Ankle support with high boots

[Arthur]

Ok, I need ammunition. My hiking buddy is very resistant to giving up his 5 pound leather boots. He is in great shape and can handle them quite well. That is part of the problem. His big reason for use them is that he is very insistent that they provide ankle support. I think that is BS, but have no data to prove it other than anecdotal evidence. That is not sufficient for him. Any science here on low vs high boot/shoes and ankle injury or ankle support? I understand calf height, hard shell ski boots might offer some support, but boots just above the ankle???
I need some science. Thanks.
Art

[Todd T]

I guess the first question is why you need to change his mind. Depending on his feet, his gait, his etc., maybe the high-tops really do help him. That said, my anecdotal experience (sorry, no science) is that high-tops don't lessen ankle turnings and in fact can make them worse. Immobilizing the multi-way joint that is our ankle just makes it awkward to walk on uneven surfaces. Worse, I've yet to find a high-top boot that doesn't also have a high heel, and high heels most definitely make ankle turnings more likely. Anecdotally speaking, of course.

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

If he's happy with his boots and he can do the miles, I don't see any reason to change his mind. If you just want to win an argument, then maybe there's something in this thread.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=22522

[Dale Wambaugh]

I find more "ankle" support in the sole and arch, preventing pronation/supination from below rather than trying to wrap material around the top of the ankle.

He's gonna do what he wants until he's ready to try some of your Kool Aid. I'd sneek the beer in his pack if he's that tough :)

[Justin Baker]

Research articles from NCBI debunking the myth that boots provide necessary ankle support to prevent ankle injuries from AdvancedBackpacking

[Jake D]

Our ankles are meant to have flexibility and strength where it needs it. Hiking in boots weakens those muscles and creates problems when you aren't wearing them. Your ankles are built with a certain amount of give to allow balance and maneuverability on uneven terrain. Also your knees and hips are LESS built for taking that sort of side to side abuse.

think about someone that is in an arm cast for a month. you take them out of it and their arm is atrophied from non-use compared to the other one.

I find that I avoid things that would usually turn an ankle more when my feet are quicker and more sensitive to move around. I also find that wearing boots causes my knees and hips to be much more sore from taking side to side motion that is not natural.

some people you won't change though. ah well their loss.

[James Couch]

If he has no problem why try to change his mind?

Some people actually do need the extra support. (Check out Ehlers-Danlos for example) Not everyone is the same and trying to use our personal experiences to force others to conform is not always a good idea. I say leave him be.

[jscott]

+1 James. Maybe a better approach would be to ask him to assess his foot anatomy.

I have a very personalized boot system that is appropriate for my very weird feet and no one else that I know. It took me years to figure it out. It's nothing that would fly on BPL. But who am I gonna believe,BPL or my own lyin' feet?

[Justin Baker]

James, wanting to wear sturdy boots is one thing. Wanting to wear 5 pound boots on a backpacking trip is something else.

[Roger Caffin]

> I guess the first question is why you need to change his mind.
Exactly. HYOH.

The secret is to dance along with your UL joggers while he clomps along heavily in his heavy boots. Set a silent example. Mind you, if he matches you with a pas de deux …

Cheers

[Justin Baker]

I have a hiking friend who has worn light shoes but prefers his high top, side zip, composite toe belleville combat boots. He can outhike me so I don't say anything…

[Dale Wambaugh]

Roger opined, "The secret is to dance along with your UL joggers while he clomps along heavily in his heavy boots. Set a silent example. Mind you, if he matches you with a pas de deux "

Aye, and this from The Man in Tights :)

[peter tooke]

whatever happens, don't change his mind too fast…
for me ( older big guy ) it took a little time & conditioning to wean off big boots & be able to support loads with lighter footwear ( & especially from higher drop to lower drop shoes, which is related…) and get the feet back into some sort of shape. new muscles at work.
here's an article, with links back to here, that he might like:http://www.backpackingnorth.com/ultralight-makeover-give-your-feet-a-break/

[Earl Gilbert]

I like my hi-top boots because they protect my ankle bones from getting mashed up from rocks, sticks, roots, whaterever. I don't wear them for support

Ankles are designed to be flexible. There needs to be some movement allowed. Wearing boots for stability kinda defeats the purpose. Your joints alternate between flexible/stable all the way from your ankles to head. Ankles are flexible, knees are stable, hips are flexible, lower back stable, upper back and neck, flexible. Forcing your knees to become flexible to make up for your inflexible ankles is begging for problems.

[jscott]

High tops aren't casts. Your ankles still flex.

[Cayenne Redmonk]

I think they provide feedback on position and orientation of the foot and leg. Some people are undercoordinated, the extra nerve stimulation may be a real benefit for them.

[Matt Dirksen]

I'm not presuming, but If he's got a 35- 50lb pack, persuading him to change his footwear should be the LAST thing for you to attempt to do, science or otherwise.

Nothing like rolling one's ankle in a pair of running shoes 20 miles out with a 100L pack and a ton of gear.

While "science" may point to rules of thumb which we can refer to, the fact is that every persons set of ankles has their unique history of use.. and abuse. It is obvious to me that every ounce I can shave off my feet is critical, but not a level where the risk of injury goes up.

Personally, (perhaps due to ankle injuries playing volleyball) I have observed that my 3lb high top hiking boots offer my ankles much more "support" than my running shoes. How my ankles define support is up to them. Perhaps someday, with less on my back and stronger ankles, it will be moot.

[Larry De La Briandais]

"I think they provide feedback on position and orientation of the foot and leg."

I know they certainly do for me. But mine aren't 5 lbs either.

[Anonymous]

Well said, James.

+1

[brian H]

assuming you get to a place of a good nature debate on the topic of ankle support, I offer this…
I suffered thru 5 severe ankle sprains over a decade in my die hard basketball days, always wearing high top sneakers. So I gave this topic a lot of due consideration.
Basically high-top footwear does not provide significant ankle support in the uppers. If you take that type of ankle support to the extreme, you remove the ankles ability to function properly. I like the analogy of the downhill ski boot. These effectively immobilize the ankle, and have you ever noticed the result? In many cases, the immobilized lower leg sends the trauma to the knee. Guess which injury is most common on ski slopes?

[jimmy b]

Im with Willie and Larry but hopefully for a different reason.

I like mids but I am constantly buying lighter versions. I have no desire for heavy footwear. I don't look for support from the tops of my mids but for the feedback it gives me for balance, in fact the tops are usually pretty loosely laced. I do like a little higher top to ward of debris and guarding against sharp edged rocks as well. With inner ear loss comes some wildly off balance hiking. For a good part of the day I am in a controlled stumble. My only means of balance are from horizon reference and physical feedback from the waist down. You learn to deal with it but it gets worse with the loss of light. So I have learned with experimenting with low and mid top shoes that somehow the feedback I get from the shoes extra material on top helps greatly. I hope no one here has to experience this for themselves.

jimmyb

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