Ultralight Outfitters Beer Can Stove System for Esbit Fuel

[Anonymous]

50mm diameter
ALFLIGHT stove by JSB

[Yukio Yamakawa]

ALFLIGHT stove by JSB

[Carol Crooker]

Hi all,
I just published a SpotLite Review that should answer your questions about weight and material.

[Sunny Waller]

Bill..I suspected you were a softie :) I will work on my beer can..a cozy will probably work the best. In my 30 years of backpacking I have had many near misses and some of them involved pouring boiling water holding a swinging pot by a bail. I am a potgrabber or handle on the side of the can type of gyrl. I wonder what would happen if I put 3 of the silicon bands up near the top. Maybe thats high enough not to melt.

[David Lewis]

Sunny… thanks for the words of wisdom :) I suspect you are right on… there is no substitute for having a firm grip on a pot full of scalding water. I think what I will do it… if I do make a cozy… I will make it out of neoprene and just slip it on the pot after cooking. I’m pretty sure it will melt during. I’ll try those bands too.

[Sunny Waller]

I do not have any neoprene. I made some gram weanie flip flops out of a blue foam sit pad the other day so I have some scraps left over. Guess I will try that out. I think i would also rather grab the can by wrapping the cozy around it versus sliding the cozy down the hot pot. Could put velcro on it I guess

[David Lewis]

“think i would also rather grab the can by wrapping the cozy around it versus sliding the cozy down the hot pot.”

Oh… I fully agree… I’m just pretty sure that the neoprene will not survive with it on during boiling. But we’ll see. The best solution would of course be to have it on while boiling. I guess this works with the JetBoil because the heat sink soaks up all the heat from the sides before it can get up that high… plus you don’t need a windscreen with a JetBoil and the windscreen… to be effective… has to be fairly high… and therefore will really concentrate a lot of heat right next to the beer can. Anyway… more experiments this weekend :)

[Bill Fornshell]

Sunny: I credit my cats and kittens in a very large part to my recovery from cancer. I should say I guess, that they really helped me keep my mind off the treatment. I was in the hospital for 8 weeks from Nov 2005 till 13 Jan 2006. I was able to go home most days for 8 or so hours. I would work on backpacking gear and play with the cats and kittens. I would laugh so hard at their play my side would hurt. Anyway they will be taken care of the best I can as long as they live. There were my support group. The cancer is dead and I am slowly working through the side effects. Life is good.

The plan for your Cook pot should work. I also carry a light pair of glove liners with me that could be worn when cooking.

When doing a test boil the flames from my stove didn’t look like they went up to the top of the pot. The heat might and I will boil some water with the cozy band on it and see what happens.

Making a cozy from the blue foam pad is a good idea.

[Joshua Mitchell]

David,
Neoprene on a can pot will be subjected to a maximum temperature of 212 degrees from the aluminum. The maximum temp of the water is 212, and the thinness of the aluminum doesn’t prevent heat flow at all.

The only problem would be is if the flames were climbing the sides of the pot and touching the neoprene. However, as long as you’ve controlled the height of the stand and the flame from your alcohol stove or esbit tab, that should be no problem.

The added benefit of having a cozy on the pot is that any area covered by the cozy will not need a windscreen due to neoprene’s insulating nature. At least, in theory it shouldn’t. When I get some time I’ll make an insulated can pot and a low power alcohol stove and test my theory.

[David Lewis]

Thanks for the info Joshua!

I have had problems with the flames licking up the pot… since it’s such a tiny diameter pot. But I think I could move the stove or esbit closer. One thing that just occured to me is that I measured the distance from the top edge of the stove to the tent stake supports… but because a can pot has a deep depression in it… the actual bottom is effectively another 1/4 – 1/2 inch away!

As for the windscreen height… I always thought that the reason for a windscreen to go higher up the pot was for better protection against the stove being blown out… not to keep cooling winds off the pot and funnel more heat around the pot. If that’s the case, I will make my stand/screen a little shorter.

[John austin]

The handle is already done. to see it go to—http://minibulldesign.com/myadventure/media/1/20050824-CUP5.JPG

Have a great day!!!!

[David Lewis]

You handles look really cool John… and probably lighter than a neoprene cozy… I’d just prefer a solution that’s more packable (i.e. the cozy or a collapsing handle or bail). One idea might be two bails that, when folded down, could act a handle.

[David Lewis]

Ok… after redesigning my windscreen to be lower and fighting with my sewing machine all evening trying to figure out how to sew neoprene… I finally got a new prototype with cozy.

The windscreen has a 3/4″ gap, comes up just to the top of the lower “band” on the heineken can (about 1.5″ up the pot) and the pot to burner distance is about 1″. Cozy melted. Flames were licking up the side of the pot.

However, I started wondering if MORE distance from the flame might be the answer? I keep trying closer and it’s not helping. I’ve observed that alcohol flames tend to “stick” to other surfaces within a certain distance. So I donned some mitts and lifted the can while the stove was burning… and sure enough… with more distance, the flames don’t crawl up the side of the can. Somewhere around 1.5 to 2 inches seems about right. Further than 2″ would probably slow down boiling too much.

One other thing I discovered… the glue in that aluminum tape stuff… highly flameable… LOL :) Fire extinguisher is always on hand too in case things get really hairy. Anyway… the tape put on quite a show. It seemed like a great idea for making a peice of foil long enough for my windscreen. Oh well. I’ll have to use a mechanical connection. I just wish I could find some bigger cookie sheets.

[David Lewis]

The options for lifting a beer can full of hot water seem to be as follows:

1. Handle
(like the minibull cans). I don’t know how to do the soldering, so I haven’t experimented with the handle option. I wonder how hot it would get tho’ being soldered right to the can. In any case, I don’t like the packability of a can with a non-collapsable handle.

2. Bail – 6 grams
Works great for lifting the can off the stove. Doesn’t work well for pouring. The can is not so stable and when you pour with your hand so high above the steaming water, the steam tends to come right up to your hand when you try to pour. I would try a double bail to add stability, but you still have the problem of really hot steam coming into contact with your pouring hand. Plus it’s just hard to pour with such a high fulcrum.

3. Cozy – 11 grams (3.25″ band)
I’ve tried a number of different pot to stove distances and I always get cozy-melting flames licking up the side of the small diameter pot. I’ve thought about making a cone shaped one for the top of the can where the flames can’t get to it (like the lip guard) but I’d be worried about it slipping off.

4. Pot Grabber – 14 grams
I’ve decided that, although perhaps the heaviest option, this is by far the best (without having tried a handle). This can grabber I made from a coat hanger is very strong and has an extremely good grip on the pot being wedged between the lip and first “flare” of the can. The key is to make the ring as round as possible and to not make the ring the full diameter. Make the ring about an inch shy of the full diameter so you can get really good spring tension when you clip the handle ends together. Also, this thing is very easy to clip on and off… so you can leave it off while cooking/boiling so it doesn’t pick up any heat… and just clip it on when you’re done. It also stows inside the can. Don’t mind all the messy kinks in the handle. This is the first and only one I’ve made (my very first idea actually which I rejected due to weight)… so it has a lot of kinks from different bends I was trying. The next one will look much nicer and be easier to grab. It stows in the can BTW. You could make it to clip below the top big ring in the can… but I tried that and if you’re not careful, you can crimp the alunimun there. The can is strongest at the lip (and base of course). Total system weight (can, firefly stove, windscreen/stand, lid with handle, can grabber and elastic band to hold the top on for stowing) is 2.35 oz. (67 grams).

BTW… Ultralight outfitters says you can lift the can by the lip guard. I’ve tried it and I don’t think it’s the best solution. It’s very hot… it’s a very small area to grab… it could slip off… etc. Most of all though… it’s hot!

p.s. I never drink hot beverages… so that’s not a design condideration for me. I’m just trying to find a safe, stable, cool to the touch way of getting a can of hot water off the stove and into my food pouch.

[Bill Fornshell]

David, I really like your pot handle. I may see if I can make one like it out of one of my Titanium bike spokes.

[David Lewis]

Titanium would be good because it’s strong and yet springy. I may also try a heavy gauge stainless spoke (I can’t get titanium spokes here… bike shops don’t carry them). The coat hanger was just a first experiment… but after playing with bails and cozys and lip guards I’ve decided that this is the only way to go (for me). So now it’s time to refine a bit. The coat hanger works great since it’s so strong and springy. The last thing you want with a pot of scalding water cantelivered at the end of a grabber like that is for the grabber to fail. A heavy gauge spoke might work… but I don’t know how much lighter it would be (if at all).

p.s. the fake ‘livestrong’ bracelet I got at my local dollar store melted… big time! Maybe it wasn’t silicone.

[Anonymous]

Hog On Ice and Stovestomper were using esbit stoves and heineken cans years ago. It’s amazing to see how people freak out when someone makes a new esbit holder…haha.

David, that pot grabber looks dangerous. You will have to use a very tight grip to hold and pour the weight of two cups of water having only a couple millimeter lip to keep it from falling out. Be careful with that boiling water.

[David Lewis]

Trust me anon… it’s rock solid. I don’t have to use any grip stength at all… none… the grabber does the gripping with spring tension (see the way the back of the handle clips together… and see how far appart the ends are when unclipped… spring tension). I’ve held a full can of water with that thing (more than 2 cups) and bounced the can up and down… swung it to and fro… poured it out… filled it from the tap at full pressure… whatever… it doesn’t budge at all… i cannot get it to fail… it’s clamped on there tight as a vice… really. So far, I’d say it’s far better than the other options I’ve tried… in terms of both function and safety. And I’ve tested it with hot water too.

As for nothing new… it’s new to me… and I’m having fun “freaking out”, experimenting, inventing and learning from others.

I might add, there are a lot of homemade alcohol and esbit solutions out there… but I don’t see many complete kits (lid, pot, stand, windscreen, handle, stove/esbit holder) for 65 grams. This is just an experiement for me to see how light I can make a complete and very functional kit… and it’s a lot of fun… in a weird, geeky inventor kind of way :P

Anyway, I’ll stop posting for now until the design is completely finished and trail tested… probably in a week or so.

Cheers.

[Anonymous]

Not to take any of the steam away from the stove inventors, but maybe you might want to check out: http://zenstoves.net/ or http://zenstoves.net/CanPots.htm

My personal homemade (but not original design) is a Hybrid Red Bull, Pressurized Side Burner, Jet Alcohol Stove. Note this stove doesn’t require a pre-heat disk

When finished the stove weighed in at 0.22 oz.

Add the Home Made Heineken Pot, Fuel Container Plastic (4 oz. Alcohol), Taco bell Plastic Spork, Home Made Pot Cover (Aluminum Foil), Home Made Wind Shield / Heat Reflector (Cut from a Turkey Broiling Tray), Pot Grabber (Commercial Available from MSR) and a Small Pot Scrubber.

The total weight of my kitchen (Minus Consumable, Alcohol Fuel) was less then 2.5oz.

I’d recommend anyone interested to build a alcohol can stove, it’s cheap, easy and fun…

[Bill Fornshell]

Hi Roger, Thanks for your imput. The Zen Stove site has been referenced several times on this thread and some other cook stuff related threads.

The total weight of your kitchen at 2.5oz is nice. For a hike of a couple days that might work for me or some of us. For a longer hike, say on the AT for many miles I have what I call my Luxury Kitchen Kit at just under 2 pounds. I want to eat something close to real food and bake a muffin at night if I feel like it and not just survive. I don’t want to lose a lot of weight etc. I also don’t want a lot of little stuff that isn’t very strong and could break easy such as your Plastic Spork.

I do appreciate clever and you kitchen kit at 2.5oz is a clever grouping of things. However even with my 2 pound kitchen kit I am under the SUL 5 pound barrier.

[paul johnson]

David,

Great pot lifter. Love the K.I.S.S. (Keep It Short and Simple) aspect of your design. Beauty in simplicity. Very nice. Very clever. Good job.

[Dondo .]

David,

I really like your coat hanger pot grabber; can’t wait to make one. Another solution I found is to cut a piece of blue foam to fit inside of your hand. The weight of the piece I cut is 5 grams.

[David Lewis]

A few things about the lifter…

1. Make sure it’s a fairly heavy gauge coat hanger… you need really good spring tension to get a good grip.

2. Make the handles narrower where they hook than where they meet the can. This will give you good tension on the can.

3. To make the hoop, use a soup can as a bending tool/guide

4. Make both hook ends full “U” shapes… one 90 degrees to the other… so they hook like a chain. The prototype just had an “L” shape for one of the hooks and it was possible to hit the end of the “L” with you hand and have the hook slip out.

5. You could make one to grip the can below the top bump in the can (just above the label) but my concern there is that you could have too much tension and deform / crimp / mildly crush the can enough so that the grabber might fail… and also wreck your can. I found that at the top of the can… just below the lip, I can ratchet that thing as tight as I want and it won’t hurt the can… provided the hoop is a perfect circle.

6. Obvious… but test it with cold water first :)

I’ll post a full write up in “make your own gear” when I get a chance… and I plan to trail test it this coming weekend. I may also make a bubble wrap foil cozy for simmer purposes… just like the anti-gravity gear cozys (i.e. for a “cook in the pot” meal… bring to a boil… attach the grabber… and transfer the pot from the stove to the cozy to simmer and keep warm).

[David Lewis]

Ok… I know I said I was going to hold off on any more posts until I was completely done with the design… but since a few of you are already making can grabbers… I figured I should post the updated design. It’s safer because of the way it hooks now (with two U shapes).

Notice how far apart the handle ends are when unhooked… makes for a very firm grip (lots of spring tension) when hooked:

Ends hook together like a chain:

Notice how I angled the end that hooks from above up a bit. I did that so that the two handles would be on the same plane with each other when hooked. That little angle up accounts for the thickness of the wire which otherwise would make the handles slightly askew from each other.

[Joshua Mitchell]

I don’t remember anyone mentioning it, but Arizona Iced Tea makes iced tea cans on 23.5 fl oz size, I think they are the same can as the fosters. So, for those of you who don’t do alcohol and want a can that meets the original specs (as it seems from pics that the henie can prevents the slide-up to squelch flame technique) you might try the Arizona can.

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