“Misting” Silnylon!

[Miguel Arboleda]

Well, that will be the last time I use single-skin silnylon in the mad deluge rain of Japan! This last weekend my wife and I went for a three-day walk in Yatsugatake west of Tokyo and when evening came on the second night we put our packs down, ready to set up our TarpTent Squall 2, when suddenly the sky opened up and a deluge like we'd never seen before came roaring down. We raced to get the shelter up and throw in the pack and get out of the downpour. Once inside we pulled out our few belongings, including our sleeping bags. While we were doing this I noticed that a film of water develop over everything and when I examined the ceiling actually saw drops forming everywhere and small blasts of mist bursting all along the top of the tent. Within twenty minutes all our gear was sopping wet and we had to stash our sleeping bags in the pack liners. We were up all night long (over ten hours) both due to the wetness and the thunder of the rain on the roof.

There is nothing wrong with the TarpTent Squall 2. It's the shortcoming of silnylon, definitely not up to the task of dealing with such wild rain. I haven't tried my The One in such weather yet, so I don't know how it will handle (I've heard quite a lot that spinnaker and cuben don't mist), but for the first time since going ultralight I am seriously considering going back to a double wall tent for alpine walking when rain is possible here in Japan. I'm certainly glad that I never had to deal with such torrential rain using my homemade silnylon shelters, made with silnylon inferior to that used by Henry Shires!

[Russell Swanson]

Miguel, I definitely feel you here. I experienced the same set of circumstances on a hike late last spring. My wife and I had just set up camp after a day of on-and-off showers when the sky opened up. No sooner had our tent been pegged out than it was pounded by torrential rain for the better part of an hour. I saw drops form and could actually feel the mist on my face when I lifted it near the roof of our tent. We were using a Tarptent as well, a Cloudburst 2. Fortunately, the rain lessened into a normal shower which the silnylon was able to keep at bay. A quick wipe down of the walls and all was well. But if the biblical-power rain had continued, it would have been a lousy night for sure.

This isn't in any way a knock on Henry's products. In fact, I love the Cloudburst to death. Its simply a shortcoming of the silnylon material. Even given this one instance it's doubtful that I'll go back to a double wall tent as I'm pretty sure I know how to avoid a repeat. Next time I'm expecting the possibility of that sort of downpour, I'll be sure to take advantage of the tree canopy to break some of the rain's force.

[Sven Klingemann]

Stupid question – what kind of fabric/tent WOULD hold up to torrential rain?

[Anonymous]

We suffered pounding rain several days last summer as Hurricane Dean blew through while hiking the John Muir Trail. We were using a sil-nylon Hex 3 and I did not notice misting. I wonder if the steep pitch makes a difference. Additionally, last winter while testing Henry’s Tyvek models, I set-up in what I would describe as a torrential burst that lasted 45 minutes in a Tyvek Contrail and noticed absolutely no misting. The walls were dry. Again the storm lasted just a little more than 45 minutes. I will be using the Tyvek Sublite in early august and hopefully a real storm will blow through like you both have described, after I already have set up the tent of course, to further test the limits of Tyvek.

[David Ure]

nm

[Sven Klingemann]

I guess the answer is then "any coated fabric that is heavy enough to withstand the pressure of torrential rain", and not "any coated fabric", right? The question then becomes: what pressure can commonly used UL fabric resist (i.e. the silnylon, spinnaker, tyvek and cuben fiber used in making UL tents)? Hard to tell from the manufacturer's websites!

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

I'm wondering if this has something to do with the specific sil-nylon version used by HH. I own a double walled sil-nylon tent which is now starting to show its age with some leaks or misting but it didn't have those problems the first years of use. Mind you, the fabric itself is heavier than typically used in ultralight shelters and perhaps the coating is more abunded too. I know several other tentmanufacturers who use sil-nylon and I haven't heard any complaints about misting from owners. So I guess it has more to do with the specific weight/quality of fabric and coating than with sil-nylon as a concept itself.

[David Ure]

nm

[te – wa]

I have used some sil that wasnt up to snuff, and its so very hard to make sil that the market is flooded with "seconds". Even first quality 1.3 can and will have a light misting affect, but this only happened to one shelter I made. And that one shelter was blue, if that means anything. I doubt it.

It MAY be the sil – a bad run – even as listed in the "first quality" category. I would consider sending it back to Henry for a trade. He is very accomidating to your needs and will certainly understand the issue. Youve pro'lly already done this, right?

[EndoftheTrail]

Sorry about your experience, Miguel, and thanks for sharing with us.

So we've all been warned about the limitations of silnylon — Henry and other gearmakers have all been pretty upfront about it.

We silnylon fabric users will need to think through a "Plan B" when something similar befalls us. Thoughts and suggestions?

[Michael Davis]

John,

You mentioned better luck with the Hex 3 which I also use. I do believe the better performance is partly due to the steep walls which provide a "glancing blow" effect for the raindrops. Also, the Hex 3 is 1.7 oz/sy fabric before coating, so it's a little heavier than the lightest silnylons used in some other lightweight tents.

[David Ure]

nm

[Steven Nelson]

My experience is that the misting isn't from water pushing through the fabric – it's from condensation building up on the inside of the silnylon and then getting knocked off by the rain hitting the outside.

Any single-wall, non-breathable fabric will do the same thing.

[Miguel Arboleda]

My experience is that the misting isn't from water pushing through the fabric – it's from condensation building up on the inside of the silnylon and then getting knocked off by the rain hitting the outside.

That's probably true in most cases, but for this experience the "waterfall" started immediately, within 2 minutes of entering the tent, so there wasn't any time for condensation to accumulate.

I don't think Miguel is thinking that this was a total failure of the fabric. Instead there are limitations and they were exceeded in this case.

Definitely I don't think there was anything wrong with the Squall 2. I really like Henry's designs and would recommend them to anyone for less extreme conditions. And the silnylon that I've used until now has always performed well for most conditions that I've experienced, including light rain. I think knowledge of local weather conditions is important for the kind of shelter and material you decide to use. My impression is that most of the American cottage shelter designs seem to come from rather drier areas and perhaps are not as appropriate for places like summer Japan or, as a lot of Brits say, places like rainy and cold Britain. It truly rains a lot here! And hard! Up high it's not only not fun to get wet, but, as you know, can be dangerous.

But, as you said Dave, I don't think my experience was a failure of the fabric, but rather a limit of its capabilities.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

All tentmakers using silnylon need to offer as an OPTION a more pricy, lightweight fabric like Cuben to customers who want a light single wall tent that will not mist in a torrential downpour. Henry Shires' new Tyvek tent is a step in the right direction but Cuben would be a better option in his other tents.

I'd pay an extra premium for Cuben fabric and, after his experience, I'll bet Miguel would too.

Eric

[Craig Burton]

Hey Miguel; since I've never seen any comments on it yet, I figure yourself and others might be interested in my experience with The One in a torrential downpour I experienced earlier this month.

To start things off, I should note that I made a couple of major mistakes when pitching The One since it was my first time trying it (I don't have any place to test it out at home). Since the nighttime lows I was expecting were in the 60s, I figured it wouldn't be too big of a risk if I made a mistake pitching it in the backcountry.

Even though I've watched Glen's setup video literally dozens of times, I was still quite baffled during setup in the field. The two ends were just drooping over the mesh and the same was the case for the rear. The only side that was pitched correctly was the front vestibule with the high clearance. To make things more concerning, the front vestibule was much more exposed than any other side — this actually turned out to be a good thing as I will explain later.

The torrential downpour was sustained for a solid two hours from approximately 1am-3am, and the results were not pleasing. As you might expect, I received modest pooling from the 3 drooping sides because of splashing water penetrating the mesh. As for the front vestibule that seems to concern many people; to my surprise I received no water penetration whatsoever from that side despite the fact it was the most exposed. I didn't experience any misting from the roof or sides protected by the Spinnaker fabric — all water penetration was a result of splashing over the bathtub floor through the lower mesh. I also did not experience any condensation on the interior sides or ceiling that night, and none on the precipitation-free night as well.

I was very pleased with the protection of the worrisome front vestibule, and I am confident that the rear canopy is nearly impenetrable if pitched correctly. Going forward, my primary concern will be with the two ends if I can't get them pitched low enough to the ground. I think they will be okay if pitched correctly, but more optimal field testing is required before I can draw any conclusions.

Now that I have learned from my mistakes and I have meticulously studied the proper pitch, I hope to test the The One some more this weekend — and thunderstorms are expected in the weekend forecast.

I should also note that there is a more stormworthy pitch available for The One, but of course I would like to conquer the traditional pitch before I attempt the stormworthy pitch.

[te – wa]

here's a pic of one, after a night of moderate rain. no issues even with a sloppy pitch. Of course, the word "torrential" cant be used here. To Miguel, yes I think spinnaker is more water proof than sil. Too bad they dont make the "two"

[Rog Tallbloke]

I also have a Hex 3 and think the heavier material is worth it for the extra hydrostatic head.

Simple idea in a heavy downpour is to chuck a spaceblanket or heatsheet over the fly. They cling surprisingly well to a rainsoaked tent, even in a moderate wind. A couple of pebbles pushed into the material tied off down to a couple of stakes on the windward side help keep it in place or at least not lost in stronger winds.

[Lynn Tramper]

Sadly it is true that UL shelters are not up to ALL conditions you might encounter. We certainly get some rain here…and that's the reason we always carry bivy bags even when we have a silnylon tent.

On that note, we have been in a deluge with the Nallo2, fly only, and got absolutely NO misting. I think the Hilleberg Kerlon fabric is really superior (if a little heavier). For true alpine conditions the Nallo is definitely our 'go to' tent. The better fly material and true double skin design make this a very robust tent, provided you can pitch it into the wind and the winds don't hit you too hard from the side.

[Clive Ockenden]

Do you think painting a very dilute solution of silicone and mineral spirits on the flatter, top parts of the tent where the rain hits hardest (and where there is less of a glancing blow from the raindrops) would help reduce the misting?

[Casey Bowden]

Yes!
(Answer to post above)

[Lynn Tramper]

Yes, but adds more weight!

[Denis Hazlewood]

What about something like Scotch Guard? Are there any readily available after market applications one might use?

[Alvie Morton]

My sil tarp mists and it gets on the top of my dwr bivy and then it beads up and slides off to the ground – I usually sleep right through it, but I have woken up a time or two and witnessed it, but then I just go back to sleep.

[Lynn Tramper]

I think all of the after market DWR treatments will have the same limitations as silnylon, ie perfectly waterproof when there's no pressure on them, but will wet through if water pressure is high. Water beads up and rolls off fine unless the water is coming down in a hard deluge.

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