Enchantments list

[Paul S.]

Hi All,

I'm headed out to the Enchantments late June with a full group. We expect snow in the uppers, hence the spikes/gaiters/etc. I'm close to the "Lightweight" category, just looking for any pointers or suggestions to cut some weight. I have $100 credit to spend at Backcountry for upgrades.

I don't go out for more than 3-4 nights usually so it's more an attempt to enjoy a light pack, not necessarily needed for such sort trips.

Cheers

http://lighterpack.com/r/uhxxo

[Paul S.]

Also I'm torn between using my WP Mids or using hydroskins/liners and maybe bags in camp. I haven't tried hydroskins/liners before but I really would rather leave my boots at home.

[Ian]

Seems like a good enough list, and if your total pack weight is under 20lbs (I assume someone else is carrying the shelter since it's noted as "shared") then who cares, but it looks like you have unnecessary duplicates like the Sawyer Squeeze and Steripen, plus a metric butt load of knives and sharpeners. It's warm enough that a gatorade/aquafina bottle would be fine vs a Nalgene, etc.

I suspect you could pare it down a pound or two but it really depends and what your priorities are and how committed you are to going UL. Are you looking to drop pack weight here or just making sure you're not missing any critical items?

[Paul S.]

Hi Ian,

Yes, the tent is shared so no weight for me. I removed all the items that had 0 quantities to prove that confusion. I'll only carry the SAK mini and SteriPen. I'm carrying the Gatorade bottle for filtering, platys are for booze depending how much we decide to carry.

Goal is to look for obvious savings and/or upgrades. Also any guidance on dealing with snow (boots or neoprene 0.5 mm).

[Jeff Jeff]

I use trail runners up there. They dry fast. Bring medium weight wool socks. There is no way you will need microspikes. Don't sweat the weight. It's such a small area that going light won't matter much.

[Link .]

Paul, I did the Enchantments a couple of years ago in July and my pack was a little over 11lbs including food and fuel for 3 nights(I carried all my own gear and did not share any). I am not saying you should buy a bunch of new lighter stuff but maybe someday you might think about it and gradually over time you will get lighter.You don't really need that many water containers and do you really need to drink that much alcohol to enjoy yourself camping,you will be hiking and camping next to water the entire trip so you will only need to go a couple feet to get water at any given time I carried 1 smart water bottle and never needed more my friend I hiked with carried 1 small plastic bottle of whiskey and 1 water bottle.I wore lightweight trail runners that dried quickly and would do the same again. I haven't checked the weather or snow levels for this year so I can't tell you about what to expect but I did not need microspikes on my trip and just used short light quick drying gaiters that weigh about an ounce.That is an awful lot of leukotape(3oz),my backpack weighs half the weight of your 50oz pack and my sleeping quilt weighs 18oz and the temp. rating is 30 degrees, I am assuming you are carrying a synthetic double bag(that you are sharing?) at that weight(76oz?)you can get a lot lighter and compact with down double bag or quilt someday if you want to go lighter ,but really it isn't bad if you are comfortable and don't want to spend a lot of money on new pack and bag. Out of curiosity what shelter is you partner going to be carrying for you to use?

General info for you to look at
Mike Clelland(NOLs instructor and author, his books are very good),he has some great free videos on lightening up be sure to watch(his clothing system,the entire contents of his pack,water treatment and part 1 and 2 on the dinky stuff for ideas),this is an article he wrote The fastest way to backpack weight loss ,this is pmags Lightweight Backpacking 101 and The Frugal Backpacker – The $300 Gear Challenge .These are some other articles and videos for you to check out

Backpacking for Cheap: Gear for the Gearless

Backpacking Checklist (Gear List): 3-Season, 3-Day

Lightweight Backpacking 101: An Introductory Manual for Lightening Your Load Today (1st Edition – August 2001)

Cheap Ultralight Gear List

Oregon Field Guide: Ultralight Hiking

Lightweight Testimony: Lighter, Farther, Faster
Jamie Shortt talks about his progression and shows his gear list for each stage, Lightweight Testimony: My Journey into Lightweight Backpacking
CleverHiker Light weight Basics
CleverHiker Trail Skills

Andrew Skurka has a very good website with trips and gear lists for you to check out, here is a talk he gave at google
Ultimate Hiking Gear & Skills Clinic
His book is worth checking out also
The Ultimate Hiker’s Gear Guide: Tools & Techniques to Hit the Trail
You can get little repackaging containers(like the ones you see in Mike Clelland uses in his videos) many places including your local stores and pharmacy but here are some examples
USPLASTICS
USPLASTICS
Ultralight Designs
GossamerGear
MountainLaurelDesigns
You could make toothpaste dots like Mike C. shows or there are Archtek Toothpaste Tablets so only bring exactly what you need in a snack size bag for any given trip instead of a whole tube and THESE are good for little thing like pills, toothpaste tablets ect. so you are not packing a whole bottle(you can also get them very cheap at most pharmacies) .

[Paul S.]

Jeff,

My only worry about Microspikes being needed is for the rebar steps going down to Vivienne, if we don't just go back down through Aasgard. I'm definitely going with my trail runners and heavier wool socks, thanks for that suggestion. I'll bring bread bags or similar to keep my sleep socks dry around camp. Are the neoprene socks redundant/unnecessary with this setup?

Link,

Yes, the bag is a double BA bag. One day I'd like to upgrade the pads + bag with Exped MWs and the EE Accomplice. Synth isn't a requirement but easy cleaning is nice when the dogs are able to come along. My wife could be a little happier with a warmer bag though.

Tent is a BA Fairview 3P @ 5 lbs + 6 Ti stakes. We have a 3P since we need the space when we go with the two dogs (40 and 60 lbs).

Gaiters: Should I even bother? My shoes are super meshy so there's no stopping snow from going through. Snow levels are very low for this time of year and the recent heat is helping I'm sure.

Alcohol: Well said, not needed to enjoy backpacking! The group I'm going with love wine but I'm considering leaving it all behind for this trip.

Water treatment: I like the convenience of the hydration packs but I don't see how I can effectively use it filtering, so I'm thinking of using the Gatorade + SteriPen or a cut-out platy. I suppose I could just use a single liter bottle instead but my pack has no easy way to access a bottle without removing it every time I need to drink.

Lots of questions, great feedback, really appreciate it! I'm doing my best to not pack my fears, I know I can save a ton of weight but upgrading everything but it won't stop me from learning how to live without unnecessary items.

[Link .]

A pair of light weight DIRTY GIRL GAITERS are great when on Aasgard Pass with all the loose gravel and scree, it kept it out of my shoes, I saw many people having to stop and dump rocks out of their shoes over and over again, I had several comment on wishing they had some small gaiters on. I thought the Fairview was 5 1/2 – 6lbs but either way there are definitely lighter 3 person tents(are you bringing the dogs with you?) if that is what you need but again that is if and when you are interested and want to spend the money to lighten your load, if you really like the tent and don't want to change it then don't( I assume a tarp is out of the question they can be inexpensive and very light, I used one and so did the friend I went with and they were great,but I know some people are uncomfortable without a tent). HERE is a cheap easy way to carry water and make it easily accessible.Be sure to look at some or all of my links if you have not seen them before for more tips.Your bag is going to be as you know a lot heavier for the warmth than a down bag and synthetic will not last as long or compress as well either, here are two examples(I realize they are not cheap but they are well worth the money and will last probably a lifetime)A regular double 30 degree bag from ENLIGHTENED EQUIPMENT will weigh 27.68oz,26.62oz or 25.67oz depending on some of your choices(these are made to order and beautiful). The ZPACK 900 Fill Power Down Twin Size Quilts will weigh between 21.8zo and 27.1oz depending on what you want and these are also made to order and very nice.You could get a Enlightened Equipment bag at 27.68oz for $350, 50 ounces lighter than your bag and yours retails for $239, I understand you may have not paid retail the difference in weight compactness and years of use far outweigh the Big agnes and you could easily resell the Enlightened Equipment bag on Gear swap for close to what you payed but not many if any people are going to want the Big Agnes bag for close to what you payed.

[Dale Wambaugh]

You mentioned the large tent for your dogs—- I dont think dogs are allowed in the Enchantments basin.

[Paul S.]

Yes, dogs are not coming with us, but our tent is 3P in order to fit them on trip that they are allowed to come along. :)

My other tent option is the MH Twin Arch 2P, but it's pretty heavy at 76 oz / 4.75 lbs, so I'm getting a 3P dome for 4 oz more (the Fairview 3P is 5 lbs. trail weight, Ti stakes only add 1.7 oz vs. the 6 oz of the stock stakes). Another option is I could do the "fast pack" style with my 2P which I believe gets me down to 40 oz / 2.5 lbs. but then I lose bug protection and I don't think the wife will allow it.

Regarding Dirty Girl gaiters, I'd rather not deal with velcro. Will they stay in place well enough if I just use the cord? I also read that they wear out very quickly, not a big deal since they're so cheap, but would rather have something that lasts.

[Link .]

I have had no problems with my gaiters and prefer velcro to straps that wear out but everyone is different, if you prefer a strap you could try MONTBELL STRETCH SHORT SPATS at 2.3oz or RAB SCREE GAITER 2.2oz, there are many lightweight choices with a strap.I assume you don't have the money to buy a 2 person tent? You could keep an eye on gear Swap in the future, you can get a fully enclosed 2(or even 3 person) tent for lighter than your fast pack non enclosed tent.

[Paul S.]

I'll check out those RAB Scree, look nice.

I recently bought the BA Fairview a few months back on outlet for $200, which seemed to be the best deal I could get for a tent that big. I really wanted a Cloudburst 3 but at double the cost it was out of budget. Too late to return it with REI's new 30 day Outlet limitation.

[michael levi]

Your bag and pad are insanely heavy, they are the items that really stand out and could lose a few pounds easily.

[Bob Moulder]

I've never hiked there so I must ask, How cold does it get in late June?

Probably could get by wearing all clothing layers and the down parka, no?

I think I'd dump that 16oz vest in a heartbeat.

[Link .]

Yes,I would dump the vest also I used a Montbell UL (I get cold easily) and was fine. Hopefully he will check out Mike Clelland's videos and the bag alternatives.

[Paul S.]

I'm definitely saving up for a new bag and pad. Would be impossible to get a new quilt before the trip anyways, 2 weeks away.

I hiked enchantments last September and was cold at night, my bag wasn't sufficient (45 F is the only single bag I have since it was just me), so I am weary of being too cold. However I camped last month and it got down to the high 30s / low 40s at night and I didn't ever need the vest… Would be an easy weight savings, especially since it's very heavy for a down vest.

Thanks!

[Bob Moulder]

Paul, keep in mind that there is absolutely nothing wrong (and, in fact, it is highly recommended!) with sleeping in ALL the clothing you have if you need it to stay warm.

I use a +20°F quilt for 0°F temps by employing this very strategy… wearing my down parka and down pants for sleeping.

Of course this requires some planning. I'm 5"9" and medium build, but I got the EE Enigma quilt in long/wide dimensions with this technique in mind. My total sleep system (quilt, air mat, CCF pad and pillow) weigh 2.82 lbs and keep me completely comfortable in such cold temps.

[Paul S.]

I totally understand, last September I was wearing my wool baselayers, my 80g Alpha jacket, and my Uniqlo over my legs, but only with a hot nalgene did I stay warm enough to be comfortable. But I blame this on the BA Mountain Cross rated for "45 degrees" which I'm guessing really means "60 recommended." Thankfully the BA Double bag seems more accurately rated at 30 and I can share body heat. My wife does run cold, but she'll be bringing a SD Super Stratus down parka and a Stoic Fleece (about 200 weight), so I hope she'll stay warm enough. Might need the naglene for her. I have a harder time convincing her to pack light, since she feels like we're at the "light enough I can throw in extras" point.

[Link .]

Remember people pack their fears and end up carrying more than they need.Maybe you should try spending some time sleeping outside to see what will work for both of you before you go. Again I hope you will watch(with your wife) some of the videos and read some of the articles above together to become more comfortable with going light weight, you don't have to do it all at once.

[Bob Moulder]

"light enough I can throw in extras" point.

LOL, I know exactly what you mean. :^)

I have a [friend/relative/associate/colleague] (camouflage for the innocent) who did this, saying that every item he had was super-lightweight. I reminded him that 75lbs of lightweight gear still weighs 75lbs. But my own pack (winter) back in those days weighed in at about 50lbs — hardly svelte by today's standards.

[Paul S.]

Yeah, I know what you mean! She wants to HIKE in her trail runners (since they are comfy) and PACK her WP Mids for around camp. :( But in fairness she is new to trail runners so she's not confident they will hold up.

I decided to go with the RAB scree gaiters and drop all the extra water containers. I'm thinking of keeping the water bladder (convenience) and using the Jetboil to treat water with the pen. Anyone ever try treating water in their bladders with a SteriPen or am I just crazy?

I'm leaving the neoprene socks in favor of thicker medium hikers, might bring a light pair I can use to layer or hike alone in if it's too warm for thicker socks, and as mentioned, bring bags for camp.

[Paul S.]

"Yes,I would dump the vest also I used a Montbell UL (I get cold easily) and was fine. Hopefully he will check out Mike Clelland's videos and the bag alternatives."

Link, I've been going through all the links and videos, one little bit at a time. Good idea about viewing them with the wife!

[Link .]

There are a number of posts discussing water containers and steripens, but here is an older one what sort of water containers do you use with a steripen?

[Paul S.]

Yes, that's where I got the idea to use my Jetboil pot, but I've never heard anyone using a hydration pack, maybe because most think hydration packs are too heavy to bother with anyways? The 2 liter pack would require two cycles of UV, might work if I swish it around sufficiently, maybe I'll try it at home and report back.

[Paul S.]

While the pen could work in my 2L Camelbak it is very awkward without a solid base. I'll take Roger's method of my stove.

I pared my pack list down to just under 15! Didn't think it was possible. Also weighed my pack again and it's "only" 48 ounces.

Thanks everyone!

[Author]

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