Cutting it too light

When I did the Colorado Trail, I took a 5×7 tarp.

It worked…if I did not mind having the tarp very low to ground.

For the sake of perhaps 5 -6 oz vs my 8×10 tarp, I had a miserable sleeping experience and it was not comfortable during some very rainy and snowy nights.

I went back to larger tarps.

That was the start of me learning that lighter is not always better.

Before the flame wars start, I am not saying 5×7 tarps don't work. It just did not work for me.

No specific tales but I can remember a few times when I cut my sleeping gear a bit too light, and once my footwear. But another time the forecast turned our to be about 50f warmer than expected and ended up getting heat blisters from my boots.

I've underbagged it a long time ago. I was more a "long-distance day hiker" in '91 (start at dawn/get back to the truck at night for late night happy hour) and decided to try a rolled up surplus poncho liner (quilted with a whole 1/4 -inch synthetic insulation which was supposed to keep me warm along a whole bunch of young man invincibility syndrome) as a survival sleeping bag … idea from a 'zine I read (they had those paper thingy's before Internet). Tried it in the spring-time high desert. That was a miserable night as the desert quickly loses its heat if in the dunes. 1991 .. 23 years ago. Dang.

Edit: tense

5×7 is great when the forecast is clear to have some insurance but yeah, I'd hate to ride out multiple stormy days in one.

My story.

I took a $15 mesh hammock out for the first over nighter in 1993 without bringing any kind of bottom insulation for the hammock or the ground. Long long sleepless frigid night.

Plenty of other stories of ice caves aggressively melting on me, sleeping under ferns on a cold/wet coastal Oregon night, etc that were not a result of being stupid light… just stupid full stop.

Well, there was the time I went on my first time ever climb (Symmetry Spire in the Tetons) and I hadn't yet learned how to rappel. Ended up spending the night on the mountain 'cuz we couldn't get down fast enuf before it got dark.

And then there's the time I arrived at a trailhead to go cross-country skiing and discovered that I had "forgotten" my ski poles.

Guess those were "bad" choices since I should've thought of 'em in advance.

I've had a variety of too-cold nights, from "hm, there must be some way to sleep in a hammock when it's chilly" to "the microclimate next to this frozen lake is ten degrees colder than at the nearest forecast station". Nothing that couldn't be solved by building a fire and going low on sleep, though.

Also had at least one trip with cold meals due to leaving stove at home. That was forgetfulness rather than deliberately cutting it too light, though.

HK: Which zine, do you remember? Just curious, that used to be my area of expertise.

Malto, last July in Yosemite I got caught in the heaviest rain I've ever witnessed. The trail went from totally dry to being a stream within a couple minutes. If I had tried to take off my rain jacket to put on my down jacket, I would have gotten both my base layer and down jacket very wet. I had to be very careful getting things out my pack to prevent water going down the trash bag liner.

I've done the warm while wet thing in a windshirt and fleece and it works ok, but I don't see how that could ever work when you have cold water literally flowing through your clothing because of a heavy downpour.

I don't have a ton of experience in the Sierras yet and based on people only carrying a windshirt, I'm assuming the rain I experienced was abnormal.

Thinking one sleeping bag = double quilt. And my husband is not a thin guy.

Then marching him out into some endless pouring rain in the Catskills.

It was supposed to be our first 2-night trip. The second night ended up involving a sauna.

Which zine, …?

Been so long but they used to be in about every military surplus shop back in my broke days ('89-'91). Thinking the poncho liner sleeping bag was probably "the schizzle" when jungles get chilly at higher altitudes. The plans called for sewing but my thought was wrap it around burrito style, though it was more a taco. A very cold taco but sewing would not have helped. Maybe into the 50's …

My second 7-day, 6-night trip to the Nankoweap area of North Rim Grand Canyon in April. Hey, the forecast was good, and it was supposed to be warm. And it was up to 100F during the day, so I brought a 40F sleeping bag (and I'm a very cold sleeper).

But most of the nights were about 10F colder than they had predicted (lowest temp was 35F). I was cold all night, every night — and for what? To save about a pound?

It was perfectly safe (NO risk of dying or anything), but all that misery for nothing? Silly.

Getting out to do the do the JMT again this summer, my past starting pack weight has been between 15-17 pounds.

This year I'm working on a 13 pound pack weight.
A little faster and even less gear.

So the Cutting it too light, is still in the making process.

I took my then girlfriend on her first camping trip with me down to the Everglades on Thanksgiving several years back. Plan was to fish and camp on the outer islands. I forgot our tent poles and she suggested sleeping in the cockpit of my flats boat. I had a cheap 40* bag for myself. Temperature got down in the high 30s first night with a stiff breeze blowing over me in the open cockpit. Needless to say I couldn't wait for the sunrise.

Doing a late spring trip to ski the Dana Couloir off of Mt. Dana in the high Sierra my partner and I set up a base camp and left our ice axes and crampons before ascending by a back route to the top of the couloir, because all of the snow we had skied in on was mush.

My lightweight alternative was ski pole grips with molded plastic "self arrest" picks and boot treads with mini tire studs screwed in. Half way down the couloir the snow turned into sheets of ice (a well known fact, if we had bothered to check). I booted out on a turn and lost my edges and attempted to do a self arrest, but the plastic picks would not bite. I ended up tumbling about 500 feet into some rocks, but had the good fortune to hit them feet first and not break anything except my skis. Then it was an exercise in sheer terror down climbing from the rocks without ice axe or crampon toe points.

Back in the 80's when lightweight mountain bike components were first being developed Keith Bontrager famously said "There's light, and then there's stupid light" to refer to components that were so light they could not be trusted not to break. I've tried not to go "stupid light" ever since that ski trip.

In the early 1980's I was playing with lightweight techniques – tarp, not tent; no sleeping bag just more clothes; no-cook menu; thoughtfully layered clothing; no changes of clothes other than socks, just wash & dry things during the day. 29 pounds total weight (with food) for 9 days. The biggest shortcoming versus today's gear was a full frame pack at maybe 4 poundsAt 7,500 feet and 40F it was fine. At 8,500 feet and 34F it was okay. At 9,500 feet and 29F, I didn't sleep as well.

I avoided going "stupid light" by watching climbing friends use some of the same tricks and more on approaches and it didn't look fun to me. Looking through the supermarket for the cheapest, lightest calories and taking 1/3 peanut butter, 1/3 Squeeze Parkay and 1/3 crackers (to serve to goo on). And I don't mean for lunch, but for 3 meals a day. And when all the crackers crumbled, they'd spread the PB on their palm, sprinkle on trisket crumbs, and lick it all off their hand. Whereas I'd always have a mix of carbs, protein and fat, several different menus through the week and generally eat more like I would in town.

Regarding the "should have taken proper rain gear": True. I'm often tempted to leave that weight behind. My intermediate version is to pack two kitchen-sized trash bags. One to become a poncho and the other a rain skirt. Caving 101 – tuck a folded trash bag in your helmet. It's the lightest, smallest, cheapest way to get warmer. And you can haul trash out in it.

Slow connection – double posted by accident.

Wasn't a matter of trying to be light, just had no idea what I was getting into.
Hiked straight into a snowstorm at Kolob Canyons the first week of March 2011. It was my first time backpacking anywhere outside the Southeast.
Afternoon start after dayhiking Angel's Landing before lunch. Just heading in 4 miles to camp, planning to go to Kolob Arch and back out the next day.
Several feet of snow on the ground, and I treated it like a quickie overnighter in Alabama.
Was also using rented snowshoes for the first time, which after reading up on them later, might have been suitable for someone 50lbs lighter than me.

Snow with high winds like I'd never seen before, postholing in mush between flooding drainages, one of which I faceplanted in thanks to the snowshoes. Between the deep snow and trying to find ways across the water without getting my feet and legs wet(and getting wet, anyway), it took over 5 hours to make 4 miles.
I had on rain pants and jacket over Marmot Scree pants, and a Capilene 1 top. Had a Powerstretch 1/4 zip and a pair of lightweight bottoms for campwear, and a Marmot Arete 40F bag paired with a Z-Lite small pad for sleeping in my ID bivy. Just enough for me at the forecast low of 32F(used the same stuff for 4 days with temps down to freezing a few months before).

It started out as a lot of fun. Seemed like quite the little adventure. By the time I made camp it was dark, and I was wet and exhausted, but still having fun.
Then the snow passed, and the fun factor began to drop with the temperature, which went to 16F if I remember correctly.
I did sleep a little, but it was a very uncomfortable night.

Thankfully none of my bone-headed decisions have ever caused a dangerous situation, but I've suffered through a couple cold nights here & there. Forecast calls for a low of 40F – do I take the 2lbs 20F sleeping bag or the 12oz 40F quilt??? On paper that seems like a no-brainer. A couple nights at 30F helped show me the err of my ways.

Ryan

I planned the food for a 12 person, 27 day JMT hike, and didn't plan for enough food. We charged everyone $50 each for 27 days worth of food plus transportation. It was 1971, we were all students, but better and more food would have been way worth it. People complained about the price!

I hiked in the Sierra using the "Sierra Bombing Method." We took minimal gear and if the weather got bad, we "bombed out", using youthful endurance and speed. We thought we could tough our way past hypothermia. That worked in the Sierra, range of gentle weather, but didn't work when I moved to Washington. The second time I climbed Rainier we got clobbered with a fierce storm, and after surviving that I decided to invest in real wet weather gear.

"Malto, last July in Yosemite I got caught in the heaviest rain I've ever witnessed. The trail went from totally dry to being a stream within a couple minutes. If I had tried to take off my rain jacket to put on my down jacket, I would have gotten both my base layer and down jacket very wet. I had to be very careful getting things out my pack to prevent water going down the trash bag liner."

Another reason I almost always bring an umbrella (Golite chrome dome). Often it seems like extra weight, since I bring other rain gear as well, but whenever it rains I am so happy I brought it. Note that it supplies a degree of warmth compared to just a rain jacket in that the rain doesn't fall on your shoulders, neck and head, and thus cool you off. Also, you can ventilate well under an umbrella.

Enough…this topic has been well discussed in other threads, I guess concerning umbrellas you either love them or hate them.

I think I'm actually a lot safer than most day hikers in my area since I stuff a 1 lb down quilt and 8 ounce tarp into my frameless-already-has-a-sleeping-pad backpack and can safely overnight if needed. All for the same weight of most framed over-featured hydration day packs!

As far as while backpacking, I've relied on my umbrella+wind shirt to keep me dry in some storms that fortunately weren't very windy. If they were windy I would have had to hunker down or risk hypothermia. A fleece or a real rain jacket would help but I don't think they make you invulnerable to 40 degree blowing rain, so I would probably consider hunkering down anyway.

Other than that I've pushed my sleep systems to their comfort limit, but I don't see the danger in that – it just sucks.

I don't get out enough and don't go light enough to have ever cut it too light. However, on a annual trip on labor day, that hasn't seen rain on that trip in 20 years, it rained on the last day. I had rain gear (just a jacket), but my two companions did not. Fortunately for them I had two trash bags. I happened to have two as I was planning on hauling out some trash from the camp site we were at. They became much appreciated rain gear instead!

I think Larry brings up a very good point. On shorter trips, the temptation to cut back on base weight items is much less, since total pack weight won't be that high.

On longer trips (6+ nights) the temptation to cut back is huge because of all the food weight (and even more so in areas where water is scarce). When you load up your pack with 5L of water and 7 days of food…those are the conditions that make you want to cut every conceivable ounce.