What knife do you carry backpacking?

[j lan]

Yes, weird. You can check any knife in your checked luggage, no problem. I just read the airline regulations on folding scissors, it is scandalous!

"Most cutting instruments, including carpet knives and box cutters (and spare blades), any device with a folding or retractable blade, ice picks, straight razors, and metal scissors with pointed tips. Small scissors with a cutting edge less than four inches (10 cm) and small tools such as pliers and screwdrivers that are less than seven inches (18 cm) in length are allowed in the cabin."

A folding scissors with a 3.9" blade could be easily pulled apart and do some damage, 2 blades instead of one!

[Juston Taul]

>>>Eeeeyewwww Ali, thanks for the graphics. You may have hit on the newest and coolest in SUUUUL fashion-chop off a limb to reduce total skin-out weight!<<<

I laughed a good bit at this.

[John Donewar]

My personal choice has been the CRKT M16-10KZ. It tips the scale at 2.3 ounces. The scales are zytel and the blade is AUS4 stainless with a black coating. The design of the blade is a partially serrated, tanto style. It has the "Auto Lawks" blade locking system which fixes the blade in an open position for safety. It does not however make it a fixed blade knife that can be folded closed. It is simply a folder with a better than average blade locking mechanism.

There are some tasks that are just better suited to a full tang, fixed blade knife. I have not seen many fixed blade knives other than the 100 mm blade, wooden handled, Mora that could be considered ultralight. I became interested enough to purchase one and check it out after reading "98.6 Degrees" by Cody Lundin. In his book he describes what I believe to be a Mora knife.

The 100 mm Mora weighs 2.75 ounces including its plastic sheath. That is ultralight enough in my book. It is a rat tail tang, (Thank you Joseph Morrison) high carbon steel, fixed blade that is razor sharp. The tip of the blade is like the point of a needle. There is no finger guard to seperate your index finger from the blade should you lose your grip. The wooden handle with its cup shaped metal ferrule at the blade handle juncture reminds me of a putty knife. That is OK by me though since a putty knife is a tool and so is this very servicable knife.

Combination tools like the Leatherman Micra and the SAK Classic cannot be overlooked as ultralight alternatives. The 1.8 ounce Micra has 10 functions and the 1.3 ounce SAK Classic has 6 functions by my personal count. The cutting edge of the Micra's knife blade is approximately 1/8 inch longer. The actual length of the straight portion of the cutting edge on both appears to be exactly the same. In my opinion this makes their knife functions equal. Both are quite sharp from the factory.

The Micra's 4 functions that the Classic lacks are a bottle opener, philips screwdriver, 4.5 inch "ruler" and tiny flat blade screwdriver. The tiny flat driver is still just barely too wide to be used on my eyeglasses. It could be easily worked down to a useable size for eyeglass repair. But if you need glasses and aren't carrying a spare pair the tiny screw is effectively invisible anyhow. I don't encounter that many philips screws on the trail. I also don't carry glass bottles in need of an opener. Many compasses have much more useable and transparent "rulers" incorporated into the straight edge of their bases.

I carry a set of splinter pickers (tweezers) in my first aid kit. Both the Classic and the Micra have tweezers. The Micra's are heavier duty and exhibit a stronger grip but are not as easily employed as the Classic's set as they are permanently attached to the handle section of the scissors. Spring action scissors are another common function of the Classic and Micra. Those of the Micra are @ 1/3 larger. The scissors on both are reasonably sharp. In my opinion the scissors on the Micra would be more useful.

Some of those posting on this thread say they find scissors
as useful as a small folding knife. My personal set were purchased at Walgreens in the cosmetics aisle. They are stainless, 4 inches long overall, 1/8" thick with 1 3/8" of very sharp cutting edge and weigh @ .6 of an ounce. Packing these pointed tip scissors is challenging but as a side function the pointed tips can be used as an awl should the need arise. Does this mean that these scissors should be considered as a multi-tool? :-)

If anyone is interested they are manufactured by Revlon and marketed on a carded blister pack as a "brow set". The scissors came with an eyebrow brush that I promptly gave to my loving wife after opening the blister pack. The blister pack card has the model/part number of 1046-07 in the upper left hand corner of the blister packaged card.

On my next outing, to satisfy my own curiosity, I will forego carrying my CRKT M16-10KZ for the 1.05 ounce heavier combination of the 100 mm Mora and the Revlon scissors. The total combinaton will weigh 3.35 ounces which is still lighter than four of the fixed blades alone in this thread.

Party On ! 2010

Newton

[John G]

I ran some experiments with the Micra & Vic Classic:

I use scissors for the following tasks (listed in order of most frequently done to least frequently done):
1 opening packaging (only if I need a straight cut in order to roll the top down for re-sealing the bag)
2 cutting off hangnails
3 trimming ripped cuticles
4 trimming loose skin at the edges of cuts or blisters
5 trimming my finger & toe nails
6 cutting a hole in the middle of moleskin or blister pad
7 rounding the edges of moleskin, duct tape, tent/pad patches
8 trimming line to length – with a clean edge for melting
9 trim threads & seam protrusions on new gear
10 trimming fabric to length on things I'm altering

I use the blade to open most food packaging since it's easier to clean than the scissors, for food prep & eating, to cut line to length, and to make wood shavings & feather sticks to start fires.

Suprisingly, I found the Micra scissors would NOT do tasks 2-6 & 9 since the edges cross / overlap at the tip too much. The Victorinox classic sized scissors would do tasks 1, 8, & 10 but no where nearly as easily as the micra's scissors.

I found both ~1.5 inch blades were too short for most food prep &/or eating. I also found the Micra's blade is significantly sharper than the Vic Classic's – but I suspect it's because the edge is only sharpened on 1 side (so the edge angle is significantly narrower). Even with the narrow edge angle, the Micra's blade holds up to making wood shavings noticeably longer than the Vic classics – plus the handle is noticeably bigger / easier to grip.

I also found the Vic Classic's tweezers worked significantly better. The "attached to the handle" aspect of the Micra didn't get in the way, but the narrow tips and flexier steel didn't work as well as the Vic tweezers.

[Joseph Morrison]

Newton,

The Moras are not full tang, they have a rat tail tang. Here is an example of a rat tail tang mora:

On a full tang knife the tang is visble between the handle slabs all the way around the handle. Here is an example of a full tang blade minus the very bottom:

Regardless, a rat tail tang is stronger than any folder.
Hope this helps.

Joseph.

[cary bertoncini]

There are some that are full tang, for example all the "lapplander" models are. But I don't think any of the lower priced models are full tang – the lapplander models are usually over $100.

[John Donewar]

Joseph,

I stand corrected and appreciate the input. A picture is worth a thousand words and yours explain eloquently the differences between full and rat tail tangs.

I missed the obvious difference. In his book, "98.6 Degrees", on page 176 it says, "Full tang means the metal of the blade runs clear up into the handle, imparting great strength and control."

After going back and re-reading the section where he describes his knife choice, on pages 174 – 177, he never actually describes his personal knife as a Mora. He also never actually describes the Mora as a full tang knife. After looking intently I don't even see where he ever actually names Mora as a knife manufacturer.

The illustration on page 175 shows a "Mora like" knife with what appears to be Premier in an oval of sorts with the letter number designation H114 over the word SWEDEN in block letters. This is confirmed by the picture in the color section on page C-2. On Cody Lundin's website he offers for sale Swedish Knives! (Their exclamation point not mine.) If you scroll over the picture of the Swedish Knives to enlarge it you can read MORA plainly on the rubber handled version on the right. In the same picture you can see what appears to be a crown and crossed oars and the word MORA on the plastic sheath of the center wooden handled knife.

The Mora that I own has these same markings.

My best guess is that his knife is the ancestor/older brother of the 100 mm Mora that I own. Simply said I assumed a fact not supported by the text, illustrations or pictures in his book. Moreover it appears to me now that the definition of a full tang knife in Cody Lundin's book is in error.

But a Mora in the 100 mm size with the red wooden handle and the "rat tail tang" (Thank you Joseph) fits his description of his knife choice pretty well.

All this said I believe my Mora knife to be a very servicable choice for ultralight hiking.

Thank you again Joseph for your input and pictures that illustrate your point so well. I intend to correct my original post so as not to confuse anyone else in the same way that I was confused.

Party On ! 2010

Newton

[Dale Wambaugh]

The full/partial tang doesn't mean a thing if you are using the knife for general purpose cutting, whittling or food prep. I tried removing the molded plastic handle from a Mora and it wasn't easy. Obviously, a full tang knife is going to be stronger, but unless you are using the knife for a climbing hold or a pry bar, you'll never know the difference.

Full tang designs lend themselves to mounting slab-style scales (handles) on a knife and attaching a pommel (the metal chunk on the end), but that is pointless on a knife designed for maximum utility at lowest cost with a molded plastic handle.

[Joseph Morrison]

Newton,

All the knives in Lundin's book are Moras. They are called Mora knives after the town where they are manufactured, Mora, Sweden. Premier is just a brand name. On his website the two knives pictured are Mora of Sweden knives. The wood handled one is likely the #2 or #2 1/2 Mora and the rubber handled one is the Craftline All Around.

Here is a link to the best place to purchase a Mora and many other scandi knives on the web as well as a lot of info: http://www.ragweedforge.com/

I think a Mora is a fine choice for backpacking and outdoor use in general. I own several.

BTW I wouldn't let something like misnaming a knife construction lead you away from Cody Lundins books. He is very knowledgable. 98.6 degrees is one of my favorite books.

Jospeh

[John Donewar]

Dale,

We're in agreement on all points.

I got exactly what I was looking for in the Mora. It has the best combination of strength, size, lightness and low cost that I have found to date.

I also got an education from Joseph that cleared up some confusion on my part.

Party On ! 2010

Newton

[Joseph Morrison]

Dale,

I believe it was Mors Kochanski that would do a demonstartion where he would pound a Mora into a tree and then stand on it to prove they were not weak knives.

Joseph

[John Donewar]

Joseph,

I have not been steered away from Cody Lundin's books. I agree with you about "98.6 Degrees" being a great book.

Notice how I sign my posts. I have adopted and modified to suit my purpose the motto "Party On" from his book.

Party On ! 2010 is in reference to the two week section hike on the AT that my hiking partner "Lazarus" and his son "Hoss" intend to do this summer. When I first used this closing I figured people would confuse it with the coming of the new year.

I guess I should thank Cody Lundin also for his inspiration that brought about the use of this closing. Cody, "Party On" is yours. Party On ! 2010 is just my way of saying that because of reading your book I feel that I will be much better prepared for my longest duration hike to date.

Thanks again Joseph

Party On ! 2010

Newton

[Joseph Morrison]

Newton,

What section will you be hiking this summer?

Joseph

[John Donewar]

Joseph,

We'll be starting out a little North of Erwin, TN and hopefully end up in Damascus, VA.

Party On ! 2010

Newton

[Dale Wambaugh]

Joseph wrote: "I believe it was Mors Kochanski that would do a demonstartion where he would pound a Mora into a tree and then stand on it to prove they were not weak knives."

Yeah– good way to end up carving your ankle! The link below shows a teenager doing the same thing. He does some impressive batoning too. I'll stay with cutting some cheese and a little whittling :)

[Gordon Smith]

A few more of Mora's greatest hits:

http://www.knifetests.com/MoraClipperDTest.html

[Joseph Morrison]

Newton,

I have never done that section. I have done Davenport Gap(end of the Smokies) to Erwin though. I was just made partner at work and will be getting married in the spring, so work and honeymoon will make longer trips impossible. Hope you have a safe and enjoyable trip.

Joseph

[Daniel Conway]

Benchmade 530

I was initially worried about the durability of the knife, hasn't let me down yet.

[Steve .]

If I was going to carry a small knife then a Wenger Esquire.

If my backpacking incorporated hunting then a very sharp Helle.

+1 on Ragnar at Ragweedforge.com.

[Michael Meiser]

So,

I realized I never followed up here.

I've settled on some pretty good UL solutions for processing wood for my wood gas stove for winter camping.

1.89 oz knife

1.2oz bow saw blade

== purpose built ==

The primary reason for these tools is processing wood for my wood stove for winter hiking / bike touring and camping.

They are admittedly not necessities as my wood gas stove can burn smaller sticks and twigs for cooking.

However since I also use the stove for warmth and light I felt I can justify the extra 3.09 ounces.

I will not be using these tools every night, just when I have the time / energy or need dictates

They will certainly come in handy when wood is wet.

In short… This is 3.09 ounces dedicated to fun and better enjoyment of the winter camping experience.

== the knife ==

The shape of the blade is inspired by the Leuku knife, also sometimes called a Sami knife. It is however much smaller then these knives which were usually made from truck leaf springs.

Unlike the blades that inspired it this blade is much to light for chopping action and so primarily will be used with a baton.

The curve of the blade is specifically designed to put the fulcrum as far out toward the tip as possible so when hitting the tip with a baton the energy transfers directly into the wood and not back into the handle.

If the fulcrum were near the handle then when you hit the knife tip with a baton it would transfer energy back up into the handle. This is how hilts get broken.

== materials ==

The knife is made from an unconventional source. A scrapper / putty knife.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmeiser2/4235900656/

I used this material for it's durability as the primary use of the knife is splitting wood with a baton.

I'm completely confident it won't break, worst case scenario is it will bend. So far it has been more then sufficiently Strong enough to take the abuse of batoning.

In sharpening it I did get it very sharp. Sharp enough to slice through a sheet of paper anyway, but I'm not sure how long it will hold this edge given it's stainless steel and not tempered/ hardened like a normal knife.

Fine sharpness is however really secondary and unnecessary to the knifes splitting power.

That said it can be used making feather sticks and food preparation which it seems to have no problem with.

Will see how it keeps its edge over the long term.

== two specialty knives vs. one all purpose ==

So… The idea behind this knife is that it's lighter to carry two specialty knives then one all in one wonder.

In fact I question weather any knife can handle the range of activities from cutting wood to doing more detailed work like food prep, whittling, etc.

Right now I'm also carrying a Micro-leatherman which I've always carried.

I do question weather I'll even need it with this new knife. The only other thing I really use on the leatherman is the scissors and I could potentially put some ultralight folding scissors in my emergency kit with my sewing thread.

== bow saw blade ==

First of all the blade does only weigh about 1.2oz with the two key chain rings I use for quickly improvising a bow.

Secondly it requires actually only two cuts and a couple minutes to improvise a good bow for the blade. This is an excellent example of how skill and experience trump gadgets. No Sven saw or Wyoming saw is necessary.

Some might call this a bush craft approach. Indeed I once saw a video of Ray Mears carrying a bow saw blade in his "billy can".

What's more the bow itself only weighs about 7-8 ounces so it's really not a big deal if I do decide simply break down the saw and carry the bow with me as well.

I don't suspect that this is the sort of tool I'll be using every night, but since the blade is only 1.2oz and the gives me the flexibility to take or carry the bow I needn't fret over the issue. It'll work itself out over time.

== sheath ==

No sheathes yet.

Recently I've just been wrapping them in some plastic which works fine, but isn't sexy. The bow saw blade can also roll up in a larger bottom pot (i.e 5" diameter) but I do have a nice place to store it unrolled.

Am thinking about using automotive plastic to make the knife sheath instead of leather as it's lighter / thinner / tougher.

Will post again when I've created the sheathes.

[Mike M]

could you show a little more detail on how the blade is attached?

I found an old Wyoming saw blade and was thinking of rigging up something similar

thanks

[Vince Contreras]

I currently carry two knives:

Spyderco Bill Moran FB01 (with polished blade to double as signal mirror)

Classic SAK

If I'm feeling saucy I swap the Moran out for a Lum C46, 'cause yes, it's just that cool.

[Frank Steele]

I just bought a new SOG Twitch II, and to my surprise it has a composite handle (versus my original with an Aluminum handle). the new knife weighs 1.7 oz on my jewlery scale!. I like these becasue they are semi-auto (spring assisted), made with good steel, and now, light. It has a 2.75 inch blade.

.

[Larry De La Briandais]

My latest is a Gerber Suspension (used the original blunt nose plier multi tool before). It is a real tank (6.7 oz) and even my heavy packing friends won't carry one. However, I find myself using it multiple times every day while backpacking. The new one has tools I found myself always wanting but missing on the original. It goes on my belt, so it doesn't count as pack weight, right?!? ;^)

[Frank Steele]

I don't know if my knife counts as pack weight. I count it as a part of ME. I seriously can't leave the house without my SOG Twitch II and my watch, I feel totally naked with out them. I carry my knife in my front pocket everywhere (except the airport) including work.

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