Article on living off the grid

[Virginia Craft]

Hey y'all! Check out my article for Gossamer Gear about living off the grid here in Big Sur. Go go gadget link!

[David Ure]

I think it is much easier to live off the grid in more temperate climes. Try that in Northern Canada.

[Virginia Craft]

You are probably right, and I would love to try it in Northern Canada! Each environment poses it's own challenges for sure, but humans are great at learning and adapting. Nevertheless, I feel plenty of things carry over into other climates when it comes to living off grid.

[Ken Thompson]

What about making money? For most, kids, debt, and work tend to transpire against us from living off the grid, right Dave?

[Jerry Adams]

"What about making money?" Like in "Walden Pond", the further you get from living off the grid, growing your own food and stuff, the more overhead there is. You get a job, then you have to have clothes and shoes and stuff that wears out, takes time and expense to commute,…

[Bob Moulder]

What exactly is "off the grid"… How far off the grid are you when all the "stuff" that got you off the grid came from the grid, and you need a steady supply of stuff from the grid to keep it so? Like when the solar panels need service or spare parts, or you need more gas for the generator, or you need more food to stock the shelves, or if you run out of wine? Even if you're not using a car, bicycles occasionally need new tires, chains and gear cogs, and shoes and clothes wear out… what to do when you've read all the books, you need to upgrade your iPhone, want to update your blog? Having the necessary financial resources and family circumstances, and living in a climate that permits such a lifestyle, are just a couple of the factors that prevent all but a tiny fraction of the population from participating in such an exercise.

[David Ure]

"For most, kids, debt, and work tend to transpire against us from living off the grid, right Dave?" Couldn't have said it better myself, Ken.

[David Thomas]

>"Try that in Northern Canada." I live north of 98.3% of all Canadians. And have several friends who live off the grid. And a community of 50 people who are grid-tied, but raise most of their own food, burn mostly wood, and supplement grid power with solar and wind. Things that make it harder in the north are: – short winter days. More, so, low-angle light that means any vegetation to your south will block PV panels. – high heating load – long winters Ways in which it is easier in Alaska: – there's lots of wood to burn so the pumps, furnaces, and blowers that typically heat one's house aren't an electrical load. – land is cheap. $5,000 for a few remote acres, a few thousand of materials, and you have a place with no mortgage and hardly any property taxes (often none, since there is a $20,000 home-owner exemption). – no air conditioning load. We have air conditioners in Summer. They are called "windows". – Other people are doing it. Why that matters: – The store has a froze-free hose bib to refill your jerry cans to haul water. – laundromats have showers. As does the Rec Center. – when you come over to our house for dinner, we're cool with you doing a load of laundry and taking a shower before dinner. We actually prefer you do that. On the money side: – The state hands out free month each year ($1,800 per person this year) which doesn't effect me very much but helps the lower end of households a lot. – there's more of a culture of casual labor if you want to work a few days each month. – protein is readily available year round. Salmon, birds, moose, etc. That keeps down the grocery bill. – no mortgage, no home-owners insurance, no electric bill, no cable bill, no phone bill, no gas bill (except gasoline for the chain saw), no gardener, no pool guy: I know people in SF who pay for those items each and every month than some off-the-gridders' entire annual budget. – IME, keeping busy keeps expenses down. If you're busy chopping wood, fishing, picking berries, clamming, and canning sour kraut, then you're not going out for drinks, to the movies, doing drugs, or lots of other leisure activities that burn through money.

[David Thomas]

>"For most, kids, debt, and work tend to transpire against us from living off the grid, right Dave?" Or not. Hig and Erin are raising their two kids off the road system (they are grid-tied, but somewhat loosely). They work, albeit creatively and mostly online. They spend vastly more time outdoors each year, doing far more epic stuff than any of us keyboard jockeys. Some friends in 12' x 12' cabins I know are single guys. One childless couple. Some parents with kids. Yurts cost less than 3-bedroom, 2-bath split-level suburban houses. A lot less. A remote acre costs less than any buildable lot in a metropolitan area. A lot less.

[David Ure]

David, I have always considered 'Living off the Grid' to involve actions that did not rely on electricity, running water, or heat from a furnace, all of which you describe. My definition would not include wi-fi or TV. No Subsidies from the government. It would involve growing your own food. Using reusable and sustainable sources of energy. Hunting when required. As a matter of fact, that sounds a lot like what my ancestors did so it is certainly possible but certainly not like anything that you have described. Perhaps your few friends are doing it right, however.

[David Ure]

"They work, albeit creatively and mostly online." How is this living off the grid? Given they do spend some times in towns (I follow their blog), they live off the grid…sometimes. Living in a 12 x 12 is not necessarily living off the grid, as I have described above.

[Kattt]

I understood "off the grid" as meaning without electricity unless it is a generator or solar power and water not provided by a county or a city, so either a well or a spring. That is what I thought, but as with anything else definitions change and evolve and are open to interpretation. Still, if you have power lines coming to your structure, whatever that is, It would seem a stretch to call that "off the grid".

[John S.]

Off grid means off electrical grid only, to me. Solar electricity is off the electrical grid or can be. Internet- don't need grid electricity to have it. Television- over the air etc

[Ken Thompson]

"Off grid means off electrical grid only, to me. Solar electricity is off the electrical grid or can be." Which means you can live an unremarkably boring life in town. 9-5, commute, all the in town BS, etc…

[Jerry Adams]

does cable count as the grid? TV, internet,… I assume that is But cell phone wouldn't be. Kind of expensive for sending data

[John S.]

I hear ya Ken. What the general consensus definition of off grid is..I don't really know. Good thoughts Jerry about cable tv or running water/flushing toilets.

[Ian]

Electrical grid. They aren't on it. They're off of it. In other words. They're off the grid. I like reading articles like this. I like my life but I hope in the not too distant future when I retire in six years five months and eight days that Amy and I can adopt a similar lifestyle nearish Leavenworth Washington, complete with thermal mass stove and a bucket o' sawdust to poop in. I admit the sawdust bucket is proving to be a tough sell. What's the trail situation like in Big Sur? Area looks gorgeous based on the pictures I've seen.

[David Thomas]

>"I have always considered 'Living off the Grid' to involve actions that did not rely on electricity, running water, or heat from a furnace, all of which you describe." I don't know anyone who has fully retreated to the 19th century in all aspects of their lives. Certainly, the people I know who aren't connected to the electrical power grid don't have pumps in water wells, hence no flush toilets, hence no septic system (decisions which each saved a bunch of money). They have outhouses, the trick of which, at -25F, is to carve the seat out of blue foam. And eat enough fiber. Almost all of them buy gasoline to run their beater vehicle (one guy, Hippy Mark, only runs dogs in Winter. In Summer his truck runs). And they use 20-pound propane cylinders for a Coleman stove, and for lighting in the "fancier" cabins. It's one of those things that are such an improvement over cooking on a wood stove or lighting with kerosene or candles, that no one seems to go back. Some of them have cell phones, but many have resisted for a long time. Many only check their email at the library or a friend's house. Growing your own food in the Far North is dodgy. Sure, you can grow potatoes, carrots, cabbage and a few other things that sell for $12 for a 50-pound bag if you put in a lot of effort and build an 8-foot-high moose-proof fence. But more commonly, they'd buck wood for someone for $12/hour and then buy bulk groceries because, like in the 1800's, you have to make smart choices. There is one crop that saves you a LOT of money to grow yourself. And it is now legal in Alaska. Seeing as how we're having this conversation via our keyboards inside of climate-controlled rooms, I don't think any of us get to tell others without electric-grid power, central heating, plumbing, or a foundation what "doing it right" means.

[David Thomas]

They work, albeit creatively and mostly online. >"How is this living off the grid?" I didn't say Hig and Erin were off-the-grid. But their electric meter spins very slowly because they heat with wood. Their yurt is off the North American road system – you have to take the State Ferry or a water taxi to get to Seldovia (although they and the kids did walk out of Seldovia, past my house and on around the rest of Cook Inlet two years ago. My point was, there's at least one BPLer with kids(!) whose at-home lifestyle is similar to off-the-electric-gridders or 19th-century homesteaders. And, of course, during their expeditions they put everyone to shame by getting by on minimal equipment and comforts and acting more like stone age hunter gatherers on the march (but with cuben tents and alcohol stoves). I can imagine story tellers of 25,000 years ago, "earning their keep" when they lodged with a group by conveying stories, techniques, and intel about trails and critters. Which is kind of what "Ground Truth Trekking" does using HTML instead of parchment and clay tablets.

[Virginia Craft]

I'm really just talking about living off the grid, not living off the land. There are no electrical powerlines anywhere within sight, nor do we watch TV, and there is no cell service here. We perform all of the general upkeep of the area and do not call plumbers, mechanics, etc. if something is wrong–we fix it ourselves. Yes, we have Internet, but that's because satellites are amazing and some of the things I do for work involve being online (plus, we enjoy staying connected online), so yea, personal preference and the times are a-changin'! We grow some food here and will be growing more in time. Like the original homesteaders of the area, we, too, make infrequent trips to town to stock up on things like rice, beans, coffee, etc.; unlike the original homesteaders of the area, we have a car and we drive to town. We live simply and don't require much more than what we have here. As for work, I'd mentioned I do some work through the computer, but we are also caretakers of this property, so we get paid for that, and I have another job helping friends on their farm every so often. Living off the grid means different things for different people, true, but given modern society (and especially given the lifestyles of most people my age–I'm 28), this is a looong stretch away from the creature comforts of being on-grid. Besides, as I mentioned in my article, I believe a grid-less mindset to be far more important :)

[Virginia Craft]

Ian, perhaps plant some roses around the sawdust bucket? :)

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