 19 to be exact. Patroller, avy control, guide. I don't make assumptions about others' experience, i learned years ago it can be a humbling lesson. This is not about emotion or being right, it's about learning and gaining experience.

[Alex Gilman]

OK Scott I'm with you. Let's get it back on topic.

Downtown Nome Alaska: August – September

Average low and high temps
Aug 45.2°F 56.0°F
Sept 37.2°F 48.6°F

Precipitation:
Aug 3.23in.
Sept 2.51in.

With a very small yet very real chance of snowstorm.

I believe the OP should try bringing something like a BD HiLight 2. We all know it's been described as bomb proof and for the 8-10oz more of weight he gets a shelter he can rely on in really bad weather, doesn't have to deal with drafts and bad rain or snow. Which is great if weather turns to complete crap for a few days.

Also, I'm sure he's not going alone and it is possible to sleep 2 in it. Meaning there are potential weight savings.

What do you think he should bring?

[Bryce]

@Alex. I'm not sure what/who put you in a bad mood in this thread, but I hope you feel better soon. You probably have some valid content/experience to contribute, but it's getting lost in your delivery. A little tact goes a long way.

Nome, Alaska in Aug/Oct:

http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USAK0170

Average lows of 45F and 37F respectively. Not a big deal IMO. Even if it dropped into the high 20s, still not a big deal IMO with a decent 3-season shelter. I vote for tarps as there are no poles to snap under load and they have served me quite well when pitched properly in conditions including my winter camping in the Adirondacks. (a previous poster talked of using snow or duff to seal off the sides of a tarp when pitched to the ground…great idea, I use it all the time.)

Most of us use our own experience and go off that, and the rest of us trust forums like this for other people's opinions. To the OP, read up, check your gut, and go with what you are comfy with. GL.

[Rog Tallbloke]

"doesn't have to deal with drafts"

Except when cooking. Unless he buys the $140 vestibule awning for added weight and comfort.

"What do you think he should bring?"

Hex3 and a strong pole.

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