After a long day on the trail – “Got Milk”?

[Greg Mihalik]

Some interesting reading, and some science.

[Terry Sparks]

Thanks for sharing Greg, that is a good read and I found it interesting that a school such as Cornell would fund a project to enhance athletes. I guess it's another sign of the times and the large amounts of money funding college sports these days. What Cornell and the other schools mentioned in the article are really just enhancing what has been known for a few years. The U.S, Olympic Swimming Team for one started using low fat chocolate milk as a recovery drink prior to and during the 2004 games in Athens.
I have always wondered about the upload of proteins for long distance hikers, being we don't really have a finite "workout". As we know, the sports nutritionist tell us to have a recovery drink within 30 – 45 minutes of your workout for best results. The problem I see with hikers is, our "workout" is 12-14+ hours and, instead of short term intense training, we are doing long hours of much less intensity. I would be very interested in reading research on athletes other than Pro Bicyclist, which kinda translates to what we do, but not entirely.
I do take a recovery drink every day on the trail and being that I'm pushing 60 years of age, I'm always looking at what I can do to shorten that time before I get up and start walking the next morning.

[Valerie E]

Great — so now chocolate milk is a health food (and scientifically approved). And coffee (yum!) is the new health food, too.

GAWD, I can't WAIT until science examines Snickers bars, and proclaims them to be better for recovery than "power-type" bars… ;^)

[Ken Thompson]

Somebody else found the same thing out years ago. Like posted above. Yay chocolate milk! Yay, science! Glad someone is backing it up.

[BlackHatGuy]

Interesting article, thanks. I wonder if there's any difference in dark chocolate milk and regular chocolate milk (i usually drink dark chocolate milk).

[Ken Thompson]

Since dark chocolate does not include milk, but is higher in the antioxidants found in the cacao I would guess even better for you. What dark chocolate milk are you drinking? It's hard to find.

[Anonymous]

The article supports an approach to recovery that has been around a while. About 10 years ago, I was using a product called Ultragen for recovery. It contained 20 grams of whey protein, 60 grams of glucose, and various micronutrients. It worked very well for me, but I was a little uneasy with that much glucose at one time. So, I switched to a mixture of 1.5 oz maltodextrin, .5 oz whey protein, and 1 oz of Nido. It gives me 355 calories, 52 grams of carbohydrate, 20 grams of high quality protein from milk/milk derivative, and 7.5 grams of fat from the Nido. It has worked as well as the Ultragen, without triggering the insulin response, and is much cheaper. Both are based on the same physiology principles as chocolate milk, and contain similar proportions of carb and protein. There are many roads that lead to Rome, and chocolate milk is but one of them. Lots of folks up here swear by chocolate milk, BTW.

[Terry Sparks]

Tom,
I have done a bit of research on maltodextrin and personally, I pretty much stay away from the stuff as best I can. The problems I have with it is, maltodextrin has a glycemic score of 130 (sugar is 65) so, even though it's considered a carbohydrate, your body treats it as a double potency sugar, spiking your blood glucose levels and in turn causing a spike in insulin production. Another argument against using it as a recovery drink is, other than the high calorie content, it doesn't add any nutritional value to your body. Maltodextrin is void of vitamins and it's void of any minerals, of which muscles need to recover. And one last thing, your body stores any unused maltodextrin as fat so, that may or may not be a good thing, depending on your next hike or workout.

[BlackHatGuy]

"What dark chocolate milk are you drinking? It's hard to find."

Cocoa Metro Belgian chocolate milk. Wonderful stuff, like drinking a dark chocolate candy bar. I microwave it and drink it as hot cocoa. Delish. I get it at my local organic grocery. http://www.cocoametro.com

[Greg Mihalik]

In general –

1) During exercise the insulin response is blunted, so the gylcemic index doesn't matter very much.

2) The body will store as fat Any "excess" calories (as mentioned in the article). During extended exercise "excess" calories won't leave the stomach. Post exercise, meals of around 400 to 500 calories will go to replenishment versus storage, regardless of the source, until you are "topped off". If you manage to store some fat you will probably burn it off "tomorrow".

3) By itself maltodextrin will not support life over the long term. But if the balance of your meals are closer to "real food", you will get sufficient macro and micro nutrients to get you through a 3000 mile hike.

[Terry Sparks]

You are correct in saying the insulin response to sugar is blunted (somewhat) during exercise but, we are talking about the use of maltodextrin as a recovery drink after exercise, not during. To me I would much rather have foods that will replenish my body and allow for better recovery while I'm sleeping and maltodextrin doesn't have the ability to do this.
Use it if you like, that's your choice, I don't see any advantage of using it and I don't, and thats my choice.

[Greg Mihalik]

Terry-
"… we are talking about the use of maltodextrin as a recovery drink after exercise, not during."

Agreed. But as a recovery drink immediately after hard exercise, I think the insulin response is still suppressed. How long out? Don't know. But I've never gotten "wired" from malto.

After a 15+ hour day, it's easier for me to immediately knock back 400 calories out of a bottle while cleaning up and settling in, and then follow that with another 400 calories of semi-real food. And then around 2am another 250 calories of semi-real food.

It's a balancing act.

[Tim Zen]

I read this too. Chocolate whey protein power & nido & ground up freeze dried blue berries is my go to breakfast. I feel vindicated. I may think about throwing in a ground up No-Doz next time and skip the coffee.

[Tim Skidmore]

I usually bring some chocolate milk with me, either a power or a bottle that I'll use later as a water bottle/cup.

You guys make it sound more like a chemistry experiment than a quick drink lol

[Ken Thompson]

"I may think about throwing in a ground up No-Doz next time and skip the coffee."

You had me, and then you lost me. :)

[Bob Gross]

When I first saw this discussion thread, I thought it was about Goat Milk.

I thought that would be interesting.

–B.G.–

[Dave Heiss]

If your body doesn't handle cow's milk very well, this is a great high protein chocolate milk alternative.

Shakes up easily with cold water. I like it.

http://growingnaturals.com/products/rice-drink/

[Anonymous]

"I have done a bit of research on maltodextrin and personally, I pretty much stay away from the stuff as best I can. The problems I have with it is, maltodextrin has a glycemic score of 130 (sugar is 65) so, even though it's considered a carbohydrate, your body treats it as a double potency sugar, spiking your blood glucose levels and in turn causing a spike in insulin production."

That GI of 130 is precisely what makes maltodextrin such a great component of a recovery drink. The idea is to get as much glucose into the muscle cells as possible during that~30 minute post exercise period when they are in a state of elevated receptivity to glucose uptake. Insulin response facilitates the process. A number of folks here on BPL have been using malto as part of their recovery drink for several years now, with excellent results, and no reported health issues, so I'm not sure your argument makes a lot of sense from a technical point of view. Ditto your assertion that excess maltodextrin is stored as fat. That can be said for any excess energy substrate, so I'm not sure what your point is. In any case, in a backpacking context, fat is a valuable energy substrate, given that it contains 9 calories/gram. The trick is to hike at a pace where it will be the primary source of your energy, and to make sure that you have adequate carbohydrate available to support the efficient metabolism of your fat. Maltodextrin, being rapidly available, is an excellent source of carbs for this purpose. In my particular case, I also use maltodextrin during the day, in combination with a small amount of whey protein, as my sole source of dietary energy, relying on stored body fat for the rest of my energy. This has worked for me on trips up to 11 days so far, but is limited by my available body fat. After that additional dietary fat will have to be included in my carried food to make up for it. There are numerous previous threads on this subject that you might want to peruse to get a better feel for what is involved here.

"Another argument against using it as a recovery drink is, other than the high calorie content, it doesn't add any nutritional value to your body. Maltodextrin is void of vitamins and it's void of any minerals, of which muscles need to recover."

If maltodextrin were my sole source of calories, you would have a strong case. However, it is part of a recovery drink, not my sole source of calories. Like Greg, I drink it as soon as I stop hiking to jump start the recovery/refueling process, and follow it up with a solid meal of real food an hour or so later. I also supplement my meals with vitamins/minerals. Keep in mind also that we are talking here about food for a backpacking trip of relatively limited duration, not a normal front country diet.

All of that having been said, food choice is an enormously personal decision, so by all means do whatever works for you. But please try not to extrapolate from your personal choices to invalidate the choices of others, who have in this case very likely devoted at least as much thought to the subject as you have, and quite possibly put their conclusions to even more testing under field conditions.

[Bob Gross]

Some people simply can't stomach the maltodextrin and stuff like that. Personally, I can go a long way on Cytomax.

Some people eat to live. Others live to eat.

Personally, on a backpacking trip I eat by volume. I know how many cups of hot beverages I need in the morning. I know how many cups of hot stew I need in the evening. How much food I need for a backpacking trip depends on how it fills up my bear canister, and then my stomach.

–B.G.–

[Sarah Kirkconnell]

;-)

[Terry Sparks]

Tom,
I sincerely apologize to you if my response sounded as an opinionated attack on you, that certainly was not my intent whatsoever.

What I was trying to convey is, you left me curious about your original statement that Ultragen left you feeling uneasy about it's 60 grams of glucose and ingesting that much of it at one time.

Again I apologize to you for my poorly worded post but, what I wanted to convey is, the 1.5 ounces of maltodextrin you are now taking in your recovery drink has a higher glycemic score than the 60 grams of glucose in the Ultragen.

[Anonymous]

Indeed. ;0))

[Anonymous]

"I sincerely apologize to you if my response sounded as an opinionated attack on you, that certainly was not my intent whatsoever."

No need to apologize, Terry. It's all part of the give and take of the Forum, as far as I'm concerned. You were perfectly civil, and I disagreed, hopefully civilly as well. As long as it stays on that level, I have no problem with just about anything folks say. I do appreciate the sentiment, though. You're a class act, IMO.

"What I was trying to convey is, you left me curious about your original statement that Ultragen left you feeling uneasy about it's 60 grams of glucose and ingesting that much of it at one time."

I should have been clearer on that score, because there's a little history behind the statement. Where I ran into trouble with Ultragen was not in the backcountry, but after ingesting the 60 grams of glucose dose of Ultragen after hard training hikes up here in WA state and then getting in my car to drive home. I nearly passed out once and felt drowsy another time, a typical insulin response. That was enough to end my use of Ultragen after day hikes. When I was using it in the backcountry and hanging out in camp that was not an issue, nor did I notice any drowsiness, but that could easily be because I am usually tired at the end of a day in the mountains anyway, and am not trying to make split second decisions behind the wheel of a car. Since the Ultragen experience while driving, I have not used a recovery drink of any kind after day hikes, so I'm not sure if malto would affect me the same way. I could hypothesize that the fat from Nido in my current drink slows the absorption rate of the malto, but that is pure speculation at this point, as I am not willing to experiment on the highway.

"what I wanted to convey is, the 1.5 ounces of maltodextrin you are now taking in your recovery drink has a higher glycemic score than the 60 grams of glucose in the Ultragen."

True enough, and hopefully that will make it a better means of getting as much glucose into my muscle cells as possible during the 30 minute window of optimal absorption, especially if the absorption rate is being attenuated by the Nido fat content. I added the Nido in an effort to bump up the calorie count and for its high quality protein and calcium content, but there are usually tradeoffs. In this case possibly slowing the absorption rate of glucose.

[Bob Shaver]

I always take dried milk and powdered cocoa on backpacks, especially long ones of a week or so. I put milk in my coffee in the morning, and I have milk with cocoa in the evening. Anything I eat in the evening is recovery food. I'm diabetic, except when I walk 6 hours a day. Milk has some protein, some fat, and some carbs, and helps fill the tank at night.

[Terry Sparks]

I find it fascinating this thread was started with a link to ongoing research into athletic recovery drinks and everyone (except Bob and myself) have dismissed or ignored it completely. It seems to me, if there's that much money being funded by the universities to provide their athletes and, for the U.S. Olympic Organization providing it for their athletes for 10+ years, chocolate milk as a recovery drink probably works quite well.

I understand there is published "research" promoting recovery drinks containing large amounts of sugar and/or sugar substitutes, along with other ingredients (and that does work) but, consider the source of the research . For me, I'll prefer to believe the findings of the universities and the Olympic committee who don't have a profit motive for what is best, over a company who likes selling their sugar at $20.00 per pound.

I'm not diabetic like Bob but, I too have a recovery drink consisting mostly (not all) of Cacao powder and Nido after I'm done walking for the day.

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