Recommended Food Bags for Philmont?

[Aubrey W. Bogard]

In reading through the 2015 Philmont Advisor's Guide, one recommendation is to take an "extra large (20 liter size) stuff sack for food, in case Philmont food packages accidentally rupture and leak." I'd appreciate very much some feedback from those that have been on recommended approaches for carrying and storing Philfood. I've read that it's relatively heavy and bulky, but 20 liters seems like a REALLY big bag for food. I'd especially appreciate any sage advice on minimizing bulk and specific recommendations on food bags. YIS, Aubrey

[Jim Colten]

I've been there twice but the most recent time was five years ago. But from those experiences I wouldn't call 20 liters excessive. But it will depend a little on the longest time you have between resupplies, which you can't know until you know your itinerary. Both times I went we asked everyone to bring some sort of bag for their share of the food. That was useful every morning when we packed up … everyone just grabbed their bag and put into their pack. Also avoids quibbles over who is carrying how much.

[Aubrey W. Bogard]

Thanks Jim! Is there some sort of affordable option for the food bag (e.g., turkey bag, compactor bag) that's a practical alternative to a more-expensive stuff sack or dry bag?

[Jay L]

We use a variety of MYOG sacks for personal food/smellables. We use the stuff sacks from tents that have been retired – usually cut them down to 1/2 or 3/4 length. We have also made sacks from either retired/damaged tents or $1/yard nylon.

[Jim Colten]

I used an MYOG silnylon stuff sack. Easy to make if you have someone with a sewing machine … search the internet for "silnylon seconds" for affordable fabric Instructions here

[ed dzierzak]

#ERROR!

[Michael Geoghegan]

Completed a 12 day Trek in August. All the Scouts had a 20L stuff sack (waterproof) which ranged in weight from about 1.5 to 3.2 ounces depending on the bag and price point they chose. Worked great! Everyone could quickly drop their food in a pile for the bear bag when we arrived at camp and it made it really quick in the morning to retrieve your food. You can go smaller. A few of us had the zPacks Blast food bags, but for scouts the 20L price and size worked well. I'll have the boys do the same next time. Michael

[Aubrey W. Bogard]

Thanks to all! So besides the volume challenge, how much weight can we expect to be carrying in food between resupplies (i.e., how much average per day and how many days)?

[Daniel Budd]

We finished our trek this August 15th. To be honest we did not have any food bags other than what we got from outfitting services (the Tyvec bear bags Philmont issues). This means we simply divided the food we were carrying by everyone in the crew. In review I think each person having a designated food bag would be good for the reasons on less sorting when the bear bags are dropped. However I'll admit, I may not encourage it on our next trip. We had no problem with the way we did it, and we didn't have the extra weight of more bags. In case you didn't know Philmont already has the meals in numbered bags each for two people. So you already have these bags. The crew leader simply gave a call out each morning for how many food bags each person carried and we grabbed them up and packed. It didn't matter at all what bags were grabbed because we always sorted out the next meal first. It really didn't take much time, and was kind of a good process of teamwork by the crew. Yes Philmont food is bulky, you get boxes of crackers, lots of snacks in wrappers. We all would probably strip this stuff down if we were packing at home, but at Philmont you just deal with it and get on with hiking. At the most we carried 4 days of food at one time. It probably averaged something like 8 or 9 lb. per scout.(I wasn't near any scales on our biggest pick up). Whats really a gas is the huge garbage cans of food they give you on the first day! We looked at it wondering how in the world it would fit in our already full packs, but it did fine. I highly suggest you get a light silnylon crew tarp that uses your trekking poles. Its one of the easiest ways to cut crew gear weight. I hope this helps. Here is my personal Philmont gear review if you would like to see. Happy trails! https://youtu.be/V4aMfqFAUX0

[Daniel Lee]

Each member of our crew had two 2-gal ziplocs for food and smellables. Many of the "zippers" failed at some point but we could pick up new ziplocs from any staffed camp since this is what we kept our "strainer" frisbee in. Use a sharpie to label everyone's bags. Easy! Weight is a bit more than a pound a day. There are some folks who have measured this very diligently. A search of this forum will help…

[Rich Bowman]

I’ve done it both ways – with and without individual food bags – and much prefer using the bags.  It makes collecting the food much easier when you arrive at a campsite.  No more overlooked food packets.  Also easier to pack up again in the AM.  Everyone just grabs their food bag and personal smellables bag and off you go.

Figure about 2 lbs of food / person / day – including extras like tortillas, etc.  All the food goes into the food bags along with compacted trash in between staff camps. Each person also has a smaller personal smellables bag in addition to the food bag – to keep small items from getting lost (and dirty) in the big bear bag.

[Edgar M]

Revisiting this topic.  My crew of 10 liked the idea of individual food bags to lessen the need of dividing up food and smellables in the morning.  For those of us with Philmont experience, we also like avoiding the roughness of the Philmont grain bags.  I’m taking the individual bags one step further.  I bought some 1.6oz ripstop nylon in 6 different bright colors.  I’m making 11 bags.  There will be 2 each of 5 of the colors.  Each person will have a bag that color matches their tent mate.  When the bags are dropped, there will be no question of which bags belong to which pair.  The 11th bag will be the oops bag.  Each bag hold about 20 liters and are a roll top design.  I’ve completed 3 so far and the weight is about 2.5oz each.

I wanted the 1.6 for a little extra strength over 1.1 and because it came in colors I wanted.  Unfortunately, it was not available in  silnylon.  What are your opinions on whether I need to DIY a silicon treatment?

[Edgar M]

Reporting back for 2016.  I did treat the bags with silicone.  They were not waterproof, but did shed light rain.  Overall, the bags worked well and did make it easier to sort our gear in the morning.

The only concern our ranger had was whether the bags could be tied up with larks-heads.  This was not a problem.  Later on, we used the roll tops with 3/4″ clips to fasten the bags to the bear line.  This was much faster to put up and take down.  In hindsight, I should have used heavier ribbon/strap on the roll-top and 1″ clips.  The 3/4″ grossgrain I used did not fail, but looked a little worn out by the end of the trek.

Also, a single 20 liter oops bag was not enough for our crew of 10.  I should have made 2

[Brad P]

OK, reviving this thread.  I understand food is issued in packs for 2.  So, if I got a bunch of non-waterproof 20L stuff sacks and each crew member had one, would they then split the food up into individual meals, except the things like dinners that are 1 package for 2 people?

With the food being in Ziplocks, then put into the stuff sacks, they would be safe even if it rained.

I don’t have time for MYOG at this point. If I got bags for our 9 crew members (I have a Zpacks food bag for me) we could number the bags.  Just remember the number.  These could be used again in future treks.

I could get 9 of these from REI.

[David Y]

Every camper having a dedicated food bag is a good idea to keep food consolidated in their packs. But we do food distribution differently from the above mentioned.

Every morning the bear and oops bags are retrieved and emptied at the fire ring by the assigned tentmates. The Crew Leader divides all the food into equal or appropriate piles for each camper to pack. Then each camper collects and packs his share of the food and Ditty bag. These go in the top of his pack last, last in first out.

Having a special bag to put the food bags in would be alright but not particularly necessary and adds a little more weight.

During commissary food pick-ups, we go through Philmont’s food bags to eliminate unnecessary packaging and unwanted items to lighten the weight and to avoid carrying item we won’t eat. We just cut very small openings in the bags to get the items out and seal it back with a piece of duct tape.

Philmont issues 4+ tan polypropylene bear bags about 30”x 40” per crew, 3 can be used to hang all the issued food and the 4th can be used to hang everyone’s personal smellables “Ditty” bag.

Many years ago, we chose to make our own bear bags of 1.9 oz. ripstop nylon in bright primary colors. Ours, like Philmont’s, are not waterproof nor need they be as Philmont’s thick heavy plastic food bags are waterproof. And most campers’ personal Ditty bags are water resistant if not proof.

Our bags are just a little lighter than Philmont’s but more importantly we can easily identify our brightly colored bags from all the other tan bags on a bear cable.

Rather than a second (or third) Philmont issued 1 lb., 3.2 oz. ¼” bear rope we carry our own 3mm oops bag cord with light reflective strands. The oops bag is where the crew first aid kit and all personal meds are hung so ours is easily found and identified in the middle of the night with a flashlight.

We also need and use these bear bags and ropes for our local Philmont training and troop backpacking.

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured.” Moonshine

[Brad P]

OK, so not really necessary for us to get a bunch of separate bags, but could be helpful.

The distinguishing the bags thing made me think that maybe we just need some brightly colored paracord or similar to tie to our bags.

Philmont is cool with your smaller Oops bag cord?  How long do you get, 100′?

[David Y]

Brad P

I don’t understand why you “need some brightly colored paracord or similar to tie to our bags” to / for?

Philmont is very cool with our oops cords and bear bags. We’ve used them on our last 5 or 6 treks (we take 2 crews) and never had a Ranger object to them, our one-pot cooking methods or our being on the trail half hour before dawn.

We use BlueWater 3mm NiteLine Utility Cord (or similar) which has a 500-pound tensile strength which exceeds any oops (or bear) bag need. We bought a 100m spool and cut in in 100-foot lengths the same as bear ropes and each only weighs 7.5 ounces.

The best part is we can distinguish ours from every other crews’ oops rope on the same bear cable and find it in the middle of the night.

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured.” Moonshine

[Brad P]

I don’t understand why you “need some brightly colored paracord or similar to tie to our bags” to / for?

As you mentioned above, the groups of bags all look alike. It would be to distinguish our bags from others.

Of course if we use colored paracord for the Oops bag, that would accomplish the same thing.

Would this cord be good for Philmont Oops bag?

[David Y]

Brad P

I’m not sure “paracord” we get today is as tough as the original parachute lines they used to surplus. Too many cheap (Chinese) imitations on the market so I’m afraid to say.

Whereas we are paying about $36 per 100 foot and the one you found is only $14.50 I would be skeptical of quality and durability. And it doesn’t have a reflective strand.

If you only have one crew going and don’t want to buy a 100m of Bluewater cord at $108, you could buy two 50-foot pieces at $17 each and tie them together, you will need a knot in the center anyway. Otherwise, I’d spend the extra money and get a 100m spool.

[Brad P]

Thanks, David.  I’ll get the two 50′ pieces.

[David Y]

Remember, try not to over think your adventure, KISS

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured.” Moonshine

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