Backpacking Light @ Philmont

[Steve O]

RJ reviews bear bagging in this article: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/bear_bag_hanging_technique.html

[Phil Barton]

Steve, the bear bagging at Philmont is a different class of problem. Ryan's techniques work very well for hanging your individual food bag. At Philmont with a crew of 12 the food bags can be about 100 pounds after resupply. Part of Philmont's bear protection protocol is that hikers will also put smellalbles in bear bags. Smellables include food, water bottles used with drink mix, sunscreen, toothpaste, etc.)

Because most campsites at Philmont are used regularly cables have been suspended in the range of 15'-20' above ground. Philmont provides each crew with several pounds of rope (150' about 4 pounds) and 2 large woven nylon bags (about 2-4 pounds).

It's a fun challenge to look for ingenious gear and techniques to reduce weight. It sounds like Mike has even found a way to provide a mechanical advantage for hoisting such a huge load.

[Mike Barney]

Paul M, PM me

[Rich Bowman]

For what it's worth . . . I purchased 600 ft of the 7/64 Amsteel blue from Redden Marine http://www.reddenmarine.com/site/index.cfm earlier this year for $0.13/foot plus shipping. It's not shown on their website now, but it's probably worth a phone call.
-Rich
628O

[Mike Barney]

I was able to get some pictures posted and a description of lighter weight bear bag approach.
You can see it here.

http://www.mikebarney.net//BarneyBag.html

I would appreciate any feedback you have.

Regards,
MikeB

[Douglas Prosser]

This discription at first was complicated but the more I looked at it, this seems to be a really sweet way to hang the bear bags with little effort.

There were a few times in the past I did not have the upper body strength to lift the bear bags, especially with 5 day load-out of food but this arrangement with 2:1 advantage may be just the ticket.

Are you getting ready to sell the whole set-up for Philmont? From all the attention my articles have gotten I wager you have a protentially large market with Scouts. Perhaps you can approach Ryan about carrying it.

To really understand this I would have to practice for a few times like you recommended. But I certainly would be interested in taking a set-up to Philmont this year to give it a try. Any chance Mike…

[Mike Barney]

Hi Doug,
feel free to drop by Scottsdale this coming weekend (hey it's not that far from CA). I have a cable setup @ 17 feet to practice with. Same as was in the photos'

It seems to take the Scouts 2 times throwing the bag to get it down. Adults seem to get it in 1….

Anyone else is also invited. PM me for directions.

Mike

[paul buzzard]

If you bring rope, do you get grief over it? We have nice poly rope, higher strength than 1/4 nylon, lighter, and proper lengths (100')min, two ropes, and a pulley system already. Will we be able to substitute this, or have to argue our way to not being able to use it, worst case. We have used on canoe trips with very heavy food packs no problems in the lift end.

[Jim Colten]

If you bring rope, do you get grief over it?

We brought a combo of nylon rope and mule tape in 2007. Got no grief as long as we used their approach of hanging from two separately tied ropes. Although I sometimes wonder if that sort of experience might vary depending on who you get as a ranger … or staff at staffed camps (some camps did nightly bear bag inspections)

[Scott Bentz]

We plan on cooking in some sort of bag this year. My question is how large of a bag you use. Are you putting the whole crews food in one bag (12 meals) or are you splitting this up in some way say 2, 4, 6 kids?

Also, the "frisbee" method is what? I understand we will be straining and then putting leftovers or chunks of food in a cathole. It makes sense to take some sort of mesh, but I don't get the Philmont frisbee method.

Thanks,

Scott

[Mike Barney]

Scott,
Yes, we put all the dehydrate in one bag, then pour the hot water into it. These are usually turkey roasting / oven / freezer bags, we've typically used the 2 and 5 gallon roasting bags. Some also use ziploc or other plastic bags, but I can't speak to their ability to withstand the heat. Several also put the bag with water and dehydrate into a "Cozy" to give it structural support and keep it warm.

The "Frisbee" is literally a frisbee that has a bunch of 3/16" +/- holes in it that is used to drain liquid out that can go into the sump (a pipe into the ground with fine mesh over the top. You strain what you can into the sump, then the rest (your "leftovers or chunks") goes into a 'yum-yum' bag that get packed out to the next trash accepting facility.
Another post here indicated there can be another option on the frisbee, that is using paint strainers (similar to the panty hose mesh). It's lighter and has to be easier to use than the frisbee…

Does that help?

Regards,
MikeB

[Sarah Kirkconnell]

If any of you are planning on making a cozy for turkey bags, let me know. With a days time I could get you the dimensions on how big to cut your Reflectix. Cozies dance in my brain when I sleep ;-) lol…..

[Scott Bentz]

Thanks for the information Mike. It did clarify those items. Does anyone use the Frisbee to play with. We're from So. Calif. so we must all be accomplished Frisbee tossers.

[Curt Ward]

Scott,
Several of our Scouts use a frisbee as their bowl, when they are done eating, it is also their entertainment. The frisbee is light weight and packs easy.

Have fun,

[Phil Barton]

Sarah, if you would, please, do list dimensions for a cozy to use with turkey bags. I am planning to make a couple next week.
THANKS!
Phil

[Sarah Kirkconnell]

Phil, I'll pick up some turkey bags tomorrow and run some numbers on Tuesday ;-) Have a feeling it will be similar to the cozy dimensions for the "steamer bags".

[Paul Mergens]

All,

Our crew used turkey bags last year to "cook" our meals. The easy clean up was well worth the weight of the bags. On boiling water, if your crew brings their own 4 or 6 quart aluminum pots with heavy duty tin foil lids (which I would recommend over the Philmont pots/lids), I would mask off the sides of the pots and spray the bottom of the pots with some black high temp stove paint. The "Black" bottom pots will boil water much faster, conserving fuel and speeding up the food prep process. Also, all stoves should be used with some sort of foil wind screen, even if it is not windy.

Paul

[John Myers]

Scott,
They strongly discourage using the sump frisbee to play with. Seems they don't want any extra bits of leftover food to be distributed around the campsite.

[Jeff S]

We just used an even simpler cooking and cleaning setup on the Philmont trek I took the last two weeks.

We carried 2 JetBoil systems with the 1.5l group pots. We left all the Philmont pots at basecamp.

Each night we'd light up both stoves and 2 minutes later we'd sanitize everyone's bowls and sporks in one of the pots. Then we'd add water to the food packages and let them cook. When they were done, 1/2 the crew would eat out of the packages and 1/2 would eat out of thier bowls. The sanitizing water was then re-used and the cleanup station.

This resulted in ZERO cooking pots to cleanup and only 1/2 of the crews bowls. Very quick and easy. Much simpler than other methods I've read about online.

[Roger Caffin]

> Each night we'd light up both stoves and 2 minutes later we'd sanitize everyone's bowls and sporks in one of the pots.

Wouldn't it be better to wash everything after use and before it is packed away – they way we do at home after a meal?

[Jeff S]

We clean our dishes after the meal, but we still sanitize them in boiling water before each meal.

Kept everyone healthy the entire trip.

[Roger Caffin]

> Kept everyone healthy the entire trip.

Interesting. I have never bothered with that in 40 years.

I wonder whether the real effect of the idea of sanitising everything before eating is to make the kids think about washing their hands? We always give our hands a quick rinse before I start cooking dinner.

Our experience in Australia has been that many kids don't bother washing their hands after going to the toilet when out of reach of mother. And that has been the cause of gastro etc.

Cheers

[paul buzzard]

Just got back from Phil on Sunday. The reason for sanitizing the dishes pre meal is to reduce the possibility of contracting Hanta virus, a very nasty, potentially life threatening bug. Very low probability of contracting, but possible. I would agree that hand washing is more important, something we did almost every pre meal.

[victoria maki]

being that i hike single, guess i've never thought of sanitizing my utensils. just rinse them out and let air dry. after all these years, i have never gotten sick. maybe in a large group, if you are not using your own bowl everytime, i guess it would be a good idea to sanitize….

[paul buzzard]

You have to realize that there are about 25,000 people who go thru Philmont in a season, and they are trying to put policy's and procedures in place with each crew to ensure safety for all, and a clean place to camp in time after time. In order to do this, they use the rangers to get each crew on the way with specific training. Whether or not it is "right", is certainly open to question, however, having no training would no doubt create a big mess in campsites. It seems draconian sometimes, but obviously works, as we had clean campsites, thou worn, and no bear or minibear issues. Keeping 25K people doing the best practices possible is a major task, and I think they do a pretty good job of it.

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