Cuben / Down Quilt

[Steven Evans]

Frank,
I think Tim summed it up pretty good. It is a specialized product for sure, and although I have no testing as of yet, I assume it would be much warmer (as Tim stated) then an equivalent one made with quantum fabric. That being said, I really need to get out there. :)

Matt,
Everything is cuben except for the strip of M90 down the center. Tim and I bounced a number of ideas back and forth before the sewing started. I actually relied alot on Tim's experience/knowledge with sewing and fabrics for the most part. Originally, I had thought of using cuben (maybe even 0.6) only for the top and bottom, with M90 on the sides, and netting for the baffles. After discussing back and forth we decided on the .33 cuben with just a strip of M90 on the top and cuben baffles. I thought maybe it wouldn't be breathable enough to let air loft the quilt but it works fine. The cuben is so light, it just plumps up.

Brad,
The quilt is obviously more fragile then others out there but I'm pretty used to using lightweight gear and don't think it will be a problem. Might not be a good product for a younger kid but for most of us on here that treat our gear like it's our girlfriend, it will be fine. :)
Rolling is definitely the way to go to pack it. If you stuff it, it tends to balloon up as air gets caught in the baffles and stuff. I should post a pic of it in my compression sack.

[Steven Evans]

A couple more pics for those interested. Easily packs into a medium BPL Spinsack Nano. You could compress it more if you wanted, but that's the sack I usually use for my sleeping gear. It measured roughly 15" x 6.5" in the stuffsack. Total weight was 320 grams (8 grams for the stuffsack). I tried to find something to put beside it to give you some sort of size comparison and felt that the IVBMS (International Vodka Bottle Measurement System) was the most widely used.;)

Stuffed quilt with 750ml (.8 quart or 25 oz or .2 gallon) Vodka Bottle beside it..can't remember how you guys measure your booze?

320 grams with the stuffsack (stuffsack weighs 8 grams)

I pulled the quilt out of the stuffsack at 10:07, fluffed it and snapped this picture at 10:10…about 3 minutes of lofting gets you here….really doesn't take long.

Enjoy!

[Tom Peterson]

And I'm not just talking about the quilt – although it looks great! The thought put into the design vs. vapor issues is real artistry. Tim, you've got a gift.

[Brad Groves]

Tim, if you're still wondering how to baffle a footbox… I'm not sure how well I can explain it, but here goes.

Sew together the shell like normal. Cut out your inner and outer end footbox panels. Align as needed and sew so raw edge will project to the down-filled area of the bag. Just so the footbox panel into each respective shell piece (ie, just sew the outer panel to the outer shell piece. Kind of invert the shells so that you have access to the raw-edged seams. Sew baffling to the seam allowances. I used a continuous piece of baffling around three main edges, leaving one short side unbaffled so I could stuff the panel. Then I used a short strip of baffling to seal that. To keep loft through the length of the footbox, ie as you go up the bag to the zipper, you can do one of two things. You can try the same raw-edges inside, baffle together. Or I just sewed the innermost shell raw edges in, then sewed the outer shell raw edges inward–and didn't mess with baffling there, since I had baffles running right up to those edges anyway.

Hope this helps some!

[Tim Marshall]

What we ended up with started out from Steven's idea for a cuben lined quilt. I have never used VB, and except winter, early early spring and late late fall doubt it will be part of my gear list. All i added to the design was some insight on how to manipulate the design to use more of the cuben and less of the momentum and cut out the mesh. Steven always had plans for it to be VB.

As much as the design is a hybrid of our ideas it wouldn't exist if Steven hadn't brought his initial ideas to the table.

-Tim

[Tim Marshall]

the only area of the footbox i need help with is the baffle that exist in the circle of many quilts. I got the circle to sides baffled and it was much easier than i expected. I just couldn't figure out how to get a horizontal baffle across the circle.

-Tim

[Roger Caffin]

> a horizontal baffle across the circle.
Across the middle of the circle so there are two semi-circular sections in the footbox?

Cheers

[Rog Tallbloke]

Steven, Tim,
I'm amazed how lofty that looks compared to mine with the same amount of down in. Though of course in mine it is spread over a considerably bigger area. Tim, did you use the same baffle height and spacing?

I've decided to add some down. The weather in the UK is just too unpredictable. I have an old Sierra Designs down ski jacket which is way too warm for the UK. It's also very heavy having a tough nylon outer shell so I won't be using it for backpacking any more. I don't know how much fill it has, or it's fill value, but I reckon there is 6oz or so. I'm hoping another 3 1/2oz will make my quilt look like yours. That'll bring it to a similar weight to the golite ultra 20 long, or just under twice the weight of this amazing quilt. But that's ok, I'm a big guy, I can shoulder it. :-)

The need to add more fill is not a reflection on Tim's excellent work, it's due to me chopping and changing my mind about the role I want my quilt to fulfill. I originally specced a summer quilt with Tim, but I'd like to extend it to being a 2-3 season quilt using a lighter sleeping pad in summer. That way, I can get overall kit weight down.

[Tim Marshall]

Rog, yours had 6oz down not 8. The baffles on this quilt are 1.5" yours were like 3/4 i think. These baffles are 6" i think yours were 5. I planned to do 5 but got nervous about having enough cuben, i used almost every bit of 5yds.

-Tim

[Tim Marshall]

Yeah roger, how do i make the 2 semi circle baffles and still baffle it into the quilt. I had to cut out the baffle because i couldn't figure out how to make it work.

-Tim

[Brad Groves]

Couldn't you just baffle up the "lower" half of the footbox periphery, then sew in a horizontal baffle, then sew up the rest of the periphery? I suppose you could even do two baffles/3 chambers that way, but… Vertical baffles would be more difficult to work…

[Steven Evans]

Do the bottom of footboxes usually have a baffle? I didn't think it was required. I haven't truly looked closely, but I don't think my Arc AT has a baffle on the footbox.

Do other Nuna quilts have them?

p.s. we're talking about the round circle portion on the footbox that the bottom of my feet would touch (if my toes faced the sky).

[Rog Tallbloke]

> Rog, yours had 6oz down not 8

Steven's has got 8oz of down in and weighs 11oz? Wow, double wow. Sobering to think his shell material is 4 times lighter than mine in total.

Ok, well I feel better about needing to add a bit of down to mine now anyway. :-)

[Tim Marshall]

I didn't add the baffle once it got confusing because at this small size of footbaox it is less important. Not sure if the nunaktak quilts use on, but my MH Phantom has it as do every other down bag i've ever seen. Again the size of this footbox keeps it from being an issue. I just want to learn how to do it.

-Tim

[Tim Marshall]

Brad, I though ABOUT doing what you suggest but couldn't figure out how to leave a hole to add the down.

-Tim

[Nicholas Miller]

When I made a circular footbox with baffled sections I took some pictures of the process. I'll try to dig them up and post them. I ended up making the circular piece as a stand-alone since it was added after the completion of the quilt. I think making it integrated with the quilt construction would both simplify and complexify the baffling, or rather just change it.

[hunter nelson]

ATTENTION TO THE PEOPLE ON THIS SITE!
i was looking at a 2 oz vest that was made of the same substance the shiny survival blankets are made of. the vest had small valves to blow in to and the vest would fill with air and insolate you keeping you warm.

has any one ever considered a sleeping bag or quilt that fills with air? before people thought cuben fiber bags and quilts were a bad idea but look now! it has great potential and if any one can put one together its the community on this site. imagine a cuben bag that inflates and has tims stripe down the middle with down, its like not having any down in the white parts of the cuben quilt.

im going to make a thread and I think we should all combine ideas and try to come up with a prototype or something. if we can get good enough good ideas i would be willing to find a way to get the thing made.
i will name the thread BUILD THE LIGHTEST SLEEP SYSTEM it will be up in the next day or two

if this works it will result in the LIGHTEST SLEEP SYSTEM

[Rog Tallbloke]

Heh, great minds think alike Hunter. Just this morning I got a lightweight poly dust sheet that I'm going to make into an inflating quilt, with adjoining mattress sleeving for balloons to fit in.

[Kevin Beeden]

Going by my experience of simple inflatable mattresses used as sleeping mats (and how cold they are), I suspect that you'll get too much convection within an inflatable quilt, so it won't insulate that well. Down not only provides loft, but also reduces the air circulation within a quilt.

I'd be very happy to be proved wrong, though… Have fun.

[Rog Tallbloke]

Yep, I'm planning a multilayer affair with some additional insulation. First estimate has it coming out at around 250g or around 9oz. Then we'll see how warm it is. Sure won't be expensive to find out anyway.

[Steven Evans]

Rogers, how are you going to inflate the quilt? I have been looking for air valves and can't find them. I was going to buy some cheap waterwings and cut them out but maybe you have a better source?

Also, how inflated will the quilt be? I'm picturing it just enough so it still conforms to the body or else it would be like sleeping with a DAM on top of you.

Maybe better to start a new thread on it so as not to dirty up this one.

[Rog Tallbloke]

New myog thread started.

[Tim Marshall]

Steven,

Have you got to use the quilt yet? Any feedback?

-Tim

[Steven Evans]

Tim,
Sadly, I have not…I did have a nap in it a few days ago on my patio. :)

I tried to get away this weekend but I'm stuck at my desk finishing up some work.

Thought I might be able to duck away next week one night but had some stuff come up.

Next available time for me (right now anyway) is the 14th to 15th next week. Will try my best to get away. Sucks having new gear and not being able to use it.

You'll get a kick out of a post my buddy showed me from the hammock forums. They were discussing the quilt. I don't think he likes me…:(

Look at his avatar, he's proud of his MLD Poncho Tarp. If someone is happy laying on a rock under a teeny, weeny, little poncho tarp then I don't pay too much attention to them.

[Steven Evans]

Tim, there is no baffle on the bottom of my Arc AT footbox, but I can't speak for the other Nuna products.

And for clarification – I've had a few e-mails asking…. The material used in the quilt is not actually white, it is standard clear(think blurry) cuben fiber and the reason it appears white is because of the down inside. The reason why you can't see the down clearly in the baffles is in fact because the material is "blurry"…you see where I'm going here? :)
So, the overall effect is a quilt that looks like it is made from white material but is in fact clear with white down fill inside. I have a close up but it doesn't really do my explaination justice.

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