Hacked discussion of tents? restored

[DGoggins]

Just a quick note: Walmart didn't have the Duck brand 1.5mil thick (heavy duty) polycryo in stock in the larger patio door size. However, frost king now makes heavy duty versions that are at home depot. Gets low reviews…but b/c of the double sided tape which supposedly isn't very stick, not the film itself.

Oh, and I see ace hardware sells a 1.2mil version in the same size. (actually, 120in long instead of 110in so a bit longer)

[Bob Moulder]

First thing, I got rid of the steel ring and associated loop and now just use one simple loop of 1.8mm Zline between the LL3 and the stake. Tested the setup and friction is not an issue.

VIDEO of the simplified system.

Photos showing before and after…

With steel ring

Without steel ring… much simpler

Looks a lot more tidy

Some photos of the mitten hook simplification…

Stages of modification

Hooked into the factory loop

Used several wraps of polyester thread to lock it in, and a tiny drop of cyanoacrylate (super) glue to secure it… it's not coming out accidentally.

[JCH]

Simplification:
As I’m sitting here marveling at Bob Moulder’s “distillation” of his door closure system, inspiration hits me.
Now that I've added the Tac toggles to my door closure points, I no longer need the carabiner at all!

Before:

After:

Duh!

Compared to the carabiner, the toggles slip in and out of the grosgrain loop much more easily – Win.
*And* it's nearly impossible for them to slip out when under tension, i.e, when you don’t want them to – Win win.
*And* we have eliminated the carabiner – Win win win.

Innovation(?):
I hate clutter (a software engineer that hates clutter is news to whom?). It always bugged me that when the doors were open and rolled up, the door tensioning linelok, cord and carabiner just lay there in the dirt, and mud, getting stepped on, and tripped over.
Then it hit me. Again.

A small prusik knot and a Tac toggle!
Problem.
Solved.

[JCH]

For John Abela as requested:

Tac toggle replacing the square toggle:

Holding the door open:

John, If you can use these photos, feel free to reproduce them.

[DGoggins]

Thank you for all of the pictures! Very helpful. I can't wait to get my tac toggles in! (now I'm glad I ordered 20). Which….I didn't notice when I first placed the order, but they have bundles for 10 and 50. 10 are $3.50. So I had to cancel my first order and place a second to save a few bucks.

Huh….I would have thought that the carabiner would be easier to use with the tac toggles….b/c its ridged. That's great to know that its the opposite!

Now I'm thinking I'll be removing the lineloc buckles ala John Abela and switching to tac toggles. Tac toggles should be just as easy to use in winter with gloves, and would probably weigh slightly less. The main benefit I'm thinking is that you can get the doors closer together. Plus, I could then switch to also using Bob Moulder's tension/release lines for easier use in the tent, which has very little weight penalty.

[Bob Moulder]

John H: Very neat solution!

Obviously the door closure system as shipped was buggy and a bit annoying to most of us who've used the tent.

It's interesting to see folks pursuing different tracks to address the issue while keeping it simple and not larding it up with unnecessary gizmos.

Now that I've got mine assembled I realize I could use your tac toggle idea on my door panels in place of the modified mitten hooks, which would make for a very small gap when the panels are tensioned. But as John A points out, a slightly larger gap is better for airflow. About 3 nights ago the dog and I slept through (mostly!) three hours of light/moderate thunderstorms with no breach of water or wind. This was with the original carabiner setup and its inherent gap.

We did, however, get quite a bit of condensation because the conditions following the thunderstorms were absolutely ideal for its formation: 34°F and 'pea soup' fog with heavy drizzle and light rain. No amount of airflow was going to help in that situation.

I don't know how people keep their down quilts/bags dry in such conditions. I was extremely glad to have the EE Prodigy… but that's a different can o' worms…

[JCH]

Bob,

As John A and I discussed, I (we) prefer not to close all 4 doors unless absolutely necessary. I've found it rather easy to leave at least one door open, except in heavy rain w/swirling winds. In any case, when both doors on a side are shut, it's because the sky has truly opened up and I want the smallest gap possible…to do that the door corners must be cinched as closely together as possible.

BTW, I applaud your design…very ingenious. Great to see so many solutions…a little something for everyone :)

re Fog: I once spent 3 days/2 nights in Shenandoah Nat Park in the clouds with a down bag…the cloud ceiling was a couple hundred feet below my elevation the entire time. Only thing that saved me was the DWR I had applied during the bag's last washing.

[Bob Moulder]

OK, yes, I almost always have at least 1 door completely open when the weather warms up. Very nice in bug net mode with all doors up during very warm summer nights.

And the tension/release setup works fine with one door open as well.

[Packman Pete]

They were at REI. I think the Tac-toggles through the grosgrain is a better solution, though. With prussik knot along the guyout line, it is just like the tarptent or SMD solution. Simple and elegant if it works right.

Why is everyone swapping out the Zline for glowire?

[JCH]

>>Why is everyone swapping out the Zline for glowire?

Can only speak for myself, but got *really* tired of tripping over the guylines. Glowire shines like crazy at night.

[DGoggins]

Yeah….honestly probably just the grosgrain is the best solution if John states that its even easier to use than the original carabiner.

I looked for other shaped carabiners….the heart shaped one would just make the tac toggles from the doors farther apart. The idea of the y shaped carabiner was to make it so the toggles overlap each other, so even if the heart shaped one had a separator in the middle, the toggles would just be right next to each other anyway.

[Matthew / BPL]

I believe ZPacks has added a mesh pocket to each end of the Duplex.

[Bob Moulder]

from the website…

[PJ K]

There is a chance this is my tent. I ordered a Duplex with .74oz cuben back in early March and asked if they could add pockets on the inside. At that time Joe had told me they were thinking about making that standard but they will add pockets to mine. It is shipping today.

[JCH]

-PJ K

If this is your first Duplex, prepare to be ruined for any other tent :)

[Matthew / BPL]

Yep I ordered a Duplex in mid-March and ZPacks says mine will come with the pockets too. I can't wait to be ruined for other tents.

[PJ K]

I'm looking forward for all other tents to be ruined. I'm taking it out this weekend (assuming there's no delay in shipping).

Matthew: I believe ZPacks has added a mesh pocket to each end of the Duplex.

Yeah I just had somebody tell me about that the other day – pretty cool ZPacks decided to finally add them. I suppose I should go update my article to reflect this change, eh!

[Lisa B]

This was an awesome review! Very helpful. It touched on all the points that keep bringing me back to this tent in consideration of purchasing it.

I was wondering if you guys could give me a little 'insight', no pun intended : – )

As a single female backpacker new to all of this, I am concerned about privacy while changing in my tent. I don't want to put on a strip show, silhouetted or even more revealing while I am traveling alone!! This is the last thing holding me up from purchasing as it does appear to be quite see through.

I am hoping you will address my concerns in terms of day vs night with a flashlight on inside the tent, different color options vs thickness. I understand that the green is thicker and the camo has an extra layer, both potentially providing more privacy.

I am also weighing weight vs privacy. Is the green or camo really necessary?

So, what do you recommend? Can you post pictures of the female in your life changing in the Zpack? If not, that may answer my question!!!

I know, I'll have to get over the whole privacy thing out on the trail, but at least let me have some privacy in my tent!!

Looking forward to hearing from you! Thanks!

[Bob Moulder]

Lisa, I think you have it figured out, which is that the camo would likely best answer your concerns. Mine is said to be the "green" color, but it is an extremely faint version of green. I think it looks more like a light grey than anything else. However my color vision isn't all that good.

[Matthew / BPL]

Lisa, have you seen this review? Lots of photos of the camo.

http://hikelighter.com/2015/02/28/zpacks-duplex-tent-2/

I'll be happy to take some photos of my .51 green Duplex once it arrives. (soon please!)

[Lisa B]

Matthew and Bob, thank you for your thoughts. Are you sure you don't both have the olive color which is .51 and looks more grey i think. The Green one is .74.

[Lisa B]

Bob, if you have the green .74, then you must think it's still fairly transparent from the outside looking in?

[Matthew / BPL]

Yep. I've ordered the Olive.

[Katherine .]

LIsa–

I wouldn't worry about it. I've used more exposed shelters (tarp/bivy, tarp/hammock and cowboy camped) with co-ed groups and never really had an issue.

1. change when it's dark, momentarily turn off your light
2. master the fine art of changing your clothes w/out ever actually being naked
3. do what you gotta do really quickly, facing away from the direction people would be

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