Perfect pack

[Charles Ledney]

No, I haven’t found it, but I’m hoping with your help I will.

I really need your help in selecting my next pack. After almost 4 years my MS Ghost is getting close to giving up it’s ghost. I just got it back from MS for some repairs to the bottom were the stays started to wear through (even though this was the second year pack and this was supposedly fixed…you would think they would have lasted for more than a thousand miles ). I recently took it on a five day trip to Canada ( The La Clouche Silhoutte Trail…one kick you in the butt trail…but well worth it) and it just isn’t carrying the same anymore. The waist belt kept sliding down and seems to have lost it’s form (not to mention that I have gained some on my own form).

I bought an Osprey Atmos 50 this summer, after trying it on at my local outfitter’s. Initially, I thought it was going to be the next pack for me, however, after one trip I could tell that it just wasn’t for me (the waist belt dug into my hip).

So now I start the search over. I’ve looked at most of the reviews and posts here and at Backpacking.net and now I seek all you expert input. The following are my criteria and thoughts:

size ~3000ci
durable fabric
simple
big side pockets
loads up to 30lbs

I am really leaning toward the cottage manufacturers, I have looked at the new ULA packs, the Moonbow (George Cole) Mithril, Sixmoon Designs, Luxurylite and McHale. I am willing to spend the money if necessary to get a custom pack, if it is really worth it. On the otherhand, I would hate to fork over all that money and not like the pack. I am also willing to consider packs from the bigger boys MS Ghost, GG Vapor Trail, GG Ozone, Gregory G or Z packs, Golite Infinity.

The unfortunate part is that it is very unlikely that I will get to try many of these on. The nearest REI is about an hour and a half away and their selection of packs is poor. The other outfitter who is really good has cut back on their selection of packs also. So your guidance is greatly needed.

Almost forgot, I am 5′ 10” tall, weigh 170 lbs, have a 34″ waist and a 43″ chest.

[EndoftheTrail]

Charles:

You have done your homework and have identified many of the top packs. There’s really very little that others can do for you, other than repeating the names of all the wonderful packs that are working well for THEM!

I believe you have reached the point where you just need to physically try out the packs on your short list! Say you’ve narrowed your list to the final 4 or 5. Here’s what I would do — in order of preference:

1. Order the “big guys” from online retailers like ebags.com — which provides BOTH free delivery and free returns.

2. Order the “big guys” from online reailers with free shipping — so your only risk is the return shipping.

3. Order the “little guys” from the respective “mom and pop” maker. Again, your only risk is the return shipping.

Ordering 4 or 5 packs, keeping one, and returning the rest will mean “wasting” $20 or so dollars. But considering how critical comfort and fit are, and the years that a good pack will service you, I think it’s money (and time) worth spending.

If you can’t bear to spend even that, then I would highly suggest waiting a few more months. Mountainsmith is discontinuing its entire “Mountainlight” series of packs, which includes the Ghost. I bet you can pick one up on a great close out price! And no risk there, since that’s a pack you know you like.

[J R]

Unless Im doing a extremely light overnight, I use my MS Ghost, and even though its still got some life in it (still in great shape actually) Im already eyeballing replacements.

Im between the GG Virga, and the Mithril. I like the mithrils materials, and has 1000ci more room, for only 1oz difference, but I dont like that I can buy 2 GG packs for less than 1 mithril. The virga also roundly spanked the mithril in a backpacker mag test. Backpacker might be a rag, but they were right in giving the Editors choice to the Ghost, and they gave the Editors choice to Virgas big brother, so I give that a bit of consideration too.

Ive also eyeballed the new BMW packs, in case they ever come out.

Also, Benjamin has an excellent point. Mountainlights are being discontinued… so you will probably be able to pick a new Ghost up for as much as 1/2 off (like I did for mine when they changed the style)

[Charles Ledney]

Thanks for helping me realize what I probably knew made even before I posted this. Getting down to the packs that I did, took some time, but was realitively easy. Whittling these down to the final pack is much more difficult. I really would like to narrow it down some more before I start ordering packs. I have no problem in ordering and sending them back if I don’t like them (thanks for the tip about e-bags). Heck nowdays the return postage is a lot cheaper than the gas it takes to drive to the local outfitters. I guess really what I am asking is/are some of the custom bags such as the Mithril and the McHale that much better than the off the shelf models.

What did you think of the pack that Rodney made for Chongo?

[John Chan]

I’ve been happy with my GG Virga. It might be a little on the heavier side (21 oz) but this pack has survived alot of 4th class scrambling (ie butt-slides) and its the perfect size for a 3-4 day light load OR 7 day ultra-light load… with food.

GG has year-end closeouts. I got the Virga from BackcountryGear for $69. Pretty good bang for the buck.

[John Chan]

A little OT.

Charles, what camps did you stay at on the La Cloche Silhouette? I was at H21, H33, H47 and managed the distance by doing the North and South Ridges by moonlight.

I posted a trip report on it.

Great trail… best (and most challenging) in Ontario.

John.

[Charles Ledney]

We did a half day in, half day out and three days on the trail. We stayed at H8,H22, H35 and H49 (actually we ended up staying on the trail that night as H49 was closed). That is definitely a challenging trail (especially in the rain), but well worth it.

[Charles Ledney]

We did a half day in, half day out and three days on the trail. We stayed at H8,H22, H35 and H49 (actually we ended up staying on the trail that night as H49 was closed). That is definitely a challenging trail (especially in the rain), but well worth it.

[Anonymous]

Charles,
I’ve tested several of the packs you listed judging by the same criteria: cubic capacity, durability, load caring capability and over-all weight… My final decision was purchasing a Gregory G Pack at 2950cu in. and 2lbs.14oz. This pack has the ability to hold a weeks worth of food and gear as well as my heavy photo equipment. The 2005 model has been redesigned with a more durable fabric (G70) in addition to 210d HT nylon fabric reinforcements. It sports a top lid/pocket, 1 large front and 2-side mesh storage pockets. The gull wing belt also has 2 very handy mesh waist belt pockets. Gregory modified the G Packs suspension system with something called (wraptor stabilization). In the field I never felt as though I had to baby this pack, I don’t want durability to be a major consideration when I’m in the backcountry. The G Pack carries best in the 12-25 lbs range and at 2lbs 14oz this is the second most heaviest pack in my stable, but its also one of the most comfortable, stable and durable packs I’ve had the pleasure to have carried.
Regards,
FastWalker

[John Chan]

Actually, come to think of it, my last camp was H48 (Proulx Lake) because of the cold wind on my last day I too could not stay at H49.

If you ever decide to go back there you might want to check out H7, H22, H16, and H48. H7 in particular is a really nice site as you have Topaz lake all to yourself and a view from the South ridge in the morning. I was suprised at how much I enjoyed the Proulx lake (H48) site. A little off the trail but definitely worth it as you’re on a point that extends to 1/3 to the center of the lake with spectacular panoramic views and the position of the fire-pit is definitely the “coziest” on the trail.

Regards,

[Ryan Faulkner]

if you are looking for a frame pack I highly recomend the gossamergear Mariposa Ultralight Backpack. it has 4200+ cubic inch capacity, large side and front pockets, carbon fiber frame, padded shoulder and waist belt, Y lash strap, shock cord compression, and all for just 16oz. now you are coming from a very durable pack so it will be different from what you are used to, but dont worry, because I know someone that swiched from a Lowe Alpine Countour IV(6400cu. 6lbs empty) with no problems. But if you are concerned about duribility, you can email Glen from Gossamer and you can probably get a custom pack made from a more durable material

http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/Mariposa-Standard.html

[Charles Ledney]

Roger,
Before going lightweight, I had a Gregory Shasta which was a great fitting pack. It’s hard to judge how comfortable it was considering I ended up carrying 40-50lb loads! I had considered the G Pack briefly, but it really got some bad reviews, especially durability. I know that they addresses these in the second round of G packs. Have you had any durability issues?

How well does it carry in the upper end of the range, especially 25-30 lbs? For weeklong trips, especially with my wife along (I end up with all my normal gear plus all the food), I will be in the 25-30lb range to start.

[Charles Ledney]

Roger,
Before going lightweight, I had a Gregory Shasta which was a great fitting pack. It’s hard to judge how comfortable it was considering I ended up carrying 40-50lb loads! I had considered the G Pack briefly, but it really got some bad reviews, especially durability. I know that they addresses these in the second round of G packs. Have you had any durability issues?

How well does it carry in the upper end of the range, especially 25-30 lbs? For weeklong trips, especially with my wife along (I end up with all my normal gear plus all the food), I will be in the 25-30lb range to start.

[Anonymous]

Charles,

Yeah my first Gregory was the “Massif” it was designed for anyone who wanted to bring everything including the kitchen sink. But that was many years/miles ago. As far as the G Pack goes I’ve been a happy with the overall design. Gregory has addressed the 2004 version’s issues. The updates and refinements are obvious in the new 2005. I feel durability isn’t an issue, sure as a test I’m not about to toss it fully loaded off a cliff … But I do feel confident that this pack will hold up just fine to normal abuse. I’ve never pushed the weight limit past the upper 20’s on this pack just because… well I haven’t had too. But again thus far (10 months) I highly recommend this pack and checking it out.

Regards,

FastWalker

[Charles Ledney]

FYI, the Mithril is currently not in production as the military has requestioned all the available Spectra. I did discuss the use of another fabric like Dyneema with Moonbow and they seem interested. It wouldn’t be as tough, but then it wouldn’t be as white either!!!

[paul johnson]

Charles,

if you get a chance to reply, would mind educating me a bit? what is the diff b/t spectra and dyneema? a year or more ago, i had read somewhere that they were very similar. was this incorrect?

[Richard Nelridge]

As far as I know they are one and the same material. Dyneema is the name of the trade mark of the company that actually invented/makes the product. Spectra is the Allied Signal (or I now believe Honeywell) licenced trademark for manufacture and sale. Usually Spectra is white (very difficult to dye). For Backpacks and such Spectra usually refers to Full Spectra- the white fabric. What is generally referred to as Dyneema however, for fabrics as with Backpacks is a ripstock fabric in different colors with the white Dyneema or Spectra fiber running through it for added strength.

Rich

[Bill Fornshell]

The biggest difference between Spectra and Dyneema is that [I/we] can buy all the Dyneema we want and I don’t think we can buy the Spectra at all or at this time. The Dyneema ?? called Spectra Ripstop by Quest is ($6.50 a yard) and is sort of Royal Blue with white and from OWF ($11.20 a yard) is Black with white. I have some of both.

I also have some old white full Spectra in the form of a Kelty White Cloud Pack but I am not ready to cut it up.

[paul johnson]

Thanks Richard and Bill. Appreciate your replies. I’m going to have to locate the owner “cards” that came attached to some packs I have. It was there that I read about the Spec. & Dyn. fabrics. Packs were ’03 and ’04 models. They looked identical. The ’03 had a Spectra grid/rip and the ’04 model which was listed as having Dyneema. They looked identical in appearance – to me, at least. I hesitate to say more as my memory isn’t totally clear on which make & model of pack it was.

[Richard Nelridge]

Paul,

I believe that the 2 packs will probably look identical. I believe as I indicated that it is a licensing issue between the Japanese inventer/maker and the licensed product sold and or manufactured by Allied Signal (Honeywell) at the time of manufacture. Otherwise they should be identical. They just changed the name between the 2 sources? from Spectra Grid ripstop to Dyneema Grid ripstop. This all comes from my understanding and discussions with Dan McHale when I ordered my custom Full Spectra/420 HT packcloth McHale Pack and research on-line regarding Spectra (Allied Signal [now Honeywell]) and finding the web-site information from the maker/inventor in Japan.

Rich

[paul johnson]

Richard,

thanks for the clarification.

i had also read elsewhere that they were identical. i was thinking that i wasn’t recalling that correctly since a prev. poster mentioned that D. was neither as white or as strong as S. thanks again.

seems like i can always count on R. & B. as well as about 4 or 5 other regulars for ans to my questions. thanks, i do really appreciate it.

[Bill Fornshell]

Taken from the Montbell web site:
“Dyneema:
Made by DSM high performance fibers, Dyneema is the strongest fiber in the world.

Dyneema is a super-strong polyethylene fiber produced using a patented gel spinning process. This remarkable fiber is up to 15 times stronger than steel and, weight-for-weight, is 40% stronger than competing aramid fibers. It has high energy absorption and low elongation. Dyneema floats on water, and is extremely resistant to abrasion, moisture, UV rays and chemicals. As a result, it has an almost unlimited range of applications, providing maximum strength and security for minimum weight. (“From DSM’s website”)”

Montbell uses this on their “Nupri Pack Line” in 25 – $129, 35 – $139, and 45 – $149 (Liter sizes). I like the looks of the 35L size. It is 2140 ci. in. and weighs 2 lbs. 12oz.

[Richard Nelridge]

Here is some information from Honeywell, I believe that they are perhaps a bit more conservative in their information at least here:

http://tinyurl.com/43hfm

Rich

[paul johnson]

R & B,

more thanks to you both. plenty of good info.

[Ryan Faulkner]

Golite makes packs with the dyneema material and Bill forgot to mention that montbell makes 3 larger packs with the same material in 50,65,and 80liter capacities

Golite
http://www.golite.com/products/prodlist.asp?category=15&type=U
Montbell
https://www2.montbell.com/america/asp/products/Spg_itiran.asp?cat=1301

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