Dream Setup

[L Lanian]

So, if you could buy a hammock setup, as lightweight as it gets, what would it be?

Conditions:
It has to have rain protection
It has to have bug protection
Quilt/underquilt setup preferred, but open to other (lighter) suggestions
You have an unlimited budget. If you can save a gram by spending an extra $100, I want to know about it.

I have no issues dropping $1k or more on this setup if it gets me close to my tent/pad weight setup.
I'm 6'0", 170lbs

[Terran Terran]

Dream Thunderbird and Underground quilts.
Simply Light Designs and Enlightened Equipment quilts.
I have the Warbonnet Blackbird XLC. A little cheaper than the Dream, less wait time and almost as nice. A little wider.
Dutch Gear suspension.
Whatever you get, the fabric available to the manufacturer will determine the width.
Check Hammock Forums.net

[Wayne Koepp]

Dream hammocks Ultralight Darien Hammock with 8" amsteel continous loops. suspension Dutchware. Ti dutch clips 1 pair,10ft kevlar tree straps 1 pair, 4ft amsteel dogbonz 1 pair to extend tree straps if needed. Bias Hammocks strap anchors 1 pair. Hammock Gear Cuban Fiber tarp, Phoenix UQ, Burrow TQ. I'm sure when you weigh all of this it will be lighter than your complete tent set up and 200% more comfortable.

[Dale Wambaugh]

A Warbonnet Blackbird or Hennessy UL Backpacker Zip hammock and a Z-packs Cuben hammock tarp—- and then we get to insulation.

The lightest (and least expensive) bottom insulation scheme is to use a CCF pad, but that isn't the most comfortable. Down underquilts are warm and compact and the lightest lofted option. You can buy them in various lengths to suit the temperatures you will be exposed to, so you can go lighter by going shorter, up to your comfort level. Synthetic underquilts will work too, and you have the same down/synthetic issues as with sleeping bags: better in wet, but heavier.

I like an undercover with the Hennessy SuperShelter foam insulator and a space blanket. You can use the lightest windproof fabric you want as it doesn't need to support any real weight. A poncho with gathered ends will do and give you multiple use weight savings.

For topside insulation, pick your favorite UL quilt to suit the conditions. You can use a mummy bag too, with the same arguments as ground sleeping gear. A left hand zip is helpful with hammocks that have integrated bug nets as most ar left-oriented entry.

[L Lanian]

Hey Wayne, I was going to PM you, but you don't have it set up A few followup questions I had: the 8" amsteel continuous loops- is that a custom option I specify when ordering? Which of those items comes separately/are included with the Darien UL? (ie, am I buying additional sets? or just listing for reference) weighed it out, and it's roughly 6 oz less than my current ground setup. Not bad.

[Wayne Koepp]

You will need to contact Dream Hammocks to see if a continous loop will work on their hammocks I have a Warbonnet Blackbird which is a great hammock but it is a little heavier than Dream Hammocks Darien. I have my email address on the sight now and feel free to pm me anytime.

[Victor Jorgensen]

For your suspension, it would be hard to do better than Arrowhead equipments dynaglide whoopie slings: http://www.arrowhead-equipment.com/store/p376/Dynaglide_Whoopie_Sling_.html and Dutch's Kevlar tree straps: http://www.dutchwaregear.com/kevlar-tree-straps-pair.html I use this combo with my hammock, it saved me 1 1/2 ounces. BTW Dream Hammocks do offer continuous loops, I recently purchased a Roaming Gnome from them.

[Benjaman G]

Does anyone have a breakout for weights with this setup?

[KRS]

So my rig that Im using now is my favorite. After 10 years of having and trying almost every commercial hammock available This is by far the lightest most comfortable rig for me. The Dream hammocks Ultralight Darien with the Anti-Gravity mule tape suspension (DIY). My quilts are Hammock Gear 30 deg custom Burrow and Incubator made from 7D & 950 down. The tarp is a Hammock gear 3 season, what i think is now called the standard. HYOH

[dirtbag]

Question about the Darien. Im new to hammock camping. I use an UL setup for backpacking and camping and would like to test the hammock. What is the difference with the single or double layer with the Darien hammock?

[William Kerber]

Double layers are typically for you to be able to slide a sleeping pad between the 2 layers as your bottom insulation. Some people start that way before they invest in an underquilt as the bottom insulation. Underquilts are definitely more comfortable in my opinion, but others have used a sleeping pad for  years. It mostly depends on how much you are able to spend for your initial setup. For underquilts see Hammock Gear, Undergroundquilts, LocoLibregear, or ArrowheadEquipment. I’m sure there are others. If you are decent with a sewing machine, you can also DIY one out of Climashield pretty easily.

On another note, gathered end hammocks suite some people just fine (me included), while other prefer a bridge hammock (hammock with spreader bars at each end).

[Daniel J]

This is really dependent on what temperature/season you’re looking to use it in. I’ll assume a 30 degree setup, so you can use it throughout most 3-season camping conditions. Also, this setup is going to assume you can tie knots. If you’re gonna spend the money to save weight, then I think it’s worth learning a few knots. That’s my philosophy anyway.

• Shelter
  • 11ft netless hammock for $57.00 weighs 7.3oz from Dutchwaregear.com with whoopie-sling suspension
    • Suspension Dutchware’s Dyneema 2.0 Tree Huggers $35 for 1.1oz (combined)
    • Use a nearby stick for hang for free and no weight
    • Zing-it hammock ridgeline .5oz
  • Bugnet weighs 5.93oz – no longer listed on dutchware, but you can find them all over
  • Dyneema (Cuben) Fiber Hex Tarp from Hammock Gear for $235.00 weighs 5.14oz from HammockGear.com
    • Tarp ridgeline and tie-outs – Lawson Equipment 2mm Glowire – .75oz
• Sleep System
  • Top Quilt – Burrow 30 for $252.00 is 15.86oz
  • Underquilt – Phoenix 30 for $177 is 13.37oz
  • Sitting pad for feet 1.6oz for $14.95
• Total weight – 49.95oz or 3.12lbs for $821

 

[Hoosier T]

@dirtbaghiker how much do you weigh? The above recommendation is pretty solid, but I would not get a hammock through Dutch. The only reason for that is his selection of fabrics. Per your initial post, I would highly recommend a Dream Hammock and if you’re under 250lbs, the 1.2oz Robic is the perfect blend of capacity and durability. Earlier this year I switched from tent to hammock camping and unless I’m going somewhere with no trees, I will never go back to the ground. I will strongly suggest going with a single layer hammock and an underquilt. If you want to get started on the cheap, you will see that a lot of people use down throws from Costco to make UQs and they work great down to ~45-50*F. They only take a few minutes to modify for this purpose and the Costco throws are $40 for a two pack (no membership beeded). Granted you only need one so you will have an extra to use for whatever. If you don’t sew you’re welcome to order the throws, some grosgrain, and some shockcord and send them to me and I’ll fix you up with an UQ. No charge for labor, just cover materials and shipping. Feel free to PM me with any questions you have. Since moving to hammocks, I have sewn four different setups so I’m well versed in hammocks in general, as well as what materials are good for certain parameters.

[Rob P]

Dirtbag, I know your post was from June, so I don’t know if you’ve been able to get your hands on a Darien to test…just wanted to let you know that UGQ (Underground Quilts) has a rental program and one of the hammocks they have for rent is a Darien.  Might be a good way to try one out (or go to a local hammock hang if you can).

[Matthew / BPL]

“I would not get a hammock through Dutch. The only reason for that is his selection of fabrics.”

Wow do I disagree with this statement. I love Argon 1.6! It’s got just the right amount of stretch for me at ~160#

[Hoosier T]

Matt, I own a 1.6 and absolutely agree. To be clear, my comment wasn’t at all knocking Dutch’s fabrics, they’re fantastic, but he doesn’t offer anything between 1.0 and 1.6. Since Dirtbag made sure to point out that he’s UL, I was trying to steer him to the lightest fabric that supports most users and most men are too heavy for 1.0. Most will argue, including Dutch himself, that the 1.6 is not really a fabric for UL backpacking since it puts comfort over weight savings. You would save 3oz going with the 1.2 on an 11′ hammock and also see a bit more packability with the lighter material.

[dirtbag]

I went with Darien dream hammock. 1.6 robic material. Whoppie slings, 6 ft tree straps. MLD ASYM cuben tarp. Dutchwear zingers and black reflector line for ridgeline. I have my EE 950 down enigma quilts (50, 30 and 10 degree), and i started with EE revolt 950 down, short length, 40 degree underquilt and i will be getting the 10 degree in a few weeks.   I think that will cover it.. my 4 seasons here in NY. Im sure i can tinker with it, the more i use it i will figure it out, what will work better for me.

[dirtbag]

Im, 185 – 200 lbs, 5 ft 10. Im sure i could have went 1.2 instead of 1.6, but thats fine. My pack weight is low enough at this point that the 3 ounces difference is negligible for me. I love the hammock,  my quilts and the tarp. Everything works perfectly and it is so easy to set up and break down. Of course i will only pitch the tarp if needed (rain/snow/shade). Its comfortable too!  Hiking in NY, NJ and PA i know the hammock gives me easier site selection due to all the rocks on the ground. More time to hike,  less time finding a spot to sleep!

[obx hiker]

I’ve got a question. I’m 5′ 9″; whats the advantage of an 11 foot long hammock over a 10″ long hammock? Easier to get in a diagonal position? Can a shorter length work for a shorter person?

[dirtbag]

Hmmm i have no idea. Sorry.

[obx hiker]

But someone Knows!  Hey this is BPL . Cutting weight is our Raison D’ Etre.

[Hoosier T]

@dirtbaghiker I’m glad to hear you’re enjoying the new rig. I just switched to a hammock this year and will positively never look back.

I’ve got a question. I’m 5′ 9″; whats the advantage of an 11 foot long hammock over a 10″ long hammock? Easier to get in a diagonal position? Can a shorter length work for a shorter person?

Length is generally more important than width for comfort. You also save much more weight and bulk by reducing the width rather than the length. I would highly recommend sticking with an 11′ hammock at your height and going with a standard width (58-60″). I can confidently say that this will be the most suitable configuration for your height. To illustrate why longer is better. Consider the drawing below. With a gathered end hammock, there is a certain distance from each end that really isn’t usable as the material isn’t fully expanded past the gathered end. This means that the sweet spot is somewhere in between. You can see the X’s marking the dead area while the vertical line kind of shows the sweet spot where you want to lay on the diagonal. The added length to the overall hammock also adds length to this sweet spot and really gets you completely out of the dead zone which reduces shoulder squeeze, calf ridge, etc.

[obx hiker]

Thanks Hoosier for the comprehensive reply. Nice graphic! Since posting the question I have dragged out an old Grand Trunk ultralight I’d tricked out with whoopies, Dutch clips, light straps, amsteel end loops etc a few years back during an earlier stab at hanging (until I nearly froze one night in the Needles when the temp went down to 29 or 30 instead of the forecast lows of @ 40-42)  Of course I just went to the ground on that occasion (had a neoair pad) and everything was fine; but the experience brought home the idea behind (literally!) underquilts!

Anyway that hammock is 9.5 feet and I discovered fiddling with it the last couple of days that you do fight the ends to get everything stretched for a nice diagonal position. An extra 9 inches on each end (18″ overall) ought to smooth that out a lot.

Another question: Why can’t one just zip an entire sleeping bag around a hammock (at least until getting a boss underquilt made) if the bag has a double zipper? I tried that with an old 32 degree North Face semi-mummy and it seems like it worked fine……. though not tested in the cold. The zippers came within about 3 inches of closing on both ends and that could easily be stuffed with something. At least as a temporary”patch” I wouldn’t try it in temps below 40-45.

Anyone have experience using a sleeping bag that completely encloses the hammock, like a cocoon?

And in keeping with the thread: I’m thinking of ordering a netless hammock from Dutch in the 1.0 hexon with whoopies, clips, dyneema straps. equipped with an adjustable ridgeline and the knotty mod. Possibly a enlightened Equip 20 degree 66″ underquilt with 5 degrees extra stuffing. I already have a very warm over-stuffed Nunatak Arc Alpinist as a top-quilt. I’m going to start out re-purposing a z-packs cuben quilt with a Dutchware CRL until I can get a new hammock tarp also from z-packs. The whole rig should weigh @ 56.67 ounces. This actually “beats” the gear I took on a couple of recent 4 night hikes in the Winds by 5 ounces ( Z-packs hexamid/bathtub floor, short x-therm, and 35 ounce WM versalite, stakes -lines etc. No more worrying about finding a flat spot to pitch that isn’t the bottom of a depression! Now I can worry about finding the right 2 trees!

This brings up 3 more questions: 1 Any reason why the Nunatak arc alpinist won’t work for hammock hanging? 2. Has anyone ever tried using a light trash bag run over one end of a hammock with just a little hole for the whoopie and maybe tied up at the body/hammock end to the ridgeline to help keep the water from draining in under the tarp; as a little extra rain coverage? Not that the hammock will be out from under the tarp but as a little extra end protection from wind-drift etc.? 3. What am I missing?

 

[Hoosier T]

A lot of questions so I’ll do my best.

1. The cocoon works okay and here are similar systems on the market. The problem I see is that this will force you to lay straight and therefore like a banana. I can tell you I positively would not get a good night’s sleep.

2. Any topquilt or bag works in a hammock but I’ll say this. When I let the ground for a hammock, I owned a long/wide EE Enigma TQ. It was great on the ground, but terrible in the hammock. There was simply too much insulation in my way. As such, a hammock works better with something a tad smaller than you would otherwise use on the ground.

3. I see no issue but what I do is use a generous double sided stuff sack for my hammock. After setting everything up, I just leave on side closed so it stays at the end of the hammock and slide the remainder of the sack down on to the hammock end. I use a 12′ tarp though so I’ve never had an issue with water and I’ve hung in some rough weather. Even had a cigar in my hammock in a pretty terrible storm.

I don’t think you’re missing anything…other than an underquilt. :) you should check out the Hammock Gear Econ quilts. They are amazing for the price, or so I’ve read. I make all my gear so I don’t have any first hand experience.

[obx hiker]

Thanks Hoosier, that was fast and thorough. You’re right about needing an underquilt. That neoair did not cut the mustard! Not sure if an xtherm would either and pads are awkward in hammocks.

The cuben tarp is a make-shift patch until I get a dedicated hammock tarp.

When I was hanging out the past couple of days I had birds carrying on all around like I was invisible. Other times I’ve been hanging there were always other guys around so I hadn’t noticed how wildlife seems to kind of ignore hammocks. I see that as a real potential positive. It seems like almost everyone agrees about the increased sleeping comfort. I’m pleased I won’t have to sweat getting swamped in really wet weather. (nearly disastrous experience with that one time wayyyy up the Middle Cascade River below Koolaid Lake).  Back when I tricked out the Grand Trunk hammocks were heavier and there hadn’t been so many improvements in underquilts. A pretty good system coming in at 55-60 ounces seems like a really interesting alternative to being on the ground. Now if I can only get the rest of the peanut butter out of that wide-mouth jar  ;)

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