What 2015 Itinerary Did You Get?

724-B has trek 18. Not sure as a group we are up to it. Some are packing heavy.

Itinerary 18 looks really neat. Please report back how everybody liked Metcalf Station. I had suggested we look at Itinerary 20, but everybody else wanted to stay in the South Country.

722-V is doing trek 23.

Having never been to Philmont, I'm really looking forward to it. Missed out on going when I was a youth. No one from our crew has ever been, so it will be interesting.

Been lurking for a long time on BPL trying to rework my gear from heavy to lightweight. My big 3 are now just a smidge heavier than my old backpack (old Gregory Lassen that was 7+lbs). Progress. :-)

You've got a long, dry hike once you leave Clarks Fork on your way to Tooth Ridge camp. You may want to have dinner (which requires a fair amount of water to cook and clean) for lunch once you get to Clarks Fork (depending on the time of day you get there) and then have your lunch for dinner. Then, you can have much less water to carry, even though you'll still need a lot. There's no water once you leave Clarks Fork. Even though there may be a spring listed at Schafers Pass, it's usually dry. Recap – you'll need to carry water for: Clarks Fork to Tooth Ridge Camp, the climb of the Tooth, and Tooth Ridge Camp back to CHQ. BTW, the trail from Tooth Ridge Camp to CHQ is also known (at least to my crews) as the "neverending trail".

So, this is our troop's first every bid to Philmont and I'm proud to say we've got two crews going. There's 10 in one and 9 in the other. We've been going through the motions (for 16 months now) doing research, had a shakedown trip already, fundraising, picking up new gear (there isn't much for backpacking in Iowa so this was fairly new to us), and now we know our itinerary. The boys wanted something in the 60-70 mile range and not a crazy amount of elevation changes. They landed on #10, the Valle Vidal trek. Well, I logged in last week, entered our info and in about 3 minutes, bam, we not only got our first choice of itinerary but we also got "sister trek" status. I did a happy dance in my office (the door was closed so nobody could see).

I'd love to pick the brain of anyone that's happened to run this trek. The Valle Vidal area is quite remote and there aren't a lot of established trails. I've heard that many had to bush-wack their way through a good portion of the time. I'm also wondering about water sources. They don't list any dry camps but based on what I can see on Google Earth, it looks fairly dry. Lots of cattle troughs, though.

Can anybody offer this flatlander and his boys any insight on Itinerary #10?

Never been there, though our 2002 trek was supposed to be in the area. That was the year of the Ponil Complex fire – North Country closed for the duration. Roughly 10,000 acres of the Ranch was burned. You will probably see some of the regrowth.

General comments:

– Practice map & compass skills. As you are aware there aren't many established trails. There are a fair number of jeep tracks, but they likely will not go where you need them.

– Take pictures of the Water Board in Logistics. Be sure the pics are readable on whatever you use. This is faster than trying to write this stuff down. (crew leader responsibility – you're on vacation). The Water Board lists the status of all water sources on the Ranch (and the Valle).

– This is a "Burro Packing Itinerary". You MUST take a burro. No claiming a "large animal allergy". Burros can be fun. They're no more stubborn than the average Scout.

– Even though you have "sister crew" status, don't hike together as one large group. You can meet up at campsites.

– You can't train for altitude in Iowa. Neither can we in West Virginia. At least we have some hills that will kick your butt when you hike wearing a pack. Try wearing loaded packs while doing lots of stairs, though you'll get lots of strange looks if doing this in most buildings ;).

I've done the hike from Upper Greenwood to Copper Park. You'll continue on the Baldy Town. It's a LONGGGG uphill (IIRC about 3 miles, seems like forever, jeep road, little shade) to the pass above Copper Park. Then it's not too bad the rest of the way.

I also recommend the "Philmont Advisors Guide", an unofficial aid to advisors. Available from http://www.bacphilmont.org/pag.html
It has more information than you'll probably want. ;)

Sorry for the long post.

No need to apologize for a long post when it comes to preparing for a trip like this! :) I truly appreciate the insight.

I'm still hoping to hear from someone with first hand intel on the Valle Vidal from a recent trip. The fire that prevented you from going in 2002 is still very prevalent. Based on the Google Earth imagery (dated 10/1/2013) still shows significant damage from the Ponil Complex Fire of 2002. Heck, it looks like a bomb went off in parts based on the images I've found. Seems like shade may be a bit of an issue, too.

Also cannot help with that particular trek, or the Valle. I am from IA though (Hawkeye Area Council, Cedar Rapids) and can tell you what we do to try and prepare.

If you're in the eastern part of the state Yellow River State Forest is a good location for shakedown hikes. If you in the western, Ive heard that Preparation Canyon (Loess Hills area) is pretty good. We also found that the nature trail worked us pretty good – the hard packed surface really toughened up the feet.

The best we could do for hills is our local sledding hill. Up and down, up and down, up and ….

In the end, even the Scouts who didnt put in 100% during shake downs did fine. The adults who didnt take it seriously – that was a different story.

edit: We did trek through part of the burn area on our 2012 trek. It was quite surreal.

Santa Claus Canyon 10 years later

It's taken 10 years for the regeneration to get this far. Some parts are far worse. I was surprised to see dead timber still standing. Also, some of the burn patterns are rather odd.

Google maps can also give you a view of the area.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/36%C2%B038'35.4%22N+105%C2%B008'17.8%22W/@36.6418979,-105.1429747,1474m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0

It's kind of a long url and you will have to paste it into your browser. Use the satellite view if the map looks blank. Zoom out and you can get an idea of the extent of the fire.

This is the fire-break 'dozed on the ridge-top which was, thankfully, never needed. It's obvious to the eye if you're on Baldy.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/36%C2%B036'54.0%22N+105%C2%B009'30.4%22W/@36.6129065,-105.1511786,737m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0

Shade CAN be an issue. All the more reason for early morning hiking in this area. Sunscreen is a must everywhere on the Ranch.

We're in the metro area, but I used to turkey hunt Yellow River. We already did our first shakedown up there over spring break. It was an awesome reality check for all of us (adults included). It inspired me to figure out how I can pare down my weight more. Two days after we returned (perfect spring weather) it got pounded with 12" of snow! Dodged a bullet there. Those trails wouldn't be passable with that much snow…

Loess Hills is also on our radar. Little Sioux Scout Ranch has a pretty decent trail system and has some NASTY hills. Preparation Canyon is just a few miles east of LSSR and has been eyeballed as a destination.

Great advice here. Thanks, Jay!

Yeah, Google Earth and Google Maps are sort of an addiction for me. I've got the route loaded in GE and then imported the data into Google Maps so we could see it on shaded relief. I'm not sharing it with the boys until they have gone through the motions and used the trek write-up and maps to figure out where we're going.

Half of the journey is, in my opinion, getting prepared for the trip. My dad instilled this in me when I was a scout preparing for our first high adventure trip to the Boundary Waters. I still have our route memorized (27yrs later).

I plan to lead them to these sources but want them to discover the burn scars, the lack of shade in the Valle, etc. I've found some great videos on Youtube, one of which was produced by Philmont on the Valle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9md9YQerSY

How did people do their research before the internet???

Mostly didn't. The "Philmont Advisors Guide" began about 20 years ago. There were a few websites available and a mail list. Selden Ball had the most comprehensive site (www.lepp.cornell.edu/~seb/philmont.html) but it has not been updated since 2008. There also was philmontforum.com (ceased operation in 2014?). Not much else.

Now there's a wealth of info on Philmont and related stuff. Back in the old days you had to depend on what Philmont put out – in print. To see some of those docs check out the document archives at:

http://philmontscoutranch.org/Museums/Archives.aspx

Great suggestions. On one point,

>"Take pictures of the Water Board in Logistics. "

I do a lot of that with my phone. But for something as important as water, I'd print out a copy in advance (by laser printer or xerox, not water-soluble inkjet) and then manually update it with a sharpie once there.

Maybe it's just me, but

Great idea on printing out a table or something like that to write in the water board info for your trip. One suggestion is to use Adventure Paper.You can find it on Amazon or most outfitter stores like REI. http://www.amazon.com/National-Geographic-TOW7900100-Adventure-Letter/dp/B002FBZF8O/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1428634596&sr=8-4&keywords=adventure+paper

I use this on a lot of backpacking trips. I'll print out a map from Google Maps or a mapping program I use with my GPS. Don't ask me how it works but you can print in full color with an ink jet printer and the ink never runs when wet.I use regular ink, nothing special. I've had maps completely soaked and rung water out of them and the ink was still there. I'm sure there's a limit but you certainly don't have to worry about them falling to pieces or ink running when getting rained on.

You could print out a table from Excel/Word, etc. on to one of the legal size sheets of adventure paper ahead of time and then fill it out when at Philmont. I've never tried writing on them but I would assume it would act the same as the ink jet printout. If you got a fine tip gel liquid ink type pen from Pentel or something similar I'd think it would work very well. If you had access to an ink jet printer that can print 11×17 that would give you more room to write.

Jamie.

There's no way to print in advance copies of the water board, it's a dynamic thing. I should say water BOARDS, there are 3 to cover the Ranch and the Valle.

It's difficult to see in the picture I posted above, but the report date is the right-most. Below is a segment of the board:

Camp – campsite (obvious) ABREU is a staffed camp, Agua Fria is a trail camp.
Water Location – where to find it. Spigot does NOT mean purified water. Purify unless
told water is clean by staff.
Report – how the water is flowing – dry or trickle means find someplace else for water
Date – when the source was last checked.

I've not done the photo on a cell phone, I carry a camera. Trying bring a print copy and then fill-in-the-blank strikes me as way too much work. You could reduce the amount of time by just recording the sources near your trek, but I still think the photo of the whole board works best (for us). It took, maybe, 1-2 minutes to make sure we got it in a readable form (no fuzzy pictures). Logistics, where the water board is housed is a very busy place.

BTW, I do carry a cell phone. It's off unless it's an emergency (twice had to call health lodge, once to call admin about unsafe practice). I do let the kids call home from Baldy ;)

Don't overthink stuff. It's supposed to be fun. Remember, YOU are on vacation. The crew is in charge. Doing everything ahead of time should not be your job.

I will not be going but 4 from our Crew will be. Since they got #3 (the first choice), in looking at the specs for it my only real concern for them (especially the 3 females – 1 a leader) is from Shaefer's Pass (dry) to Black Mountain (with possible side trip to the Tooth). With the side trip it would be by far the longest day for them compounded by the dry camp so I'd like recommendations on how much water each person should tank up with at Clarks Fork (assuming they hopefully decide to have dinner for lunch) to make it to Black Mountain camp?

I'll pass along the suggestion for getting a photo of the water boards, too.

Cimarroncito to Clarks Fork is about 2.5 miles – water up there. Clarks Fork to Shaefers Pass is about 2 miles. That will be a fairly short day. It may be too early to do dinner for lunch at Clarks Fork. But, since it's a short day, hanging out at Clarks would be fun. I would guess about 6 liters total (that's without cooking dinner). They'll only have to carry part of that on the sidehike.

The next day is the long one – Shaefers Pass, Tooth sidehike, then on to Black Mountain Camp (going over Black Mt). The Tooth sidehike will actually be longer than Shaefers Pass to Black Mountain Camp.

It may be obvious, but break camp and bear bag smellables at Shaefers Pass. Only carry water, rain gear and lunch, and do the Tooth sidehike. We carried 3 liters each for the Tooth sidehike and some still ran out. Start as early as possible. Calling the way to the Tooth a trail is a gross exaggeration in some parts.

I wouldn't worry about the women, on our last coed crew some of them walked the guys into the dirt.

Minor addendum –

If the crew doesn't want to hike over Black Mountain, there is an alternate route.

From Shaefers Pass go down to North Fork Urraca, water up and take to creekside trail to Black Mountain Camp.

They need to work their own hike, though. Adults – don't just do something, stand there…

Thanks for the advice, Ed. One young lady is athletic enough for it, but fairly girlie/prissy, so she may be fine. The other one and the leader are not in good shape yet and having trouble finding the time (or health) to improve that. The young lady just had knee surgery a few months back after twisting it yet again on one of training hikes (going down some stairs). She'll be cleared to hike again the end of May right after our last shakedown (and only one for her) so we're hoping to convince her mom to move that appt up a week.

We did Trek #3 in 2013.
As already mentioned, we also ate an early lunch (= our dinner food) at Clarks Fork. Also tanked up (=4 liters each) & cameled up (drank up) on water. Did the last cameling up at the the last crossing of a creek/drainage.
Tooth of Time is doable that day, should your crew decide to do it … but it does makes for a l-o-n-g day.

For us, collecting water from rain drainage off the dinner fly (in a low slung, inverted V pitch) was limited in success as it didn't really rain much that afternoon & evening.

Left early the next morning to go up and over Black Mountain. At the summit, 2 had run out of water so the crew leader redistributed some water. The "trail" down Black Mountain is series of drainages with a layer of micro talus. Switchbacks didn't start until the very end.
By the time we reached Black Mountain camp, 5 of us (out of 12) were out or just running out of water. The Urraca flows right by the camp for a water source.

RE: Viable "bail out" / "plan B"
As Ed mentioned, going down from Shaffers & around, following the Urraca is a good alternative to keep in mind for your crew leader & the crew (depending on the amount of their leftover water). We had an unaffiliated "sister crew" that went that way.

NOTES:
1.) For those two particular days, the weather was cool and overcast with occasional sprinkles of rain. 2.) Our crew pace was not slow, as they had light carrying weights (Reference Point: leaving out of base camp the average, carry weight for the boys was just under 26 lbs … that's with 3 liters of water, 3 days of food, personal gear, and a share of group gear ).

Happy Trails!

EDIT: Don't worry about the youth (male or female) … it's the adults that are suspect. Worry about them ;-)

For sure take pictures of the water board.

But…..dont trust it either.

If it says ample, your good.

If it says trickle, well, it might be bone dry. It might have trickled last week.

Hunting lodge pump, forget about it. Nasty sulfurous water you wont want to drink. Seriously.

Take pics of other maps too, showing where your trail building will be, maps of campgrounds when you enter them, etc.

The Scouts voted and chose Itinerary: 11 – 61 Mi. – Challenging as their first choice. My guess is the subtitle of the "Shooting Trek" might have drawn their attention. Regardless we got the Crew's first choice.

Michael

May be a statement of the obvious but here goes… For backpackers visiting from lower elevations, you can strengthen your body but in my experience, acclimating to the oxygen difference can only be accomplished with time at elevation. Even a day or two above 5k will make a big difference. (If you're in good shape, you'll acclimate even faster.) The other element is hydration. Everyone needs to pre-hydrate and keep hydrating throughout the trip. This will also help minimize the impacts of elevation. If you're flying into Denver or Colorado Springs, there are tons of day hikes that can help you adjust. LMK if interested… Hope this helps!

The two times I've camped at Shaeffers Pass the spring has been flowing. Slowly, not much more than a trickle, but enough. The spring is located SW of the actual pass along the trail that leads to Black Mountain.
We will be camping at Tooth Ridge this year (Itinerary #8) and plan to carry 6 L of water per person up from Clarks Fork unless we are absolutely positive the spring is flowing.

Taking a picture of the water board is a good idea. You will likely have a digital camera – so use it.

On itinerary #3: the "trail" from Shaeffers to the Tooth has some pretty rugged stretches – not the usual Philmont highway.
Going south around Black Mountain instead of over it gives you quicker access to water if you are running low.