bushbuddy stove as a snow melter

[Jim Colten]

It has been a long while since I winter camped but I'm looking forward to joining a couple other MN BPLers on the SHT in late Feb. That has me dithering over a whole new gearlist, including stove options.

So I took advantage of what will likely be the coldest day of the winter to find out how well my brand new bushbuddy would work.

Everything used in the test had been cold soaked overnight (min temp -15F)
climate -10F, warming to -5F during the test, wind 5-10MPH
site somewhat sheltered brick patio cleared of snow on well frozen ground
fuel long dead pine branches (bark has fallen off) 3/8 inch diameter or less.
stove current production (late 2007) std bushbuddy (not the ultra but it is the same size as the ultra)
pot 5" diameter by 5" tall medium gauge aluminum pot from a 30yr old camping pot set. Capacity is approx 1.5 liters if filled to the brim.
lighting the fire I used vasoline soaked cotton wrapped in a 3×3 inch piece of wax paper as a fire starter (avg wt 1 gram). That failed to ignite when struck by a lot of sparks from a FireSteel but lit instantly with a cardboard match and one of these firestarters was all it took to get the bushbuddy going.

I poured off the first liter of tepid water 30 minutes after lighting the match, the second liter 20 minutes after that. Another 20 minutes melted another 1/2 liter and brought it to a rolling boil

General impressions:

• used less wood than I expected
• needs almost constant attention (feeding fuel). Don't plan on walking away to look for more fuel
• breaking and handling the tiny pieces of wood needed by the bushbuddy while wearing warm mittens ain't easy

has all the smell of a nice wood fire but alas, not the same amount of warmth

Will I take it winter camping? …. still undecided.

[s k]

Jim,

Thanks for the cold weather report on the Bushbuddy. Just out of curiosity, would park regulation permit you to have an actual fire where you camp?

Also, in a recent thread "I don't know how to stay warm when I get cold" one of the comments included "My memory is the average naked person at rest in 0F conditions loses the ability to take care of themselves in less than 30 minutes." Would you mind continuing your testing in the buff, and reporting back on dexterity loss and general chill level? It sounds like your weather conditions are just right for killing two experimental birds with one stone.

I'll guess you'll lose fuel loading ability in about 26 minutes less than thirty, a few minutes before the stones disappear.

[Jim Colten]

Would you mind continuing your testing in the buff

We'll leave that test to Andrew

[Sam Haraldson]

Jim –

Thanks for the tests. I look forward to our trip in Feb. Could you comment on the approximate volume of fuel you collected in order to keep the stove lit for an hour of snow-melting.

The longest I've kept my Bushbuddy lit was probably around an hour when I guy I met at a campground and I decided to make a couple pots of coffee on with his percolator pot. One of us would tend to the stove while the other was off collecting wood. I seem to remember having gone through quite a few fistfuls of fuel and am curious if this quantity will be significantly larger in winter temps.

– Sam

[Jim Colten]

Thanks for the cold weather report on the Bushbuddy. Just out of curiosity, would park regulation permit you to have an actual fire where you camp?

Real campfires are allowed where we'll be camping and that's an option I'm still considering …. 1.5-2 hours of nursing the bushbuddy to make water for breakfast and the day's hike is not particularly attractive, but I haven't ruled it out.

[s k]

Nice link Jim,
A rather sudden realization that youth has its privilege!

I can imagine your dilemma. I have an old three quart plus, eight and a quarter ounce, two handled aluminum thrift store pot that has spent much of its life in and/or over a fire. It would be tempting for two or more.

[Royal Magnell]

Jim, did you wind up using your wood stove for your winter trip? I'm very curious how a wood stove might work for snow melting and I'd love to hear how that worked for you.

Blue

[Hendrik Morkel]

With any luck we will get some more snow this week, so that when I go out this weekend I can try it also, bringing the test population up to two known! I have the BBU and a 1100 pot, so it will be interesting to see how it fares. I could take a Ti-Tri + Inferno as well, but I am not sure if I feel like carrying it =)

[Royal Magnell]

Please do! I'm considering doing a trans-sierra trip latter this month and I'm considering using a wood stove rather than a canister or white gas. It would certainly weight less due to the fuel factor. I'm just not sure if it would be worth the hassle or if I'd want to deal with finding fuel in the snow. It sure seems workable….

Blue

[Jim Colten]

did you wind up using your wood stove for your winter trip?

I did not. Sam used his bushbuddy ultra to cook his supper, that seemed to work well but he didn't use it to make water. I broke out the old rocket engine (MSR Dragonfly), the noise may not have been appreciated by my companions but it did melt snow very well. One other person had a Simmerlite, another used Heat (worked poorly).

But this was just an overnight trip <3 miles from the car … a pretty low risk situation.

[Chad Miller]

I was on the aforementioned trip with Jon and Sam as I remember Sam's bushbuddy had a good deal of trouble (ie getting enough wood that would burn) boiling his water for dinner. I remember it took him just as much for him to boil 2 cups of water as it did for me to melt snow and boil 4-5 cups of water with my Simmerlight. Even Sam was bit perplexed why his Bushbuddy took so long and he had been using the stove at that time for more than a year and 2,000 trail miles.

Overall I'd say the Bushbuddy performed poorly for melting snow in real world winter conditions with temperatures below 20 degrees. Now for three season use and early winter the Bushbuddy seems to work great!

[Nia Schmald]

Bummer. Is there any science as to why wood doesn't burn well at winter temps? Or is it a problem with the bush buddy?

[Royal Magnell]

Too bad it doesn't work. Thanks for the info guys!

[Chad Miller]

I should follow up and say that I would post up your own thread asking about what people thing of their BushBuddy stoves. I am not too familar with them and I know that since Sam used his last winter there has been some new modles and a bit of innovation with the BushBuddy.

I'd ask around as see what more people think before giving up on the Bushbuddy.

[Fred eric]

I have used a few times a bushbuddy with BPL 1.1 pot for 2 people in winter for one week hikes.
Melting snow to do 4 liters of water isnt fast, you have to schedule it when you want to take a rest.
This photo isnt really a good exemple the fire was low, but as usual i find the BB works better with fast burning small pieces of wood than with bigger ones.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Perhaps a tiny bit less efficient in fuel usage than the BushBuddy, but the CC Inferno doesnt' have to be CONSTANTLY fed fuel, as does the BB, from several reports I've read.

Howsomever, the CC Inferno IS more efficient in use of heat than the BB due to its close fitting top. CC even custom makes their cone to fit your pot to insure that efficiency.

So It's the CC Inferno for me.

[Chad Miller]

It is good to note thought that dispite the C. Cone being a efficent alki stove it will still take a long time and weigh more (much more the longer you're out) to melt snow for water than using a lightweigh white gas stove.

[Miner]

Yes, but many of us just don't want to carry the white gas stove if at all possible even though we know it works well when cold.

[Royal Magnell]

Awesome! It does look as if both a bushbuddy and the CC Inferno would do quite nicely in the snow. Now I need a wood stove… maybe it'll go on the Christmas list ;)

Thanks fellas!

[Hendrik Morkel]

Royal, I used the Bushcooker LT II this weekend instead of the BushBuddy. I wasn't impressed with the Bushcooker, as it needs very small wood pieces and while I can go goofing off to collect more wood, I find the BBU or Ti-Tri Inferno much more eficient because I can use bigger pieces of wood, and they are both a lot easier to feed.

Anyhow. Melting snow and getting it to a boil took me, for 1l of water, approximately 20 minutes. Its a time consuming process, but once water is slightly hot putting in more snow was getting easier, as it pretty much dissolved instantly.

[Chad Miller]

Just a bit of data reguarding using alchol stoves in winter

A while back I had a discussion with the maker of the White Box Stove regarding the use of alcohol stoves for winter backpacking trips where you need to melt snow for water. Bill (the owner of White Box Stoves) did some test that showed that it takes 1 ounce of fuel and nine minutes to melt enough snow to produce 1 cup of water. These tests took place in temperatures of 3 degrees with a 5mph wind. A wind screen was used with the White Box Stove. The stoves will have to melt and boil water for drinking and cooking 2 hot meals a day.

White Box Stove:

Stove and windscreen weigh an ounce.
Warmed heet is used for fuel.
You would use around 18 ounces of fuel and three hours time to:
Melt and boil 3 cups of water for two meals and hot drinks
Melt 12 cups of water for drinking.

MSR Simmerlight:

Stove, windscreen, and fuel bottle (holds 22 ounces of fuel) weigh in at 11.3 ounces.
I use 8 ounces of fuel per day but carry 10 ounces of per day (safety margin)
I melt and boil 3 cups of water a day for meals and melt snow to drink 12-14 cups a day
This amount of melting and boiling water takes approximately 60-75 minutes a day.

Time Comparison:

Now using a White Box stove can be a completely acceptable method for winter use. However if you’re planning on doing a muti-day trip hiking higher miles (12-15 a day) in cold weather using a White Box stove with Heet may not be your best choice unless you like hiking and setting up camp in the dark as you’ll be limited to around five hours of daylight hiking.

Weight Comparison:

While the white gas stove I use in the winter is much heavier than a White Box stove the white gas stove is lighter in the end. Over a weekend trip a White Box stove user will carry at least 36 ounces of fuel (with no backup) and a 1 ounce stove / windscreen combo for a minimum total of 37 ounces. Using my white gas stove over two days I carry a total weight of 33.1 ounces (stove, windscreen, and fuel.) The differences in weight become even larger over a five day trip where the White Box stove will weigh 91 ounces while the white gas stove will weigh in at 61.3 ounces.

In Summary:

It appears that the white gas stove is both lighter and faster for winter camping conditions where you have to melt snow to obtain water for cooking and drinking.

However if you don’t have to melt snow for drinking and will only be using the stove for boiling water the White Box stove is much lighter and can work just as well as a white gas stove.

[Michael Skwarczek]

In my experience with Winter trips, and melting snow, and using a BB exclusively the rest of the year, I would never bring or rely on one during a winter trip where melted snow was a necessity. We run a white gas stove practically around the clock to melt snow and cook for two people. You simply can't maintain a consistent heat with the BB, and, I would argue (though I don't use one) with a CC Inferno. And you really need to be pumping out the BTU's for melting.

I have used a MYOG Heine Cone with a cat stove, and, so long as I had an insulated bottom, it boiled as expected. But not for melting snow. Never.

I've seen Chad's report on the WhiteBox. But, back when I obsessed over alky stove building, I'd found the pressurized side-burners we're most susceptible to cold and didn't perform well, or at all, under freezing conditions. I'm gonna have to try one this Winter, it's such a small package to add for a short trip.

Here's my suggestion: take a Winter trip with a whitegas stove, and bring the 6oz BB or CC Inferno along too. Give it a shot, and give a us a report. With the whitegas around you know you've got what you need. And hopefully we'll all hear that the twig stove did the job. I'd love to reconsider bringing mine.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Chad Miller's got a good point. My MSR Dragonflystove is a great winter stove – but it's the heaviest MSR stove made.

I'd want a C. Cone Inferno mainly to lighten the load. But also it can be used for warming hands and helping dry gloves and socks as well as for cooking.

However the Inferno can NOT be used to cook inside a vestibule during a bad storm, as can white gas stoves – albeit very carefully.

[Chad Miller]

I think it all depends on if you're going to be melting snow for water. In the end it's all a personal choice and you'll use what you're comfortable with depending on your climate.

[Hendrik Morkel]

I made a video of the Bushcooker LT II in winter conditions and thought to let you guys know about it. It wasn't as easy as my last time with it, the lack of appropriate wood made it a long undertaking. Anyhow.

I'll try the BushBuddy Ultra and the Trail Designs Inferno also in the same conditions and make a video if it. Its surely not as convenient as the multifuel or gas stove, but therefore you don't need to carry the weight of the fuel with you. I'll try more and report back =)

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