Cuben / Down Quilt

[BlackHatGuy]

"I just finished #2."

Keep cranking them out Tim! :-)

[Tim Marshall]

Waiting on 27yds of cuben now for the next 3. There is enough cuben left over for me to have one!!

-Tim

[Rog Tallbloke]

Wow, business is booming!
The quilt looks awesomely lofty in Steven's review video Tim.

11oz – amazing.

Just a question about the design. Would it make more sense to put the momentum foot box circle to the inside to keep the outside fully waterproof against a damp tent wall? Or would the perspiration from feet be more of an issue?

Maybe offer either as a customer option depending on their shelter setup?

[Richard Nisley]

Tim,

A slight variation of your current design might find strong interest in the hammocking forums for use as an under-quilt.

The momentum strip would be against the hammock bottom and so moisture ingress shouldn’t be an issue. The Cuben exterior should negate the need for a separate undercover to protect the down in stormy conditions.

[Tim Marshall]

Rog,

Momentum on the inside and cuben on the outside will trap body vapor inside the quilt soaking the down, bad news.
Also, the version that uses a zipper and drawcord has less momentum on the bottom to contact the tent walls. I'll get some pics up soon so you can see the difference.

Richard,

One of the quilts i have coming up is going to be used as an underquilt. I don't think the momentum needs to be inside, again vapor will enter in with the down and not be able to get out soaking the down. I'm not sure how snow or water will be able to get at the 8" stripe on the outside as it will be the direct center of the bottom of the hammock. Does rain fall up in other parts of the world? :)

I think the quilt should perform fine with the small breath-ability stripe centered under the sleeper on the outside. The rest of the quilt is waterproof so it should offer much more protection than an underquilt with a breathable shell.

-Tim

[Richard Nisley]

Tim,

I believe that some of the water hitting the edge will roll to the lowest point. That point would be the Momentum if it were on the outside bottom.

[Tim Marshall]

i hear ya, i would be more concerned with having the strip inside though. Yes some water could collect on the outside, but momentum had a very good DWR and it won't be often that enough water got on the strip to create problems. However, if the strip is inside every time it gets used there is the danger of body vapor getting into the down. Unless the hammock is waterproof, then by all means use the momentum inside!

-Tim

[Tim Marshall]

here are a few crappy pics of the new one with the zippered footbox. You can see much more of the foot is now cuben offering more wetness protection.

[JT Croteau]

Oh, that's a nice one Tim. That came out very well.

[Gary Boyd]

I'm wondering what you might estimate the total weight of a sewn through down/cuben/momentum jacket in medium with 2 oz of fill would be? The cuben would make it somewhat like a vapor barrier article of clothing, you could have pit ventilation and maybe a quarter zip. I could see that blowing away the weight of a Montbell EX. Do you think this would be a worthwhile project, and can you estimate the cost? It could have momentum in the back and along the front much like the racing stripe design. Since a puffy is used mostly during inactivity you don't have to worry to much about sweating. And on second thought maybe full length zip would be a better option. Do you think .33 cuben would be ok for this kind of use given TLC equal to that for a Montbell EX?

[Tim Marshall]

as a jacket the fabric might be too light. As a quilt it is stuffed until pulled out under shelter, then stuffed away again. It is never out of the *safety* of the shelter. The jacket would be more prone to touching or bumping into objects which would lead to fabric failure.

Also, i don't make clothes. Too complicated for me at this point. If you were going to make yourself a Whitney from thru-hiker you could use .48 cuben from quest instead of the momentum in the kit.

The only way i could calculate the weight is if i knew the amount of materials to be used.

-Tim

[Tim Marshall]

for those concerned with the momentum stripe getting water in it, either as an underquilt or in a minimal shelter I can use EPIC for the breathability stripe instead. The EPIC isn't 100% waterproof but is more so than momentum. I could also use a light waterproof Breathable fabric. These options will add a little weight but since the stripe is so small it shouldn't add much. Just an FYI.

However, the quilt may loft slower.

-Tim

[JT Croteau]

I just gave Tim the go-ahead to substitute EPIC for the racing stripe on the winter quilt he is making me. =)

[Tim Marshall]

question for JT, and all.

IF the round part of the foot is 1/2 cuben 1/2 epic it will still fully loft and the cuben will better protect the foot from condensation. If the top 1/2 is cueben that is the part most likely to bump the shelter.

Does this idea have merit?

-Tim

[JT Croteau]

"Does this idea have merit?"

Definitely and 1/2 and 1/2 is something I was thinking of myself. Would you have enough extra cuben from my materials order to try it?

[Tim Marshall]

enough cuben? oh yes my son i have cuben, well i will!!! muahaha

-Tim

[Steven Evans]

I got back on Sunday from 5 nights using my cuben/down quilt. I want to be pretty specific with what I used as sleeping gear so that others can decide if this is for them. I slept every night in these clothes…

Bottom:
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442626688&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302699185&bmUID=1253043432856

Top:
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302699185&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442627336&bmUID=1253043438193

Feet:
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302734307&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442617725

On the last 2 nights, I used VB socks:
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302734333&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442586369

And used my cut neoair with a PG Sheet underneath, along with my montbell pillow.

Temps didn't get too low, we had very warm weather for the area, with probably lows at night around 5*C (40*F).

First off, the quilt is so warm. I love getting under that thing and bundling up in the evening…no worries about staying warm.

After 5 days, I was getting a pretty good idea of how to work this thing. I would vent about 2 – 3 times a night for approximately 30 seconds. It wasn't even required as long as you just left the sides of the quilt untucked a bit to let some heat escape. I know it sounds hard to believe, and maybe I'm just used to VB's but I have no issues with condensation except for the footbox. This requires you to take your feet out and actually fluff the inside as it gets a bit wet in the corners and stuff. The VB socks obviously stopped this problem, but added 2.2 ounces to my pack weight so it's really not the solution. Looking at the quilt above, I think the drawstring is the answer.

The weather was nice during the day but wow did I get condensation in my Refuge X each night – the tent was soaked the whole week. Literally raining on me in the morning if I hit the walls. The cuben, being waterproof, didn't let any water enter the baffles so there were no issues there. By the end of the trip, I did notice that the bag/down looked damp but didn't notice a performance issue – my buddy with his hydrogen noticed the same. I think any bag would be damp after those conditions. Hung it up when I got home and put it away today dry as a bone.

I give this quilt the S.Evans seal of approval! :)

[Tim Marshall]

steve,

I'd be willing to make you some cuben VB socks, that shouldn't add much weight to your kit. Just e-mail me about what you want. Maybe a few grams each. since the entire quilt shell is 3oz, not much more than your current VB socks.

-Tim

[BlackHatGuy]

I would think that a tarp over the hammock, if properly deployed, would preclude water hitting the edge and rolling down to the bottom of the underquilt. Even if it did, wouldn't it just continue down, dripping off the quilt and falling to the ground instead of soaking up into the quilt, especially with the DWR on the momentum? If the water is hitting the hammock itself on the ends, then I'd think it would drip down to the inside of the quilt, the cuben side up against the hammock bottom, instead of jumping to the outside of the quilt (since the quilt isn't all the way up to either end of the hammock).

Don't know that any of that is true, just conjecture on my part. I'll know better when I test it!

[BlackHatGuy]

"I'd be willing to make you some cuben VB socks"

Are you taking orders for cuben VB socks now? :-)

[Tim Marshall]

As for the socks, I am offering them to Steve since a design change in the quilt has fixed the problem of footbox condensation. His quilt has the old footbox so i thought i'd make him a quick fix for that. I can make VB socks if people want. I don't have any patterns or designs for them, but am sure i can knock some out easily enough.

-Tim

[Steven Evans]

Tim,
Did you finish any more quilts? I'm dying to see the frost killer. I've had a few more nights on mine and it is working awesome. I love looking at my gearlist and seeing 11 oz for my sleep system.

VB socks…gonna send you an e-mail.
Steve

[Tim Marshall]

I was just joking with the "Frost Killer" name, don't want that to stick as fast as WLQ did (look for a change in name upon the opening of my webstore, still a few months out)

Steve, i have done 3 more i think, with one finishing up as i write this. 2 of them are basically what you got but with the zippered foot and one is a little wider. The other one is a double quilt that can be separated by a central zip and both halves can be worn by the user similar to the JRB wearable quilts. It weighed 24.9oz, used 16oz of down and had 2.4" of loft. It shipped the other day to Japan (2 quilts to Japan, 1 Canada, 1 USA) so hopefully there will be reviews soon.

The frost killer sadly isn't going to be made as the customer got injured and had to back out of the purchase. That said i have most of the materials on hand for it if you, or anyone else, is interested in a CUBEN shelled down quilt with ~3" loft

I also plan to offer the cuben fabric with my line of climashield synthetic quilts. This will make these extremely light weight extremely warm quilts much more affordable with an increase in moisture resistance, but also in bulk.

-Tim

[BlackHatGuy]

Just got my quilt in the mail this morning! Psyched. Will take it out this weekend because, well, I have to! It won't be quite cold enough to give it a real test, but I'm taking it anyway and using it in my hammock. Will be VERY toasty! Will post a quick 'initial thoughts' when I get back, but the short review will come after I'm out for a few more weekends and it's a bit colder. I'll be using it as a top quilt in the hammock (where it should really shine since there's a decent bit of air moving through), an underquilt on the hammock, and a top quilt in my bivy/SpeedMid on a NeoAir.

Woohoo!

[Mark Andersen]

Tim–this quilt (in the pics from Nov. 9, 2009) looks like the kind of thing I'd like to make for my 3-season (or summer+shoulders, in the high country) quilt. I have some DWR ripstop that's around 1.13 oz./yd. I also have some ~0.8 oz., uncoated ripstop, but not sure if that would be sturdy enough…

It looks like this quilt is simply a rectangle, with zippers that go outward from the center of the foot area and maybe a few feet up the sides to form the footbox…? Any other descriptions or dimensions posted on this quilt, or are these trade secrets?

In the shoulder seasons around here, it's not unusual to be in the mid- or low-30s, so I'd like the quilt to work down to 25 or 30, with some layering. Looks like 3.7 oz. Combat might work for this, but I'm also thinking about down, and wondering how much loft I'd need.

I like the rectangular design, because I think I could over-insulate the quilt, and still use it in warmer weather by opening it up and using it like a blanket. Any guidance on sizing? I'm 6'0', around 165 lbs., but wide at the shoulders. I also have big feet (size 13), so the footboxes on most sleeping bags are usually too snug for me.

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