KEN KNIGHT IS MISSING ON APPALACHIAN TRAIL IN VA

[James Walke]

"Never did anything"? What are you talking about? If you had not been there, who would have rocked that mesh shirt to represent the UL community?

Seriously, Don, I think just talking to his parents about past trips provided a degree of comfort equal (or beyond) going out with a team. I know that seeing his friends come from far and wide meant a great deal to them.

[Derek Anderson]

I think it was also great that many of his friends and family traveled a very long way to help look for him.

[Timothy Foutz]

Hey Nate you are as big an idiot on this as everything else. Everything is about politics with you. You are nothing but a typical whining leftist. You want to take shots at people in Virginia pal come hear and do it on the ground. You will find we don't take well to being insulted by leftists from a shall we say manhood challenged part of California.
One more thing you leftwing idiot 60 percent of the budget is not spent on the war. The bulk of the goverment spending is used for social programs and education and whatever other scams you leftists have inflicted on us.

Timothy:
A somewhat rash and intemperate personal attack which has resulted in several people very quickly Reporting your posting. Oh Dear.
Let's all try to retain a sense of humour and good will?
Cheers
Roger Caffin
Online Community Monitor
Backpacking Light

[cary bertoncini]

timothy – i think you forgot to count to ten first.

nate wasn't criticizing virginia in general, just the trolls.

btw – my dad was born there, my mother lives there & i completed my military training there. there are many wonderful things about virginia and many wonderful people there, just like there are many wonderful things about california and many wonderful people here.

btw, nate is one of those wonderful people, even though he's not from california :)

[Lawton G]

Ditto what Dave T said.

Ken we are all glad you are alive and well . . . and quite relieved!

-Disco

[W I S N E R !]

Positivity…seriously.

I don't know Ken, but I think anyone that spends any time in the backcountry can empathize with the situation that him and his family and friends just went through.

Cheers and keep trekkin' Ken!

[Dave .]

Firstly, I'm glad Ken Knight was found. I'm also glad that BPL could mobilize its resources to help in the rescue efforts.

That said…

Timothy Foutz, wow what to say? Can you maybe provide a working definition for "whining leftist"? How about a working definition for intolerant bigot? Maybe, while you're at it, you could do me a favor and provide some sort of substantive evidence that the bulk of the US budget is spent on social programs?

Clearly, whatever is being spent, it wasn't enough to educate you, was it Tim?

I hardly post here anymore. BPL seems haunted by gear fetishists and trolls these days. I rarely learn anything here anymore. But I was well pleased that BPL could help rescue Ken. Too bad he has to come home to this kind of sh*t.

[Mark Eggeman]

I just wanted to take a moment to thank Ryan Jordan and the others who assisted us with the search for Ken. I know you had to tolerate a lot of questions and long interviews, but your insight as to Ken's routines and hiking habits were a huge advantage to us. Thanks again for all of your help, and please convey our best wishes to Ken.

Kind Regards,
Mark Eggeman
VA. State Search & Rescue Coordinator

[Ken Helwig]

Timothy, have you ever been to California? Orange County which seems to be about half of Los Angeles as well as the bread basket area of our state ie The Central Valley vote conservative. Oh, we also have a Republican Gov. too. Your damnation of all things California sounded rather heavy handed and not too informed. I think that the next time you spout off about politics, you should get a degree in it first, then you and I can talk trade so to speak. I have been to Virginia many times passing through on I-95. Richmond is a wonderful place and the scenery is quite beautiful. I really feel the shot you took at Nate was not cool. BTW he is a California transplant, like alot of people that live here. Which means that he is from another state.
Signed, your bleeding heart liberal.

PS It must bum you out that Obama is doing a good job huh?

[Kathleen B]

Here's an article from an Ann Arbor newspaper that has a little more information about what happened to Ken.

http://www.mlive.com/news/annarbornews/index.ssf?/base/news-32/124144804992460.xml&coll=2

[Misfit Mystic]

Mr. Eggeman the thanks go to you and the rest of VA SAR, and to all the others across the country, tirelessly working to ensure happy endings!

[Paul Haan]

The emotions from this weekend are beginning to settle and before this thread goes dead I’d like to share a few observations which may be instructive to those interested in learning.

I am one of Ken’s friends from Michigan who went down to VA to help in the effort. I can tell you I was blown away by the professionalism and the response of the VA SAR groups. The systematic, evidence-based way that they approached this search made me very confident in their efforts to find Ken — but that did not relieve my emotions when it came to imagining what condition he might be in when found. Nothing could address my emotions other than finding him.

As others have pointed out, Ken needs to accept the assistance and interactions of other hikers, even if it is not welcomed or uncomfortable. That is one lesson that should be learned to avoid a re-occurrence for Ken as he rightfully continues his hiking.

I would like to address some other decision points from which any of us who hike in groups can learn… not Ken’s actions, but the actions of those around him. Actions which certainly were not causal in nature, but which certainly impacted how events unfolded.

I have lead group hikes in the past and will continue to lead them in the future, but I know I will do them a little differently from this point on. Following are some of the things I will do as a result of lessons learned.

1) I will require participants to clearly state any medical, personal or other pertinent limitations that they may have that will impact the group hike. I will also inform the participant that this information will be shared with all other participants should they choose to join the group hike.

2) I will share this information on individual limitations with all others in the group in advance, and will review these issues at the pre-trip briefing.

3) I will strongly encourage group participants to be mindful of the whereabouts of their fellow hikers at all times. Personally, I believe this business of “I’ll meet you at the shelter” should be reserved for casual acquaintances met along the trail, but not for organized group hikes. I don’t personally ascribe to the “we’re a group but we’re all hiking independently” philosophy. Either we’re a group or we’re not, and everyone needs to know EXACTLY where things stand.

4) At exit, I will require the whole group to stay put until all hikers are out. One of the biggest factors in delaying the search for Ken was the fact that the group disbanded and then later needed to make group decisions about what could of possibly happened.

I know many of us hike with people we have never or barely met before. In the future, I know I will be more careful in assessing the dynamic being established in a group and will do what I can to foster accountability.

When I met Ken as he was exiting the hospital, one of his more astounding comments was when he said he thought people were looking for him as soon as Monday, maybe even Sunday night. When we pointed out that that was far from the truth, he was absolutely shocked. After getting off the trail, he did many things right (staying put, making sure he had water, shelter, etc.). Had there been closer tabs upon his location and a more prompt identification of the fact that he was lost, I am certain that he would have been located much earlier and with much fewer resources expended. And I don’t think that is an unreasonable expectation to have of the hiking community.

I would encourage all of us to continue to follow this situation as the facts now unfold and more objective lessons are learned. I encourage everyone to think “how does this apply to me? And what can I do better as a result of this shared experience?” We can all do some reflecting upon what it means to be a hike leader, a group participant, and a member of the hiking community.

Please don’t take this missive as an attempt to place blame on any one person. I will admit that I have broken all of these lessons learned in the past just like anyone else. I’m simply broadcasting these thoughts in the hopes that we can all learn something from this experience.

Lastly, I’ll be joining many of Ken's freinds in making sure that Ken is making an objective assessment of this experience, learning from it, and changing behavior. And I have the good fortune of being able to do that in person!

Hike safely!

Siler
GAME’00
LT’01

[Ron Hedlund]

Siler, you make many very well reasoned statements of fact and opinion. It was truly a pleasure to work with you Saturday. It is not always a good situation to have friends of the subject tag along on mission tasks, but that was not the case with you.

I have a lot of respect for you and your abilities, and should I ever have the opportunity in the future, I would enjoy your company on a hike. And please personally, extend my best wishes to Ken.

[JR Redding]

As an ex Paramedic & SAR person, I agree with your assessments. Not knowing the full story, and even now not knowing it but getting the jist of it, I questioned why he had been missing since Sunday without being reported, or where was his group? I am glad Ken had the knowledge to do the right thing and stay put and that he is now safe.

Kudos to all who stepped up to the plate to find Ken. Mission accomplished :)

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

Siler,
wise words. I couldn't agree more. Everyone should reflect on his or her role in what has happened during this week and should consider ways to prevent that this can happen again.

[John S.]

The Sierra Club will train people to lead trips for free (except for some leadership seminars and partial cost of wilderness first aid) and they go over all of what Siler mentioned.

[Ron Hedlund]

There were many dynamics at play here, from what I have learned from post-reports and from e-mails received from hiking party members.

I feel confident Siler and other friends, family and boss will prevail.

The blogging has certainly been more dramatic and less focused than the searching. :)

[Tony Burnett]

Here's a link from a member of Ken's "group" about when/why they started the search.

In short, it doesn't sound like there was a "leader" for the trip. Just more of a shuttle organizer. Everyone was on their own. If they left early or stayed late, they were on their own. There were no expectations that someone in the group would even be aware of your location on the trail and/or if you went home early.

[greg osborne]

i have to say one thing, the main thing ken is safe and is in good health. I was also on the search for him all night friday into early morning hours, and all day saturday.the other thing is that ken did the right thing by staying put and trying to signal for help. knowing the terrain and were he was with the over cast its hard enough for hikers as is to go through a few sections. there was one climb that was 3,157 ft in a 8 to telve mile spand, w/ alot of deep drainages. 300+ acres to search was a large task for the area. his friends and family giving intell to VASAR was a big help and much thanks to them.And would like to add one thought for all hikers, if ever lost (hopefully never) a loud whistle goes a long ways, three long blast signals for help. and dont be afraid to ask for it. life in its self is to short not to give up a egoe. and to ken much much respect to you i know personly i couldn't have done what you have.

[Devin Montgomery]

>I would encourage all of us to continue to follow this situation as the facts now unfold and more objective lessons are learned. I encourage everyone to think “how does this apply to me? And what can I do better as a result of this shared experience?”

To me, it sounds like this group of hikers had very different expectations about what it meant (and therefor what would be done) if one of them didn't show up at a given shelter each night.

The big takeaway from that, I think, is that we do need to make those that may depend on us and those we may depend on (it's a two way street) quite aware of our expectations. They're not always the most pleasant discussions to have, and require some give in our egos, but they are certainly important. As hikers more more towards a cohesive group, it requires more accountability, but provides more security. As they move towards hiking alone, there's more autonomy, but also the necessity for more self-reliance. Either way, its most important that people know their status, so they can act accordingly.

[Brandon Cocke]

My name is Brandon Co cke, Lieutenant of the Big Island Vol. Fire Department here in Central Virginia. I have been reading these posts and would like to add a little bit of personal knowledge. I would also like to answer a couple of questions about the fire, and subsequent "find" of Mr. Knight.

Yes, the fire was contained at approx. 2 acres of land. But, the reason the fire was this size was due to the fire department, not Mr. Knight. The fire had gotten into a very rocky, and steep area of the mountain. Due to these conditions a fire line was dug around the fire, and in some places a good distance from the fire. The fire was then allowed to burn to the fire line, and let the fire extinguish itself. Take away the fires fuel, the fire can't continue to burn. This is how all wildland fires are contained, not by using water. Unfortunately this does increase the over all size of the fire, but it is very effective.

And now for the "billing" and "costs" that so many people have talked about. This company is a very proud 100% volunteer department. We have never, and do not plan to ever bill a person for fighting a fire, of any kind. And being that I was the officer in charge of the fire that Mr. Knight started, I do not foresee this changing now. As for Mr. Knight starting the fire, no one in this company has any hard feelings toward Mr. Knight for his actions. If I were in the same position, I would have done the exact same thing. Big Island Vol. Fire Company has the privilege of serving two counties, The County of Amherst and the County of Bedford (where we are stationed). Both communities are very good to the company and they make sure we are funded to purchase equipment, and tools for these types of calls. Not to mention that it just wouldn't be right to send any "customer" or our services a bill.

I would like to also add that Mr. Knight did indeed walk out of the woods and get into the ambulance under his own power. This was amazing to me considering everything he had been through. To Mr. Knight: Central Virginia is in the middle of "The Bible Belt". And though the community of Big Island did not personally know you, please know that tons of prayers were said for you. We were all extremely happy that you came out without any injury.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Brandon

Welcome to Backpacking Light.

We do appreciate you letting us know about why the fire reached 2 acres. Fwiiw, I have been a member of our local volunteer bushfire brigade here in Australia (where I live), and I understand exactly what you are saying about making a containment line around the fire. We fight fires that way too.

I think I can speak for Backpacking Light and its members in saying a big thanks to you and your brigade members for your assistance in helping Ken. We do appreciate it.

Yours
Roger Caffin
Senior Editor for Technology
Backpacking Light

[Dan Cunningham]

Brandon, my hat is off. People like you make the world a better place. Thank you for being you, and thanks for helping the rest of us.

[Miguel Arboleda]

Thank you Siler for your thoughtful examination of the situation and your responses and suggestions. This is the kind of response I was looking for in another thread I started about learning from Ken's ordeal, but I guess I phrased my intentions poorly.

I am a Type 1 diabetic and my condition is very serious out away from immediate help. I've done a lot of mountain walking and know what I am doing, but in spite of that, three times, while I was on my own, twice in the deep backcountry mountains here in Japan and once two years ago in the Alps in France, I got into situations where I almost died due to hypoglycemia (low blood sugar attack). Luckily in all the Japanese situations I was able to keep my head and carefully think my way out of the problem, and in France a woman walking late in the evening just happened to walk by and offered chocolate bars (plus, I was astounded to find out, she knew how to deal with my situation), but if the blood sugar had gone down so low that I lost consciousness I wouldn't be here today writing this.

Whenever I go hiking with others (or even whenever I start teaching my classes or go to dinner with someone) I always let the others know what my condition is and what might happen. Nine times out of ten nothing happens and there is no need for concern, and even when something does happen I am prepared and deal with it right there (I am no longer shy about stopping to eat something or taking out my insulin and injecting myself in a restaurant or in front of others, but in the first few years it was terribly embarrassing and humiliating and I would go seek a public bathroom to inject myself… something I can't stand doing due to the atrocious conditions of public bathrooms). I always carry a cell phone for emergencies and always have a special bag of emergency food just in case. I leave, with loved ones, detailed maps and directions about where I am going and how I will get there. Unfortunately Japanese mountain safety authorities can be awfully lax about keeping tabs on who is up there (they are woefully understaffed and underfunded, too) so a lot of the people and places to leave information at the trailhead and such just don't exist (then, civilization is never as far away as it is in the States or Australia).

I think your decision to tell other members of a hiking group about an individual's condition is an important point, and such information could help preserve the safety of the group and provide other member's valuable starting points for when that individual does get into trouble. From the way you spoke about Ken it seems you understand how unwelcome or uncomfortable help from others can be, but, and I say this mostly for the benefit of other leaders, please do be careful about what and the way the highly personal information about a person with disabilities is divulged. This information not only constantly forces such people to have to bite back their feelings about publicly spreading highly personal information around among people who would most likely not reveal their own highly personal information to strangers, but there is history behind the diseases and disabilities that people have, history of fear, pain, anger, prejudice, ridicule, a sense of helplessness. People with disabilities are forced to learn how to deal with this in order to survive and so will often allow their information to be disseminated, but not without regret or anxiety. I once told a class of my university students about why I had to occasionally eat something in front of them in the class (in Japan it is frowned upon to eat in public, especially a workplace) and the students proceeded to spend the whole class making fun of me and jeering at me. I laughed it off, but the humiliation hurt a lot. Of course, these were particularly juvenile students and so I couldn't expect more from them.

Part of living with a disability is to come to terms with your own vulnerability, imperfections, frailty, and even mortality. Everyone has to face that, of course, but with a disability it hits home very hard, and with something chronic it never goes away. You have to learn to grow a thick skin and, if you want to make through mentally, to grow to have a sense of humor about what you can't do anything about. I admire Ken a lot for having the courage to get out there and continue hiking in spite of the fear (and that fear NEVER goes away, no matter how much they say they don't fear it) and limitations. Having my own disability and having face situations where my disability put me in life-threatening danger, I understand, viscerally, what he is up against. Having a disability, in one way, has its advantages, too. For one you learn to grow strong and overcome fear and limitations. Two, you learn to truly live within a community, relying on other people. All of us are reliant upon others to survive, but a disability brings this home in a way that doesn't allow argument or excuses or denial. Sometimes a very hard pill to swallow if you are proud and independent.

Ken's story is a great lesson for all of us going out there. The way he dealt with the situation is an great example of how things should be done and I'd very much like to see an article here about it.

Thanks for listening.

Miguel Arboleda
Tokyo, Japan

[John S.]

Miguel, have you ever brought up to your doc for you to decrease insulin dosage as a way to keep blood sugar a little higher (only during your trip) so you don't run the risk of hypoglycemia? Doc may say hail no, but it'd be interesting to know his opinion. Incapacitating hypoglycemia will kill, but mild hyperglycemia won't. I guess the high sugar could cause an issue with water (increased thirst, increased urination) though.

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