Soto OD-1R Canister Stove Product Review

[Roger Caffin]

> I think Roger gets more interested in Carbon Monoxide rather than Carbon Dioxide.
Well, with Rog and Dean looking after the CO2 market, there's no room left for me there … :-)

Anyhow, CO can kill, but you need CO2 to live.

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

> a) Soto reports 1 L boil times for regulated vs un regulated (needle valve)
> stoves for 3 temperatures (regulated first):
> 20C = 4:02/3:54
> 5C = 4:01/7:42
> -5C = 4:16/8:16 (min:sec)

OK, I am going to give this my full unexpurgated blast.
This is totally meaningless marketing spin. When companies come up with stuff like this my reaction is to assume that they are fudging everything.

Why? several reasons:

First, no test conditions are given. I can make any stove look the best by fiddling the test conditions. Dead easy.

Second, if the claim is to be taken at face value, it still has nothing to do with the regulator. Rather, it has to do with the gas flow settings and the burner face.

If you don't believe me, then I have some unique quantum crystals which will enhance your life and reduce your pack weights for private sale at really special prices …

> Soto also claims a 25% decrease in gas flow for an unregulated stove over 8 minutes.
Again, this is meaningless marketing spin. No test conditions are given. I can reproduce this under suitable conditions (like a nearly empty insulated canister) – but so what? Anyone who sets his stove and walks away for 8 minutes is a raving loony. Anyone with an ounce of sense monitors his stove while it is running, and adjusts it as needed. Straw man!

> with a nearly empty can, the fuel cooling effect may put you in the low canister
> pressure situation where the bigger Soto jet is significant.
I understand the theory, but experience says the effect is insignificant. I have emptied so many canisters in the field with my Snow Peak GST-100 (and many other stoves) without any problem at all. Let's look at this one in more detail.

First, there is the phase where the canister is nearly empty – just a little cold liquid left. OK, it's getting colder – so I put my hand on the canister for a minute to warm it up, or I pour a few teaspoons of luke-warm water over it. No problem. There are many ways to keep the pressure inside the canister fairly high.
Second, there is the brief phase when the liquid is all gone and all that remains is gas at pressure. This phase is very brief in practice. Just open the needle valve up. You are going to have to replace the canister very soon anyhow.

SOTO have produced a stove which has a different control valve. Obviously they want to sell lots of their product. So the marketing guys are set to work to come up with every great advertising story they can think of. But just because they have lots of stories does not mean any of them have real meaning, nor that we should blindly accept them. Crystal healing anyone?

In practice, in the field, there is no perceptible difference between the SOTO control valve (implemented with a micro-regulator) and any other control valve (implemented with a needle valve). They are all control valves. Read the technical section in the article on the Regulator valve to see why.

Cheers
PS: sorry James – by now I'm a professional cynic. :-)

[phil maher]

Hi Roger,

I never did get the ice water test…if it's still liquid, it aint frozen, and 32F just barely squeaks you down to the boiling point of the n-butane. How silly! And the "flag" goes up again. I want to buy one just so I can pop it and a canister in my freezer for a week and then see what happens (I won't ask you to join them, but always did want someone to tell me if the light goes out when you close the door…it might even be brighter with an OD-1R in there). Annecdotally…the local REI has a ton of these that have been languishing on their shelves for months now. If only I had so much faith in the average canister stove buyer…but alas, I'm sure they'll start flying out the door when the season gets going and everyone decides that the cool looking little stove is the one the want and need to get them through their frigid summer adventures.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Phil

Yeah, my understanding is that the REI order was what got them launched in the USA.

BUT, make no mistake about what I am saying. The OD-1R is a nicely-made stove, albeit with a slighty higher CO emission than I like. It's the marketing spin from the retailers which is total crap.

Cheers

[phil maher]

I fully agree- it is a well made little stove. But then again, so are many made by companies that have been doing this since well before 1992. Soto is guilty of allowing this to happen, either through omission, or by strategic plan. Clarification of the stove's true capabilities and limitations is their responsibility entirely. A sustainable reputation is built and maintained through the test of time, not by hype and capitalizing on misinformation down the retail chain. We have banks for that.

[Connie Dodson]

Okay, almost empty cartridge, runs smoothly, simmers.

For ordinary use, for backpacking, does it's job.

Don't use this stove in your tent.

I don't use any backpacking stove in an enclosed area.

[John Swarbrick]

Roger,

Have you measured the Co production of the appliance in a vitiation chamber? Or is the assertion the the Co production will be higher based on the fact the applaince is using a larger than 'normal' injector diameter??

[Hikin’ Jim]

Soto has or is about to introduce a new version of their Microregulator stove, the OD-1RX. Supposedly, from what I've read, they've reduced pot clearance in the new version in order to improve heat transfer in wind (indeed, the new version is referred to as "The Wind Master"). Reduced clearnance could be a bit of a problem in terms of CO production.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[stephen korpi]

My experience with the Soto Micro Regulator stove is limited to only several hundred uses in the Pacific Northwest. Using this stove at relative altitude and freezing cold temperatures, I can assure you that my experience is markedly different from the reviewer. In my opinion, the stove works exactly as advertised, and being involved in search and rescue, I have had the opportunity to compare it to many other stoves in the exact same conditions. I shove my canister into the snow, fire up the stove and sit back and relax while those around me are trying their best to keep their canisters warm, using insulated koozies, pans of water, or in the case of the Jetboil, holding it in their hands. The only downside I have experienced with this stove is that because of the regulator, the flame stays consistent until seconds before the canister is empty, rather than the extended drop in output on un-regulated stoves.

[Jerry Adams]

what about when those others shove their stoves in the snow?

[Ken Thompson]

I see that Stephen sells these stoves over at Mouuntainshop.net

Your first post here should have that disclaimer.

[stephen korpi]

Disclaimer: I work at a shop that sells the awesome things you use.

[Bob Gross]

"Disclaimer: I work at a shop that sells the awesome things you use."

That's great. I have lots of other friends who work at REI as well.

–B.G.–

[stephen korpi]

Jerry, In my experience, non-regulated canister stoves have a significant drop in heat output when the canister is subjected to freezing temperatures. Keeping the canister warm can mitigate this. Conductive heat loss from the snow is relatively easy to avoid. A homemade foil/foam koozie is lightweight and inexpensive, but it is most effective when you are starting with a warm canister to begin with, as it will not warm up a cold canister. Another method can be using a hand warmer in the concave depression on the bottom of the canister. You would still need some sort of insulator between the canister and the snow. You can also put the canister into a pan of liquid water. This will keep the canister above 32 degrees for a while until it freezes. I speak from experience because I have used all these methods for other stoves until I got the Micro Regulator. Since I don't have to worry about cold weather performance, all I have to do is shove my canister into the snow, and I have a perfectly stable stove to melt snow.

[stephen korpi]

REI certainly has it's market in more mainstream brands. Some of those brands have done a decent job with lightweight gear, with more to come in the future. For many people in the country, REI is the only place to put your hands on gear, but there are many cottage companies that do not sell to REI. If you to check out an ultralight tent, your options are ordering it online, or finding a small shop that supports those companies.

[Billy Ray]

for those interested in a pretty extensive review of the new SOTO Windmaster stove:

http://www.trailgroove.com/issue8.html?autoflip=59

there is a section in there where they connect it to a canister chilled to 0F…

Bill D

[Jerry Adams]

"You would still need some sort of insulator between the canister and the snow"

No, when the canister evaporates the butane inside the canister it makes it colder, so you need to conduct heat from the outside to make up for this.

32 degrees is warm enough to evaporate the isobutane that's in most canisters.

it needs to be something like 25 to 30 F to evaporate the butane, regardless of the stove.

SOTO stoves are supposed to be nice stoves though

[Bob Gross]

Jerry, if the snow temperature is +5 F, then you would be well served to insulate the canister from the snow. Think about it.

–B.G.–

[Jerry Adams]

"Jerry, if the snow temperature is +5 F, then you would be well served to insulate the canister from the snow. Think about it."

Upright canister gets colder from evaporation. You need to get heat from somewhere. Insulator won't work.

[Bob Gross]

"Upright canister gets colder from evaporation."

Agreed.

"You need to get heat from somewhere."

Agreed.

"Insulator won't work."

Jerry, that is not correct. An insulator like a piece of plywood is part of the solution. If you insulate the canister away from the colder snow… and then if you can introduce some extra heat, you have a solution.

The extra heat can come through a thick copper wire into the flame, or from the canister being extra warm to begin with, or holding a candle flame to it, or good reflection off the pot bottom. However, if cold snow is directly sucking the warmth out of the canister, it is a problem.

–B.G.–

[Jerry Adams]

Yeah, I've tried the copper wire trick before, that works good.

But a SOTO stove will have the exact same problem and solution, except maybe it works a little better at temps just above the minimum of 25 F.

[Jerry Adams]

It's hard to evaluate a test where the air temperature was 68 F and the canister was chilled to 0 F.

I chilled a canister to 0 F for some reason once and there was no pressure. But there was pressure pretty quickly when I took it out of the freezer.

They tested at 32 F, but it's routine to operate at that temperature

It would be nice to see a test within a few degrees of 25 F where a regular stove works, but very slowly

[Hikin’ Jim]

Does anyone know what size the orifice is in the jet of an OD-1R?

HJ
Adventures In Stoving
Hikin' Jim's Blog

[Hikin’ Jim]

Roger? No? :)

HJ
Adventures In Stoving
Hikin' Jim's Blog

[Roger Caffin]

Sorry Jim, I didn't measure it.

Cheers

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