Gear List: Goal of 10lb Base Weight

[Eric Hine]

Hi all,

Goal of this thread is to explain my current state of backpacking and hopefully get some help in getting my base weight to 10lbs or less.

Background:

I'm a 25 year old 6'1 205lb athletic build guy from Up-State New York, and have been into backpacking for roughly 2 years. I generally wear size large in shirts and 34 in pants. Most of my hiking is done as a 3-Season Hiker in Spring, Summer and Fall. In the Winter I am an active Snowboarder, so work consumes my week-days and Snowboarding consumes my weekends at the local Ski Resort. I often backpack with my girlfriend, but enjoy solo trips as well. I have a Software Development job that keeps me very busy most of the year, so my weekend get-aways and week long vacations are few and far between. So, I try to make the best out of the time I get, and want to make it more comfortable, enjoyable and fun. I aim to get away from people, and, most importantly, my computer.

I have a Running background (Cross Country and Track all throughout High School and College), so I enjoy and can easily hike 15-20+ miles daily in most "local" terrain. That being said, most of my hiking to date has been done on the East Coast, so I am not sure my capabilities at higher elevations. I primarily hike the CatSkills, Green Mountains, White Mountains, Adirondacks and the local Finger Lakes areas. However, I also plan one to two "big trips" a year to a new National Park I've never been to for a 3-5 day backpacking trip (trying to "collect" National Parks). I'm not currently in the position to be doing any extensive thru-hiking. Like many on this forum, I hike because I enjoy doing high mileage days, but also care about the views.

For gear, I've just recently (this Winter) been trying to greatly lighten my load (was pushing 25lb base weight), and have, after spending some money, obtained some gear that I've used in the past and gear that I've read good things about. I'm not a gram counter, but I am trying my best to get to a comfortable 10lb base weight, and starting to run out of ideas of where to drop some oz's and lb's, other than a few obvious selections. A couple caveats include Shelter Selection: 1. I don't feel comfortable in Tarp Tents or Hammocks, 2. I also don't feel comfortable in Tents that use Trekking Poles as Support but I could be talked into it, Clothing: 1. I burn quickly and a lot, 2. Ticks are the enemy, 3. I always wear long shirts and pants when hiking and have tried to choose the best option for me in that category. Other than that, I am very open to suggestions in all areas. At the moment, money is not really a factor, so truly open to all ideas and criticism.

Upcoming Summer Trips:

3 Night, 4 Day Backpacking Trip in the Adirondack High Peaks in July.
4 Night, 5 Day Backpacking Trip to Grand Canyon National Park in October.
3 Night, 4 Day 100 mile local stretch of the Finger Lakes Trail in August.
Weekend trips to Catskills, White Mountains, Green Mountains, Adirondacks and possibly Shenandoah NP scattered from May-November.

I'm also trying to get into Bikepacking, Kayaking (very interested in a Kayak Backpacking Trip in the Everglades next Summer), Packrafting and Tenkara Fishing. So if any additional points of information on that, would be interested in hearing.

The following is a link to my gear list. All gear has been measured, to the best of my ability, using my own scale, not website/manufacturer claims. You'll see I'm at about 11.4lbs now, but that does omit some items that will add into the weight.

Notable Omits:

Food – Usually cook breakfast and dinner, while lunch is snacks, jerky, etc. Aim for 2500-3000cals a day when hiking.

Water – Fill up hydration bladder only, unless in very hot conditions with sparse water.

Bear Canister – WildIdeas "The Scout" Bearikade (28oz), if Bear Canister is required. Own it, not rented.

GPS – Haven't had the need for one yet, but considering looking into Garmin's and also a SPOT, but also wouldn't hazard looking into iPhone Apps for GPS. This would bring weight up 10-14oz or so.

Camp/Night Clothing – Have been sleeping in hiking clothes, but really don't like it. Thinking about something lightweight from Arc'teryx for night shirt and some cheap, light shorts.

Please feel free to ask any questions and tell me if something doesn't make any sense. I can take criticism :)

[Ken Thompson]

You have two down jackets listed. Do you really take both?
Edit: my bad, tiny screen.

[Eric Hine]

One's down, other is wind shirt.

http://www.mountainhardwear.com/mens-ghost-whisperer-down-jacket-1560901.html?cgid=mens-jackets-insulated&dwvar_1560901_variationColor=443#start=0

vs.

http://www.mountainhardwear.com/mens-ghost-whisperer-hooded-jacket-OM5271.html

[Bob Gross]

One idea to consider:

Trim out some of the excess grams, and you may discover that you have lightened up by ounces. Trim out some of the excess ounces, and you may discover that you have lightened up by pounds.

You say that you don't feel comfortable with this or that. Is that physical discomfort, or is it philosophical discomfort? Would you feel better to carry along a king size bed?

–B.G.–

[Eric Hine]

"You say that you don't feel comfortable with this or that. Is that physical discomfort, or is it philosophical discomfort?"

Philosophical. Just something about not being enclosed that gets to me. I'm sure I could get over it if I really wanted to. A King Size Bed might be nice :)

[Bob Gross]

Eric, a suggestion:

While you are at home, maybe you have a porch, patio, or back yard.

Practice sleeping outside. Start with whatever minimum shelter you think that you deserve, and then gradually reduce it, maybe one piece at a time. If the weather is nice, maybe try sleeping with nothing but a warm jacket, or whatever you think that you can get away with.

Little by little, you may get over your fears.

–B.G.–

[Eric Hine]

"Little by little, you may get over your fears."

Thanks, and I know you're definitely right. Gotta start sometime!

[Monte Masterson]

Why the SOL emergency blanket? You already have a shelter and sleeping bag. There's 2.6 oz. you could save.

You can knock off 2 oz by repackaging a smaller amount of the Aqua Mira into 10 ml dropper bottles (MLD sells them) You could have enough for a week for less than 1 oz total.

You don't really need the stormproof match kit. Just bring another mini bic along and double bag it in two very small zip locks. That will save 1 oz.

You could maybe find a lighter .6L cup. Is the 3.6 oz with a lid?

I'd personally scrap the Mophie and Go Pro, but I can understand why someone would want to bring them along.

A ZPacks Long/Wide 30 degree bag would save you quite a bit of weight, mainly through the lighter shell material. Weighs over 11 oz less than the Hydrogen.
A 40 degree quilt may not be warm enough even for Summer in the Northern latitudes you're describing, or at elevation.
Quilts aren't for everyone. I like them for Summer, but still prefer a sleeping bag for anything under 45 degrees. Many here at BPL would disagree and I can totally respect that.

I like your shelter. There's something to be said for stopping to camp and just pulling out the tent poles…and then PRESTO, you have a semi-free standing double wall shelter with plenty of space. I use a Solo Hexamid and cuben tarps, but if I was going with a pole tent it would definitely be the BA UL2 Platinum.

[Eric Hine]

Thanks for the comments Monte, appreciate it.

The emergency blanket I've definitely considered getting rid of. Been carrying it for 2 years and never thought of using it. Almost forgot it was there, but that's not a good reason to keep it around.

I also agree with the comments about the stormproof match kit. The main reason I carry along those matches is because I use Esbit, and enjoying using Esbit, but sometimes it's difficult to get the tabs to light with a Mini Bic. The kit is probably excessive, though. Could get away with a few matches wrapped in foil or even just thrown in a zip loc.

Yes, the pot at 3.6oz does include a lid.

Can't tell you how many times I've gone back and forth between Zpacks Bag and EE Quilt, and also 30* vs 40*. I'll still have to debate with myself on that one :)

The BA UL2 Platinum is a great shelter. It seems to get mixed reviews on different websites, but from experience, I love it.

[Aaron Sorensen]

Eric,

I've been making my own quilts for over 10 years now.
I used to use graphs to go by temp range.
Since I have been out enough, I know what I need for quilt fill to keep me warm.

Seems at high altitude, my comfort for 30 degrees is just a tiny bit less than that of comparable light weight EE/ Zpack 20* quilts/ bags.
So I just add 10* to any rating above 0* and it seems pretty spot on (for me anyway).

[Nick Gatel]

In the overall picture of things, going from 11.5 to 10 lbs isn't a lot of weight, given that your legs are already carrying a 200 lb body. However, losing that 1.5 lbs (or more) is going to require a mental shift and different way of operating.

Changing one item, your shelter, would get you under 10lbs. I prefer tarps and don't understand the need for inners unless (maybe) one hikes in Minnesota or Alaska. Also, why do you need a big ground sheet with a tent?

Quilts are lighter. I usually use a zPacks 20F or a EE down 30F made from Cuben shell. Both under 20oz.

I'm okay with "heavier" packs, which are better for carrying lots of water in places like the Grand Canyon.

Do you need a pack liner and a pack cover?

I don't care for pack towels. A bandanna has more uses and is usually lighter.

A lot of weight in your hydration system. I have been backpacking for a long time and never saw the need for a filter. When I need to carry a lot of water a couple 64 ounce Gatorade bottles and CLO2 tablets work just fine. You have backups for the backup.

The pre-packaged FAK is heavy. Open it up and take every out and keep the bandaids, antiseptic, and the Advil equivalent. Then put what you kept in a Ziploc. Now get a few pieces Lukotape (sp) and place them on a piece of non-sticky paper.

I've never needed a signal mirror.

I've never needed an emergency blanket.

A thermometer is useless IMO. It won't help keep you warm, safe and dry.

Matches have already been discussed.

If I bring a camera, it is a point and shoot with maybe a spare battery. No power packs, no solar panels, no phone, no SPOT, no PLB, no GPS. They all weigh something.

Where's your map and compass?

A Swiss Army Knife Classic or razor blade can replace that multi-tool. Put in your pack and add it to your base weight. You will rarely need it.

I have never used body glide or anything like it. I have a post about this in my blog.

All of this requires a "paradigm" shift in thinking, which is often a heavier burden than 1.5 lbs of pack weight.

Along with a huge repository of knowledge here on BPL, you might want to read Andrew Skurka's Ultimate Hiker. I have pontificated on many of these subjects in my blog, which can be found in the link in my profile. That would keep you busy for quite a while. Be forewarned that I am old, opinionated, crusty, and resistant to change.

[Link .]

General info for you to look at if you haven't already
Mike Clelland(NOLs instructor and author, his books are very good),he has some great free videos on lightening up be sure to watch(his clothing system,the entire contents of his pack,water treatment and part 1 and 2 on the dinky stuff for ideas),this is an article he wrote The fastest way to backpack weight loss ,this is pmags Lightweight Backpacking 101 and The Frugal Backpacker – The $300 Gear Challenge .These are some other articles and videos for you to check out

Backpacking for Cheap: Gear for the Gearless

Backpacking Checklist (Gear List): 3-Season, 3-Day

Lightweight Backpacking 101: An Introductory Manual for Lightening Your Load Today (1st Edition – August 2001)

Cheap Ultralight Gear List

Oregon Field Guide: Ultralight Hiking

Lightweight Testimony: Lighter, Farther, Faster
Jamie Shortt talks about his progression and shows his gear list for each stage, Lightweight Testimony: My Journey into Lightweight Backpacking
CleverHiker Light weight Basics
CleverHiker Trail Skills

Andrew Skurka has a very good website with trips and gear lists for you to check out, here is a talk he gave at google
Ultimate Hiking Gear & Skills Clinic
His book is worth checking out also
The Ultimate Hiker’s Gear Guide: Tools & Techniques to Hit the Trail
You can get little repackaging containers(like the ones you see in Mike Clelland uses in his videos) many places including your local stores and pharmacy but here are some examples
USPLASTICS
USPLASTICS
Ultralight Designs
GossamerGear
MountainLaurelDesigns
You could make toothpaste dots like Mike C. shows or there are Archtek Toothpaste Tablets so only bring exactly what you need in a snack size bag for any given trip instead of a whole tube and THESE are good for little thing like pills, toothpaste tablets ect. so you are not packing a whole bottle(you can also get them very cheap at most pharmacies) .

[Dale Wambaugh]

Shelters and sleeping pads are common areas of divergence from the more Spartan gear lists. It's all compromise and you either live with the weight of a double wall shelter (for example), or learn to live with the cons of a lighter option. You have certainly done the homework and your gear list is ready for micro-tweaking, like whether you want to carry the extra space blanket or what kind of backup water treatment, etc.

I was talking with a guy about UL hiking and he asked what my base weight was and I answered "whatever I want it to be." IMHO, that is the core principle to UL hiking and the break with traditional hiking is the idea that you "must" have this or that sort of gear. There is also a sort of reverse hegemony with UL folk that says you "must" sleep under a Cuben trap on a 1/8" CCF pad, carry a single edge razor blade instead of a knife, cut the handle off your toothbrush and use a first aid kit comprised of three band-aids. There's nothing wrong with an honest 11.4oz base weight, as long as you know and understand the compromises.

Ten pounds is every bit an arbitrary base weight as five pounds. If and when you are ready to go lighter, you will make the compromises in budget, durability, insect protection, warmth, waterproofing and all the rest. Or you can happily go with what you have. It's your choice. I would just plan to whittle away at it as you gear wears or you find deals, as with you plan to get a lighter quilt in the future.

[Ken Thompson]

Excellent reply Dale

[Eric Hine]

Thanks for the comments from everyone, they have some great information, suggestions and mind-sets.

@Dale – I could not agree more. I am quite happy with what I have, but I am always looking to improve and switch things up. Keeps things interesting :)

[Dave P]

Looks like most of it is basically conquering your fears and building skills.

Tent – Can't really say much here. You obviously know how to go lighter, it's either to use a tarp, or simple tents. So, the main thing is to being comfortable in those setups.

Sleeping bag – Like others have said, quilt.

Sleeping pad – Not much to say. Closed foam might get you down to about 6 oz if you do torso-length.

Backpack – There are a few lighter packs out there, but not really sure what's your taste here. Not really a big deal to switch to a lighter pack. I do a lot of bushwhacking, so heavier packs are fine here.

Pack cover – They get shredded. Not a worthwhile investment.

Towel – Replace with bandanna. More multipurpose.

Water treatment – Repackage the AquaMira into smaller bottles.

Water filter – Redundant.

Bladder – I would actually adopt a 1L SoftBottle or something like that as a bladder instead. Keep another 1L for treating water. No need for the Evernew if you have two 1L soft bottles.

Emergency blanket – Why? I never known anyone to use one, even in a survival situation. If it's when you get lost or lose your stuff, well if it's in your backpack– it's gone. No point in carrying survival items that are not on your person.

Signal mirror – See above. You're better off building a fire anyway or using a whistle blast. You will be surprised how many people don't keep an eye open for a signal mirror. The only ones I know who respond to siginal mirrors are marine SAR teams and kayakers.

Whistle – Probably the only useful survival item on this list.

Flashlight – There's a few by Zebralight, Olight and Fenix that are lighter.

Trowel – It's pretty easy to dig a cathole with a pole-tip. :)

Mophie Powerstation Portable Power Device – Are you required to be connected to the world 24/7? Just use a USB cord instead. I understand with your career it might be wise to bring it.

Thermometer – The one you picked have been criticized for being inaccurate. So, I am not really sure why anyone should carry it. Novelty?

Very nice list, and very detailed. 11 lbs is quite an accomplishment for a lot of people.

[Eric Hine]

Thanks for the informative comments, Dave! I certainly agree with many of your suggestions. I believe the survival section will be getting a modification very soon, will probably drop the survival blanket immediately. I wasn't actually aware of the lighter flashlight options, so will definitely look into that as well.

Edit: Officially dropped the Survival Blanket and made some modifications to hydration system. :)

[Dave P]

No problem. I have lost my stuff before (pretty easy to do in the muskeg), and I know that if you lose your rucksack, you're pretty much SOL. So, I stopped carrying any survival-related items in my backpack. If anything, I carry a firesteel and whistle around my neck on a lanyard.

Compasses sometimes come with a mirror and they are only 1.4 oz. You could use that as a signal mirror. The compass should stay on your person at all time anyway in case you got separated from your pack.

Honestly, I think most of the so-called survival equipment should be marketed toward people with horses, boats, snowmobiles and cars because the practicality is just not there.

[David Chenault]

Looks like a pretty good list to me. You could go under 10 lbs easy by just leaving some stuff at home (pack cover, various emergency stuff, water filter).

Your pack and sleeping bag are poor performers for their weight, especially given your premium clothing system. The bag upgrade you've already identified; something like a GG Gorilla or ULA Ohm would be a bit lighter than the Crown and carry weight better.

Your October Grand Canyon trip would be a good opportunity to try tarping.

[Eric Hine]

Appreciate the comments, David. Thanks!

I agree with you on the pack and the sleeping bag. Those are still remnants of my "old" setup and have yet to look into improving on those. The bags you suggested would definitely fit the bill, I've also been looking into the MLD Exodus, but have not pulled the trigger on anything. As for the sleeping bag, I'm thinking I want to go the quilt route, as many here have suggested already.

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