2008 LuxuryLite Big Survival Stik Walking Staff REVIEW

[Bruce Warren]

What… me worry? about California? When lots of websites sell bowie knifes, butcher knives, etc. In Texas you can legally carry a concealed handgun. But the word 'concealed' is the tricky one. The whole Survival Stik is very hard to conceal. A hunter with a bowie knife in a sheath on his belt is breaking the law in CA, it appears. Same with a trout fisherman and his fillet knife. Or a VET with a big Horse hypodermic in his truck.

Texas Law says: (a) A person commits an offense if intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club. [Exceptions: official; actor was own premises; was traveling; engaged in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity; security guard].

Therefore, I suspect you are on the trail, you are OK, if you are hiking thru the local mall and stabbed someone, they could get you on the 'concealed' part of the law. And I bet most states kinda follow the same thinking.

BUT, you can easily cut the needle knife down to the length of the standard joint if you are worried. It is aluminum and you can cut it with any hacksaw or carpenter's chop saw.

Or, leave the whole needle knife at home… it's modular!

[Bruce Warren]

Jim,

You can easily cut it into a two prong tip with a hacksaw and sharpen with a file… it's aluminum, not hardened tool steel.

Bruce Warren

[Bruce Warren]

the woods around Houston have thousands of wild pigs. They love to poke at your tent at night, that is the main reason I came up with the needle knife… I wanted to poke right back.

Bruce Warren

[Bruce Warren]

Andrew,

Your TrailStik did not have the tip filled with epoxy to allow it to be used as a water pipe. The Big Survival Stik tip is filled with epoxy since the tip pulls right off if you need the hollow pipe. Doug's Stik was a prototype I gave to Ryan Jordan last summer and it has a few difference from the production model… maybe I forgot to epoxy the tip.

Bruce Warren

[Bruce Warren]

Josh,

…but the LuxuryLite Big Survival Stik is a great example of LUXURY light… even Doug 'felt' good when using it.

One BSS weighs less than almost all pairs of ultralite adjustable poles, which are typically 13 to 17 ounces. It's a difference in hiking style, not weight.

And the BSS has a lifetime warranty against breakage… no other carbon pole offers that because skinny carbon tubes break easily.

Bruce Warren

[Doug Johnson]

Thanks for jumping in here Bruce- great to hear from you!

For the record, Bruce is right that no other carbon pole manufacturer offers a lifetime warranty. Very true.

And it IS a style difference. I'm glad you understood the "feel" difference that I was trying to convey.

Cheers,
Doug

[Gail Lusk]

LoL Who's lifetime warranty is this?
Is it the BSS Walking Staff or is it mine(mine's pretty much worn out) or is it your's Bruce?
I might bite the dust before you, can it pass on to my children?

Loved the review and the video!
In all truthfulness Bruce makes GREAT products and I love the fact of thinking outside the box!

[yung hsiang Chaung]

i have been carrying a small dia. LL Trailsticks for 2 years.

No any complaint. It's really great product.

I am a fat guy(210lbs), sometimes i feel my knee hurt when i downhill. But after i use LL Trailsticks (this great helper), no more pain again. And u only carry extra 3-4 oz.
What more you can ask for??

So last week, i just place another a pair of Big Survival Stik with GREAT price. (they are on sale now)
http://www.luxurylite.com/ssindex.html

Guys , try it WITHOUT prejudice.
I am sure you will love it.

Bruce, keep to design more great product, we will support you.

Daniel

[Bruce Warren]

Great question Gail!

Actually it's my lifetime, unless some big corporation buys LuxuryLite, then it would be your lifetime… I guess.

(A lifetime warranty is actually an R&D expense… we get to see where the product needs improvement. The warranty says you get a new part when you send back the failed part… that is a benefit of modular designs… it is not too costly to do a lifetime warranty.)

So send lots of orders so I have lots of money to buy health insurance, drive big safe vehicles, eat expensive organic health food, hire lots of employees so I can relax on the beach, etc, etc.

Bruce

[Gail Lusk]

Aloha! Bruce,
I do hope you know I was joking as well!

Yes, come to Maui and make me a specialized, customized new designed LuxuryLite backpack…with curved up ends :P

The Carbon poles into a curved anodized aluminum ending??? Just a thought!
Or how about a carbon pole travois? Just sickies need more help in hiking ya know!!

[Addie Bedford]

My son wants to watch the "Trail Ninjas" video over and over and over again. You're a hit!
Best,
Addie

[Doug Johnson]

RIGHT ON! That's the highest praise possible!

Give Blake Jr. a big HEE-YAH! from me!

[Theodore Brennan]

I think you have a small typo in the text of your review.

At one point you say that the pole deflected 1.1 *inches*.

But the chart has all of the deflections measured in *cm*, including the figure of 1.1 cm for the BSS.

So I think the inches figure must be a mistake.

the staff looks great–if I were a rich man, I'd get one.

[Doug Johnson]

You're right- thanks for pointing that out Tad. We'll get it fixed ASAP.

Best wishes,
Doug

[Richard Allen]

Thx for taking the time to reply to my post in a kind and detailed manner Doug. Sorry it took so long to get back to you Doug. Very busy lately. I 'll try to answer your comments/Qs in order.

First: I fully understand and appreciate that you may only review what you've been given and (*of course*) cannot review items not listed on an MFG's site. WTS; as I mentioned earlier …. BPL staff reviews are exemplary! I do hope you didn't think I was criticizing your review.

Basket Tips: Please note that LuxuryLite now offers a "Tip Top" kit which includes QD basket tips and accessories. Very Nice! Bruce listens.

Custom lengths: As others have noted; LL will do some custom work. Just ask. :-) E.g. I needed a 45in (nominal) size pole for my Sixmoondesigns Gatewood Cape. A quick eMail to LL and voila!

Comparisons: Tough One! Most LL's products are unique but look similar to other products. For example the Modular Frame pack looks (kinda/sorta) like a typical external frame pack.

And like the LL Stiks; hikers w/lesser experience may be disappointed if they don't realize that the LL product is indeed different. And must be used in a different manner than what they are accustomed to for best performance.

A good example is the hand-strap: Those who are somewhat knowledgeable and used to "Legacy" trekking poles would probably try to place their hands thru the bottom of the strap and suffer for it. Of course, your pics show you using the hand-strap properly. BTW, I seldom use the straps. Usually I just grasp the Stik's body.

My Hiking Style: Undefinable because it varies not sooo much. Easier to say I do not hike for longer than 2 weeks at a time now. Getting old and crippled.

Peace,

Richard.

[Doug Johnson]

The snow baskets are a great new option- thanks for sharing Richard! Sometimes there is significant drag when pulling a pole with baskets out of the snow- especially when it's wet or crusty snow. I can imagine the lower sections coming off occasionally.

Have you ever experienced this Richard?

Thanks again- and by the way, no offense was taken at all! I always appreciate thoughtful discussions on this site- even disagreements. I think your input is valuable for anyone considering this pole- thank you!

Happy hiking!
Doug

[Richard Allen]

By posting the image and choosing "Edit" I am now able to reply to your post. Here goes………

I haven't had any probs w/the poles coming apart …. in snow or mud. I mix and match sections for the tightest fit. Plus I have found that after a while the aluminium oxidizes, causing an even tighter fit. My poles require a twisting motion and good hand strength to R&R sections and tips.

Note: The pic below is of a new Leki snow basket and a slightly used LL basket, as delivered w/the LL "TipTop" kit. The Leki basket is much more pliable than the LL.

I avoid winter mountaineering. So please forgive my ignorance if i'm wrong. But it seems to me that a pair (or?) of LL Big Survival Stiks would make a pretty good avalanche probe when joined together. Thoughts?

I was rushed when I posted the parts pic earlier in this thread. Some captions would've helped. Ooops.

From left to right:
LL Basket tip which I cut down. It's lighter weight (Hooray!). And doesn't tangle as much on overgrown (ie; nonexistent) trails.
LL Basket/Tip as delivered in "TipTop" kit.
My original basket/tip made from sourced LL parts.
Custom 19in OAL section made for me by LL.
17in OAL section w/a P&S adapter which I cut down.
Needle *trowel* w/a one gram cork plug and a velcro adjustable handstrap. Comfy and multi purpose. Weight similar to OEM handstrap.
Needle Knife w/a hose (water filters, etc) adapter plug. Also multi purpose. And LTW. ;-)

I enjoy modding gear. Specially LL gear.

Peace,

Richard.

[Frank Ramos]

I just got back from hiking about 1000 miles in the mountains of Central Spain using this stick. Some comments:

1) I absolutely need to be able to put my hand on the top of the stick during certain manuevers (pole-vaulting deep stream with high banks on the side, so that the pole is only at mid-thigh heights when buried in the stream bed, etc) and the stick as shipped is very uncomfortable for this. So I added a 3/4" rubber cane tip from the hardware store to the top, with some duct tape underneath to hold in place. This worked well.

2) the strap slips down easily. I added some crikled duct tape around the middle of the pole to stop this.

3) the gold colored tip slipped off during a stream crossing because it got stuck in some very tenacious clay at the bottom of the stream. This was in March and the stream was hip deep (and cold!!!) where the tip slipped off, so I ended up having to dive down to retrieve it. Luckily I did retrieve it, but then the same problem occurred during another stream crossing. What happens is that the friction between the tip pieces is reduced when they get wet and cold. Moisture acts as a lubricant and the male and female alumimun tip sections shrink/expand at slightly different rates due to cold/heat. If the tips are sized to be snug when warm, then they will be loose when cold. If they are snug when cold, they will be very tight when warm.

In order to avoid more slipping, I bent the male tip sections slightly in the field so they fitted tighter. This solved the slippage problem, but because the fit was now excessively tight, the male sectino exerted heavy pressure on the female section when assembling the pole and eventually one of the female sections came unglued and slipped deeper into the tube so that now the tip didn't fully meet and this pole was very weak at this point. This happened in May, near the end of my trip. I managed to complete the trip without problems, but I see this as a serious shortcoming, since there is no way to repair this problem in the field. My tarp is designed to use any stick, including a tree branch, as the front support, but I'm getting tired of sticks letting me down. All of the cam sticks I've used in the past have let me down eventually and now I'm seeing that this luxury lite stick also can let me down.

4) Because of rain and other factors, I once decided to make an early shelter and apparently did so in a place where someone could see, who then called the police. They came to investigate and told me I had to pack up and leave because camping was not permitted where I was. In the course of packing up while being watched by the police, I had to insert the knife piece back into the rest of the pole. I did this quickly and discretely as possible, but certainly if the police had been watching more closely and if they had wanted to nab me on something serious (they didn't, they were just following procedures), this would be a great opportunity because of the concealed weapon issue. So I think it would be a good idea to cut the knife off so the short sections is like the other sections.

5) On the other hand, the knife was quite comforting when some wild boar surrounded my tent (I removed the knife section to make the pole shorter for use with my tarp). Not that I really want to fight a full sized male boar in pitch dark with nothing but a knife in my hand. They hunt these beasts in Spain and so I don't know why they were daring to approach me, but they did.

6) Incidentally, the knife will bend if you try using it as a trowel. A trowel is not necessary anyway. If the ground is soft, then just use the tip of the pole to push the dirt away. If the ground is rock hard, then a trowel is hopelessly ineffective.

7) there are times when I need to store my stick somewhere in or on my pack in order to rock climb. The luxury lite is somewhat cumbersome for this, compared to collapsible sticks, because I have to disassemble and store it inside the pack rather than just collapsing it and then hanging it on the outside of the pack. I don't do this that often.

8) The luxury lite is not nearly as good as collapsible sticks for use as a self-arrest pick when crossing snow banks on a slope. First, the tip is not that sharp. Second, because the luxury lite can't be collapsed, you have a lot of extra stick at the top which would likely unbalance you if you fell. I didn't cross many snow banks nor do I have much experience using any hiking stick during real (as opposed to practice) self-arrest manuevers. But the luxury lite would definitely be a poor choice compared to the tracks sherlock or one of the cam-lock collapsible sticks.

9) the luxury lite is as good as any other stick for fending off dogs, which is probably the single most important reason for a hiking stick, in my experience.

all things considered, I liked the feel of the Luxury Lite stick very much after I modified it with the rubber cap and the tighter coupling. But the possibility of the female tip sections coming unglued has me worried that this stick is not much more reliable than the cam lock sticks that keep failing on me every 1000 miles or so. I will probably be returning to the Tracks Sherlock Staff for my next trip, even though it weighs quite a bit more. The more experience I get, the more tolerant I am of extra weight in exchange for extra reliability.

[Bruce Warren]

Frank has some good observationsand some incorrect observations:

1) The Tip/Top kit now available includes a rounded rubber cap for those hikers who insist on using a 54" hiking pole when they really need a 72" length to cross those deep streams. An extra long hiking staff is oh so useful once you try it…

2)The hand strap slides down the full length so you can instantly make a very short Stik to dig in when clawing your way up hill. The tip has a flare to stop the strap from falling off and so does the top section.

3)Frank says he is "tired of sticks letting me down." But his LuxuryLite Stik finished a 1,000 mile trip still functioning despite his re-engineering of the joints. The aluminum joints expand/contract at exactly the same rate since the two mating pieces are the same alloy, so they do not get loose or tight due to temperature changes. This is why an aluminum liner is bonded to the carbon with flexible glue since carbon and aluminum have very different coefficients of expansion. The tip is designed to come off when it gets really stuck so that your forward momentum does not break the staff. If you are hiking in very unusual conditions like streams with sticky clay bottoms, you can put some bathtub caulk on the joint piece and then slip the tip on. You can get it off later if you really twist and turn the tip.

4)We sell an 11" Top Section with no needle knife for those places where you don't want to carry the needle. Or you can easily cut the end off the needle off with any hacksaw.

5)And wild pigs in Texas were the reason for creating the needle knife.

7) You can slide the hand strap to just above the middle and hang the Stik from your pack like other hiking poles with wrist straps.

8)To make a self-arrest pick, just use one section, put the other parts in your pack before you do the slippery crossing. Also, a traditional basket tip is now available. Maybe we need to add a tip that uses an ice axe point?

9) I am very impressed that Frank did 1,000 miles in the mountains of Spain. That is the most gruelling test the Stik has been thru so far. And Frank's report reveals that the Stik never failed him, the worst happening was retrieving a tip stuck in the mud. The Stik never collapsed or broke. It finished the 1,000 mile trek. And the joint liner that slipped a little is covered under the Lifetime Warranty.

[Christopher Williams]

I was very dismayed to find that LL has raised the price of this staff nearly $75 since this review just 6 months ago, and that one needs to buy an extra $67 piece to not have the knife.

A knife like this is gratuitous at best, and dangerous at worst, yet in order to have the functionality of the pole without the knife (one couldn't dream of passing through TSA security gates at an airport with that blade) one has to pay an extra $67. Why not simply offer both versions? Perhaps if LL were to, they would soon discover that the "Trail Defense System" is the gimmick it is, and lose a bullet point in their marketing material.

I would love the functionality and strength of a CF staff like the LL Survival Stik, but since I can't get one that I can travel with without spending nearly $300, I'll have to pass.

[Bruce Warren]

Chris,

Things that cost about $199: iPod, GPS, tent, sleeping bag, backpack, gas for one day of driving, one LuxuryLite Big Stik.

The secret is you only need one. Just one. When you use those skinny bendy poles you need two because you cannot trust them. My 5 years as a pro motocrosser trashed my knees (ACL, MCL, missing in action), I discovered that going downhill with one very long and very stiff staff is easier on the legs and knees than using two bendy poles. Because your brain knows you cannot really trust those skinny poles and your muscles stay tense all the time… just in case.

Sorry the Stik is out of your price range… but where else can you find ANY carbon hiking pole with a lifetime warranty and hand made in Texas? Add up how much have you spent on hiking poles in the last 10 years.

You don't have to buy the special knife-less section, you can cut the needle knife off with any hacksaw if you are sure you'll never want to carry the thing.

The needle knife is a very important feature to most customers, a lot of solo hikers feel a bit vulnerable out there with wild animals, loose dogs, and a few strange characters wandering around.

But, in reality, the needle knife is a mere toy compared to the classic hi-carbon 8" hunting knife in the leather sheath you see hanging from the belt of many outdoor travelers.

-=Bruce Warren

[Christopher Williams]

I agree. I'm sure that the Big Stik is a fine product that is worth every penny. I am just dismayed at the price hike of 60% less than 6 months after a review was written on it. I was excited to buy it when I read the review, but when I saw that the price jumped from $125 to $200 I was a bit let down. Not that the price went up (I understand that, as a consumer I will have to deal with occasional price increases on everything), but that it went up so drastically.

That said, I don't think that I would pay $200 for a pair of poles either, and, since you asked, I haven't spent a dime on poles in the last 10 years as I've never used them.

[Dale Wambaugh]

Too much the overpriced gadget for me. I would question the concealed weapon issues too. Not much use as a shelter pole for me as it isn't adjustable.

Might as well have a section of bamboo with a strap. I've built ones with bottom sections from discarded trekking poles bedded in silicone adhesive. Bamboo pole with a carbide tip and snow basket mount!

I'll stick with my Black Diamond poles and Komperdell staff. Heck, all my poles, knife, and frog spear head didn't cost what this thing does!

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