Philmont GPX Wanted

[Mark Hinch]

I maintain the free Philmont Trails map at gpsfiledepot. I'm happy to say that that map has been downloaded more than 7000 times in the three+ years that I've been working on it – I think it has been of assistance to many people. The map is an amalgamation of my own Philmont treks plus the GPS tracks I've obtained from others. I believe the map accurately depicts 100% of Philmont, but I'm always on the lookout for changes/errors. If you would like to contribute your GPX information for the betterment of future Philmont trekkers, I will use it to check current trails and add trails and camps that have been newly created – please send your GPX files to mhinch-bpl at hinchfamily dot com. Future Philmont trekkers thank you!

[ed dzierzak]

You are probably aware of the GIS data Philmont has on their site. It is in KMZ – separate files for border, points of interest, and trails. I don't know how often it is updated. http://www.philmontscoutranch.org/TrekPreparation/PhilmontSpatialData.aspx

[Mark Hinch]

Ed: Yes, I'm aware of that. It was useful data but it only covers about 50-60% of the trails. It was last updated in mid 2014. I've even found some definite errors in it (to my immense surprise given how careful PSR is about stuff like this). Given other GPS tracks I think I've able to cover the entire ranch, but I worry about trail changes and additions (and of course errors I may have in mine too). So that's why I'm always on the lookout for any GPX that anyone can give me. I check each one I receive meticulously against the existing trails I have to see if there are any changes, errors, etc. -Mark

[ed dzierzak]

Well, I looked at the PSR data. There were a number of track fragments. I agree, it's kind of surprising when you consider the other stuff PSR does. Thanks for putting all this together.

[Edgar M]

Mark, We went in 2013 and I believe I still have all of our tracks saved on my Garmin Oregon 450. Would you consider this data recent enough? What software would you recommend I use to pull off the data. Its been a while since I played with up- and down-loading data on the Oregon. Edgar

[Mark Hinch]

Edgar: I'd be happy to look at your 2013 trek traces, and I'd be really happy if you answered a few questions about your trek after I look at the traces (I often wonder: what *really* happened out there on day 3…). I also have an Oregon, so I think this should work (I'm not with my Oregon at the moment, so I'm working from memory…): – attach Oregon to PC with USB cable (USB port is on the bottom of the Oregon) – probably some mystical windows driver thing happens – when prompted on Oregon, indicate that you want to go to "mass storage" – on PC, open file explorer window on the new "drive", e.g., "G:" – go to Garmin -> GPX directory. Your trek traces should be there as GPX files – mail them to me at the address below – no further processing needed If any of that does not work send me a note with what happened and we'll figure it out. -Mark mhinch-bpl at hinchfamily dot com

[Brad P]

It looks like this isn’t being maintained and Philmont revamped their site so the Philmont page that had files is gone.  Anyone have a GPX files for Philmont?  I guess it might be tough for 2019 since their are new camps and trails due to the fires.

[Gerard Mulford]

I’m interested in obtaining the latest GPX files as well – 2019-625E here, doing #28 up into the Valle.

Brad, check out Mark’s stuff on gpsfiledepot (https://www.gpsfiledepot.com/maps/view/570/) if you haven’t already.  I’m on a Mac, so… not sure how those look, supposedly ~2017 accurate.

The Philmont site shows GIS data (https://www.philmontscoutranch.org/philmonttreks/facilities/gis/).

First time Garmin user here, still way down the learning curve on this device (eTrex20+).

[Brad P]

Our selection day is today.  Our top choice is 22, which goes through Valle Vidal and a new camp, Chase Cow.

I will check those out after we get our trek confirmed.

[Bruce Tolley]

@ Brad
there is an Open Wiki StreetMap project that has been soliciting inputs from treks in other Philmont forums.

Check out https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Philmont_Scout_Ranch

[Brad P]

I was able to pull this into Basecamp.  Obviously it doesn’t have the new camps.  Hopefully having a July 28 trek will allow others to update the files before we go.

I mostly want to have it for entertainment/emergency purposes. The scouts will be using the maps and compasses.

[Gerry H]

I posted some info on Open Street Map and CalTopo in the thread titled “Geek Challenge”.

The slightly condensed version:

The KML file on the PSR site is from 2017 (it’s there, just look around for it), and has almost every location and trail (only missing one I needed). Ignore the trek numbers in that file, they are for the 2017 treks. That file only shows the ranch boundary, none of the surrounding areas in use. The trails are broken up very haphazardly (and not named), so don’t expect to just grab a single trail line and be done.

OSM and thus CalTopo have all of those trails, plus the “access roads”, and all of the sites. You have to zoom in pretty far to see them, but they are there. Another bonus is that OSM has all of the surrounding land in use boundaries clearly marked. Also, trails on OSM in CalTopo ARE continuous lines between camps, so they can be traced and measured easily.

[Brad P]

Cool!

[Gerry H]

Just to add detail to my area of study – I am only looking at the Southern section of PSR, specifically 12 day #7 and #27.

Garcia Cow is supposedly new, but it was on OSM, but not the trails to it. It helps that there is a building in an large open pasture you can find on satellite pictures. The new trails on PhilTreks.com were easy enough to approximate over there since they go along access roads that are visible from satellite views.

The two brand new camps I am looking at use pasture and access roads for trails. That makes sense, because cutting new trails takes a long time. My guess is all new camps will be accessed in similar ways for Summer 2019, so look for access roads. The new trails will be conservation projects for a couple of years.

[Gerry H]

I had spare time and felt there was an audience for a solid Philmont starter map. So,at CalTopo I have a map that is shared:

https://caltopo.com/m/PP96

It has all the 2019 camps that are listed on PhilTrek.com, plus the 2017 edition of the Ranch GIS Department file. The 2017 GIS file included the camp boundary, camp locations, the turnarounds, and numerous peaks marked. I also added several peaks and secondary camp markers using the Open Street Map data. I drew in boundaries for the surrounding land that PSR uses, and cleaned up the ranch boundary corners. Finally, there is a ROUGH indicator of the 2018 Ute Park Fire perimeter.

With the Itinerary Guide, and the OSM or TF Outdoor base map, you could get a decent map for any trek. In the samples I looked at the PSR GIS trail and the OSM trail differ within one or two tenths of a mile.

CalTopo can export a GPX file if you need that. I have made no comparisons to the GPS File Depot file that has been mentioned, because I don’t have anything that needs GPX files.

[Brad P]

Thank you very much for all that work!  I’ve never used caltopo, so I’ll have to play around with it to build our trek 12.

[Gerry H]

CalTopo is definitely worth learning. I was using “My Maps” on google, and thought I was doing a good job making custom maps for scout trips. They were well received.

Then I started using CalTopo and it was like going from a plastic toy workbench to a full-size Snap-On rolling toolbox. The tools are similar, but they are so much more refined. Another big improvement is how well Open Street Map and USGS data can be incorporated. The single best improvement is having real contour lines on the maps.

The ability to save more maps and print 11″x17″ custom topo maps for my scouts to use is worth the $20 membership level. But you can learn and use it for free.

 

BTW, I have found some confusing/contradictory info in the two itineraries I am looking at. Like the text and the table not matching. Looking at the itineraries on a real map alerted me to the issue. One is so wonky I’m waiting for a clarification from PSR about it. Itinerary 7 has typical miles per day of 5 or under (hitting lots of program areas). Then the last day is almost 12 miles! Sure it can be done, but it seems odd.

[Brad P]

I haven’t been there yet, but I can only suspect the fire caused many hours of headaches putting together new treks.

[Phillip M]

Gerry H,

If you hear stuff from PSR about Itinerary 7 please share.
That was the third on our list but the one we got.
Clarks Fork to base via Tooth Ridge aka the “Trail of Tears”

 

-Phil M

[Gerry H]

Well, I just looked at our Venture Crew’s 7 day itinerary. They go  2.3 miles, 2.3 miles, 3.9 miles, 7 miles, 7 miles, and then an 11.4 mile final day. On that last day they go from North Fork Urraca up to Shaefers Pass and Peak, then ToT, then down the Switchbacks to the Inbound Gate. So they also some serious elevation change on the last day.

So, it might not be unusual to have a long last day. But they have a 50% jump instead of a 100% increase like ours.

Itinerary 27 is pretty close to 7 miles a day, except for a short day 2.3 miles after they get dropped off. They also have 9.9 miles on day 4. So no big jumps for them.

[jeremy schnabel]

Gerry,

We and making our first trek to philmont on 6-20 (we arrive in Albuquerque on 6-18), the boys selected and received itinerary 16.  I had planned on customizing the already downloaded gpx (or whichever format it is) to eliminate  the other itinerary lines, either current or from previous years.  I also have the 2017 map that I will mark up pre philmont.

My son will be the primary navigator for the trek. They will all take turns but he will be the constant.  My plan was to go over as much as I could before.  During the trek I will be checking the course on my phone with backcountry navigator pro.

Do you, or anyone else know of a way to update the maps or eliminate trails or an easy way to delete what I wont need?

[Gerry H]

Only way to eliminate them in a GPX file is some of the desktop software from Garmin and the other GPS makers. I can’t give you any pointers on those packages, or how point-n-click they are.

You could go to CalTopo and export my basic PSR map to GPX, but it has NO trails and lots of locations (see post #3577472). However, CalTopo has a good Open Street Map layer/option that does have most trails. CalTopo also has an autotrace (called auto-route) function that can draw a custom (and exportable) line along OSM routes. One gotcha to watch out for is that the auto-route will pick whatever route is shortest, including fire roads and so-called “staff trails” (non picturesque short-cuts) that the ranch does not “encourage” you to use. This can be over-ruled by clicking on “good trails” along the way so the function stays on good trails. There is a brief explanation of the function here:

http://caltopo.blogspot.com/2016/03/auto-routing.html

I had good success using PhilTrek.com to find out what sub-routes connect camps if you search for them by name. The trails in OSM are named/labelled by what camps are on the ends of them.

I have not been to the ranch yet (thank you Ute Park Fire of 2018), but I plan on only pulling out a GPS device if we are in some sort of catastrophe (fire, flood, injury). One benefit of all my digital mapping is that I can practically draw our route from memory on a paper map. Our other two adults are pretty good with paper maps, and our scouts navigate by consensus.

[Gerry H]

For anyone still paying attention, PhilTrek.com just posted revised location data for a few of the 2019 camps. I updated the CalTopo starter map. The URL is unchanged, but it won’t auto-update on YOUR map. The map is a mixture of the official 2017 PSR GIS file and PhilTrek.com data, along with some from OpenStreetMap. All sources are noted in comments for a location.

https://caltopo.com/m/PP96

Keep in mind that if you pay $20 a year you can print up to custom-scaled 11″x17″ (aka tabloid) paper maps from CalTopo. Philmont wants Scouts to use a compass and paper map – but they never said it had to be THEIR map. Yes, you will need multiple pages (use both sides!), but it sure is nice not having to squint to read the map. Plastic lamination is a real nice thing, too.

 

[Gerry H]

The ranch posted a new for 2019 data file on their GIS data download page.

They rearranged their data layers and added new stuff like conservation project locations. It will take some time for me to work through. My guess is that this is where PhilTrek.com got their revised data from. So, I PROBABALY have the new camps in the right places since I used his revisions. Keep the mindset that all of this mapping ahead of time is just for planning and not for cruise missile targeting.

I suppose this just reinforces the idea that the paper map the crew gets when their crew leader checks in at the ranch is the iron-clad navigation tool.

BTW, they are supposedly now selling the 2019 maps at the Tooth of Time Traders.

[Brad P]

Good info.  I need to buy our maps.

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