New Water Treatment Product

[Bob Gabbart]

Wasn’t the picture suposed to be released today?

[Ryan Jordan]

Yes, pic, price, and pre-purchase will be released later tonite.

[paul johnson]

great. already ordered one kit. still have a bit of AqM to use up.

[David Lewis]

One question… how does 1mL to treat 1L in 15 mins. compare (in terms of volume) to the 5-8 drops (10-16 drops total) used to treat 1L in 15 mins. with Pristine? Does it works out to the same?

Also, I would think that the only thing the brown glass bottle is doing it keeping out light… no? If that’s the case, why wouldn’t an opaque plastic bottle work just as well as the brown glass?

[EndoftheTrail]

Ryan:

I just read the description on Klearwater. Very exciting — as it eliminates one extra step and some waiting time as compared to Aqua Mira.

Curious about this Swedish product. How long has it been around in Sweden / Europe? Has any European equivalent of our EPA approved its efficacy and safety claims?

Or is this product brand new for both sides of the Atlantic?

Thanks in advance.

[Richard Nelridge]

Ben,

Go back to the page about the KlearWater and read the letter about the product. It appears that it has been in use in Sweden as its Swedish brand Xinix since at least 1998.

Rich

[EndoftheTrail]

Thanks, Richard. I see it now.

Still wondering though, if this product — and specifically its safety and efficacy properties — have been approved by any European health/sanitation/environment authorities (such as their counterparts to our EPA)? Hopefully, Ryan can share this with us.

[David Lewis]

Don’t know if it’s been approved… but I would be inclined to think that if is HAS been approved by some regulatory body in Europe… the regulatory criteria are probably just as stringent if not more so than the EPA criteria would be. So it’s a good question.

Bottom line tho’… it’s basically the same thing, chemically speaking, as Aqua Mira and Pristine (right?)… just premixed and somehow stablized. I’m guessing that Aqua Mira / Pristine is more highly concentrated since you mix it yourself… and it only take a few drops to treat 1L as opposed to 1mL to treat 1L.

[Mitchell Keil]

People really love to reinvent the wheel, I see. After reading the accompanying blurb from the “opening night” posting on the site for its “pre-release” to Members, I can only say one thing: The envelope, please… and the winner is Micropur. About the same price, about the same level of treatment (30 quarts)BUT not a water purifier as Micropur is and certainly not as light or stable. So why all the hype?

[Michael Martin]

I’ve tried Micropur, but I was kind of underwhelmed for two reasons:

1) You have to treat water in increments of 1L — all of my preferred water containers are odd sized like 730ml or 1.8L.

2) The official instructions call for a 4hr treatment time. (Although I’ve heard unproven rumors that this is only for worst-case cold, cloudy, putrid water.)

[EndoftheTrail]

To be fair, both use the same active ingredient… so in cases where the water is very cold, longer treatment times are needed for both. Micropur and Klearwater have no advantage over each other in terms of treatment time.

On the other hand, I can see your point about the tablets. It’s awkward to break a tablet to treat a fraction of a liter. I guess it’s the same reason why I’ve always disliked cube sugar — preferring to spoon my own quantities instead.

[paul johnson]

Mitchell,

Would you mind taking a moment, please, and clarifying your statement, “BUT not a water purifier as Micropur is”? I don’t understand it and at this point don’t agree with it, but you might be thinking of something I missed or don’t understand.

Many thanks,
pj

[Ryan Jordan]

This is not an official position and represents only my opinion.

Any of these three products are effective against cysts if you let them sit for four hours, as is the EPA-registered claim for Micropur vs. Crypto. They all have the same chemicals.

AM and KW act faster than Micropur against bacteria and viruses, esp. in cold water temperatures (I’ve verified this in my lab) because Micropur is limited by the dissolution rate of the tablet.

The data I’ve collected and seen from third parties indicates that the water is drinkable within 1-3 minutes with AM and KW if you’re not worried about cysts. Not the case with Micropur tablets. You better follow those directions to the T.

Compare these products based on their usability criteria, they all have their advantages. I carry two Micropur tabs in my emergency kit. They are pretty light. Fine in a survival situation though, but for me, relatively inconvenient, slow to dissolve in cold water, and difficult to dose if your water volumes are <> 1L. But they have their place, and they are a good product. Incidentally, BPL will be stocking them soon. I think it’s important that folks have options and the tablets certainly fill a niche.

[Fred Baltimore]

The KW appears to be a perfect product with the exception of the glass container. I read that AM can be used to treat wounds on another site. Is this also the case with KW? If chlorine dioxide is good for wounds why don’t we see it in stores for that purpose? Are there other uses for the liquid?

[paul johnson]

Fred,

hopefully, you’ll get a reply to your questions. I’ve tried twice in other Threads to get answers to similar questions with no success.

my thoughts are two-fold:
1) i would think that AqM could cause a lot of tissue damage to a wound if the concentration is too strong, perhaps greatly increasing the length of time to heal. so, it must be used in the proper concentration. what is the strongest concentration reasonable for this use? assume here that it would be used immediately after mixing/reacting and diluting in water.

2) what is the half-life of AqM? so, what is the longest period of time after water treated with AqM (or KW) can be used to disinfect (and not merely irrigate, for cleansing purposes) a wound?

[Ryan Jordan]

Fred, Paul, and others:

1. Do NOT use AM for mouth rinsing, wound treatment, etc. It’s too concentrated. You need to dilute the solution by a factor of 5 or more to use it in this capacity. AM on bare skin can cause topical burns in sensitive areas if left there (nothing particularly harmful, just painful). On mucous membranes and soft tissues, it will cause damage. KW is not as concentrated, and is multi-use by design.

2. Water treated with AM or KW according to mfr directions (e.g., drinkable water) can generally be used within 5 minutes to irrigate a wound. That’s when the solution has worked its magic on the pathogens that infect wounds: namely, bacteria (Staph, E. Coli, Strep, and Pseudomonas spp.).

Incidentally, an activated AM solution suitable for treating one liter of water (7/7 drops of A/B) can be diluted into 2-4 oz of water and make a great gargle if you suspect strep throat on a long distance hike. I’ve used this twice, I have awful tonsils (still in, trying to figure out how much they weight to see if it’s worth the $/oz in FSO reduction) and am very prone to strep throat. Rinsing several times a day can buy you time until you can get some antibiotics.

[paul johnson]

Dr. J,

many thanks for taking the time to reply. really appreciate it. your facts confirmed my suspicions.

one last question. what is the half-life of AqM? the point being if i treat water with AqM per the usual method for purifying drinking water, then, at a later time, before that water is consumed, suddenly have a requirement to use it to disinfect a wound, how long after treating water for drinking will it still have a bactericidal action? is this ques. clear?

[Ryan Jordan]

>> one last question. what is the half-life of AqM? the point being if i treat water with AqM per the usual method for purifying drinking water, then, at a later time, before that water is consumed, suddenly have a requirement to use it to disinfect a wound, how long after treating water for drinking will it still have a bactericidal action? is this ques. clear?

This answer to this question is not clear with AM. However, it may be relatively clear if you extrapolate similar chlorine dioxide treatment, in say, a municipality. After the water is treated and leaves the treatment plant, it is required to have a residual biocidal effect for as long as the water remains in the distribution system. In larger municipalities, the period of time can be up to several days. Since AM imparts a higher concentration of biocide than that which is normally found in a water municipality….then it “should be ok”, right?

[Jason Smith]

How does ClO2 compare to Provo iodine as an anti-biotic for wound treatment? Is it just useful for irrigation? Just want to know more about using it in a wound treatment capacity.

[paul johnson]

Dr. J,

many thanks. exactly the type of answer i was hoping for. so, basically it seems to have a long half-life under certain conditions which limits its exposure to sunlight and, perhaps, oxygen(?).

oh well, if in doubt, then your earlier instructions about, reacting and diluting in at least 5 parts water to 1 part AqM are easy enough to do.

thanks again. have a good weekend.

[Fred Baltimore]

Tell me if I am correct or not.
I can use KW directly for water, wounds and for other stuff I want to clean? KW and AM both disinfect water equally providing you measure the right amount of the two bottles of AM and wait the 5 minutes, occasionally in bad weather. I have to dilute AM to use it for wound.
Micropur does only full liters and tastes like crap. Why would I ever order AM or Micropur again? Shelf life; Who keeps their AM bottles a year anyway? Why do we have to wait for this KW anyway, do you have it or not? I just want to order the stuff not write notes.

[Ryan Jordan]

>> Why do we have to wait for this KW anyway, do you have it or not?

If I had it I sure wouldn’t be hangin’ on to it – it would be in all y’alls hot little hands…

It’s being shipped from Sweden and BPL will have it in its Bozeman warehouse around the 25th or so.

As for your other questions, yes, you’re correct.

[Mitchell Keil]

OK. I am a little late to get back to PJ concerning my comment on Micropur being a “water purifier”. (Out of town) Micropur is the only water additive that is EPA registered as a microbiological water purifier. Now, we either accept that the EPA can make these determinations or we don’t when it comes to testing and certifying these sorts of things. They have developed the protocols for making these determinations. (If we do not accept the premise that the EPA is qualified to determine such things then all of the pumps that are “EPA registered water purifiers” should not be making the claim and we are in a world of hurt in places where they are being used to “purify” drinking water — like New Orleans.) Much as I respect Ryan’s expertise in many areas, I have no personal knowledge about his qualifications to “test in his lab” the efficacy of any biochemical compound. Nor do I know how his protocols compare to the EPA’s. So, absent a peer review of his proceedures to make these claims about KW or any other biochemical process, I will defer to the EPA on this matter. Therefore, I stand by my statement that for the cost, the amount treated and its longer shelf life, Micropur is a qualitatively better product with the added benefit of being EPA registered as a microbiological water purifier, something which KW is not. That one can use it in varying amounts for differrent size water containers is certainly a plus for KW but not “my” point.

I should point out that I have been a user of AM for several years and love it’s weight savings and taste nuetrality over pumps and iodine but not its cumbersome utility.

[Anonymous]

To use MicroPur MP1 tablets in less than full tablet size, crush the tablet while it is still in the wrapper and then cut it like you do your nose candy in half or in thirds, etc.

[paul johnson]

Mitchell,

excellent reply. very clear. understand. appreciate the time it took you to author and express both concisely and clearly your prev. meaning. even i get it now – didn’t realize that you were speaking of EPA certification as the basis of your statement vs. Mfr’s own testing and claims. many thanks.

[Author]

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