A Philmont Journal – Part 3

I think that for some Philmont won't be what they were looking for. I am sorry that the gentleman had a problem with his crew and his itinerary was too "program rich". Let's face it, Philmont is just not for everybody.

What I hope for is that us folks that just got back explain to PSR that some of the things they are doing could be done better. I truly believe they listen. You folks on BPL are a resource. Help them out.

My problems this year were:

1. Suppers. The Mountain House meals of previous years worked. They tasted great, there was LESS trash, water was conserved, and lets be honest, there was less smell-ables laying around. They were light and the fuel plus pots required were lighter too. Doesn't the crew have enough to deal with besides clean up? Pasta sides are great and light. You can buy them off the shelf.

2. Itinerary re-routes due to the the fires. We get it, there was an emergency and things had to happen. Our crew had our trek cut from 85 miles to 48. We trained 56 miles of trails, some with elevation gains of 3,500 feet a day. Nobody at logistics asked what we wanted or what we were capable of. It was just assigned. Another crew we met was assigned a trek 30 miles further than they asked for and got in over their heads. There were quite a few cases of heat exhaustion and dehydration this year on crews not being prepared for it. At no time could you get a change in an itinerary even after the danger of the fires had subsided.

3. Trail meals. How much fiber can one person eat? The stuff is heavy too. Cans? Really? We wound up dumping our Gatorade at the first swap box. Each day contained one pound of Gatorade per person. I watched one Staff Camp box up the Gatorades to go back to Services to be used again.

4. Sticks on the trees to protect from bear ropes. Wouldn't it be easier to just drive a few permanent stakes? I mean you've already drilled a hole through two trees.

5. Ultra lite. Frankly I don't know how you guys did it. I started out with a base weight of 16 pounds and put on another 20 with food and 4 liters of water. My go lite jam was way over its max weight and killed me. Next time I'm going to bring a pack with more support just because of the stuff they require. I'll dump their tarp and use a lighter one. I'll only bring one pot and a lighter stove but I'll still get stuck with some of the other stuff. I guess its back to my Kelty Redcloud? Argh!!

I love the place for what it does for the kids. I will also bring another crew back. But please if you have been there and feel the same way let them know. You guys know more than most of how to make it better. They really do listen.

IWGBTP

BK 618Kilo2

I'm not sure if going truly UL is really feasible for Philmont. I tried to do it as much as I could for myself and my crew, but didn't come anywhere near true UL. What we did end up doing helped and the fact we weren't all sub 20lbs didn't in any way make for a less fun trip. My base weight was about 17lbs and I was carrying too much. Part of it was making sure I stuck to the gear list we all were using and part of it was uncertainty about the temps. I wasn't sure if my 40* EE Rev would be enough so I packed some 150 wt wool layers with my other sleep gear. A 40* bag was more than enough. I was even hot on some nights.

Can UL at PSR be done? Sure, but you would need several factors in your favor.

1) Cost – We all know losing lbs is cheap. Losing ounces is not. There are some UL items that are cheap, but others like a down quilt or CF backpack are not. Unless you have a crew (parents and scout) starting out with the goal of dropping a lot of weight, this likely won't happen.

2) Water – I'm happy to say that it appears the drought at PSR is on its way out. We got there and even the staffers had a hard time convincing everyone there was a drought when it was raining 2-3 times a day an hour at a time. Our last night it rained for 16 hours straight with 1.5-2" of rain. For us, water availability was a non issue. The only dry camp we had was at Schaeffer's Pass. Uraca Creek was full and fast flowing (best tasting water there). We ate dinner for lunch. We ended up hauling close to 20L and used every bit of it for the Tooth hike the next day. Carrying water wasn't a big deal for us as we spread it out over every crew member and no one was carrying it in their hands (saw several people do this). Lots of little Platys was easier to handle than one or two big jugs. The scouts all had their Nalgenes (heavy I know) and Smartwater bottles, but most of the time, we only had to fill one at a time because the water sources were there. I can't stand Micropur'd water (tastes like pool water). I used a 2L GravityWorks and it did a great job for our 11 man crew.

3) Cooking – Pick a method your crew likes but be prepared to use the Philmont Way in case your ranger nixes your plans. If you can show your lighter way saves on trash or water usage and your ranger knows the spirit of the rules vs the letter of the rules, you can drop some weight here.

4) Rain gear – FroggToggs – Cheap and effective. Work great at being a wind breaker too.

5) Temperatures – I have to think the 20* recommendation PSR gives you is based on the inability of some manufactures to produce an accurately rated bag. Our highest camp never got below 45*. Most of our crew went with 40-50* bags and were fine. I brought a pair of merino cycling arm warmers and used them once. As heavy as lightweight socks and can be taken on/off without taking your pack off.

6) Shelter – We had a 4 and 3 man tent for the boys. This worked great in a few areas. They were MH Drifters. This setup allowed us to have only 4 tents which meant fewer items to carry. Each person carried about ~1.5-2 lbs of shelter (per MH's weight). It also meant each tent was a little warmer due to there being more bodies inside. That allowed the guys with 50+ degree bags to be fine the whole trip. Bring your own dining fly. We used my older Kelty Noah 9 and it was perfect. A sil 8×10 would be better. Use trekking poles for support. You will need the fly.

7) Food – Take the time to repackage every meal. It's worth the few extra minutes of lost hiking time. Lose the corn nuts and cajun spice trail mix. No one needs roasted peanuts with every meal. The Gatorade is a take it or leave it thing. I was fine with just water. We always had too many leftovers after dinner. Go with one less than you are given. Still plenty of food. Don't have anyone bring "extra" food. They won't use it.

8) Clothing – You only need 2 pr of underwear and lightweight socks. I could have done fine with one shirt too. Leave the extra baselayers at home.

I've asked before, but really all that matters is how the Scouts enjoy the experience?

We adults can hash out about the Philmont way, but seems like most Scouts enjoy the experience.

And if it gives the Scout a love for the outdoors, isn't that what is important?

I climbed Mt. Lafayette in blue jeans, Texas Steer workboots and cotton long johns.

Everything quite contrary to what what I do today. :)

But that trip ignited a passion for the outdoors I am thankful for.

One of my guys is going back for Rayado and two have expressed interest in ROCS. My guys had a great time despite the rules, food and pack weight. Good luck Elizabeth and have fun.

BK
618k2

I didn't hear directly that the Philmont Way was the only way. There are some rangers that go out of their way to make sure their crew does it by the book so to speak and will have nothing to do with with anything that varies from that way. One of our other crews had one of these guys and he didn't know anything but the absolute extreme of doing it one way (as in showers and clean laundry = angry bear attracting smell even after 2 months). Needless to say they didn't really like him that much. I think the whole reason people aren't chilling is PSR has the opportunity to be a model for many but doesn't fully embrace it. They can and should do more to make LNT easier to follow. Preaching LNT then giving scouts a gigantic pile of trash producing food, far in excess of what they need is making it harder to actually practice LNT. They have a beautiful ranch and anything that can be done to keep it that way with less work should be done. Kids are going to have fun out there regardless, but they are more likely to apply what they learn elsewhere when it allows them to do/get what they need done more easily.

livingontheroad wrote about frustration with slow/inefficient crew members:

"For instance, the second day hiking, a couple of our adults and kids were making us taking 20 min pack off breaks every 30 min on easy trail. In addition to 5 min water breaks in between. We spent more time resting than hiking in the first 3 hrs. It was absurd to anyone that had done much hiking before.

This wasnt because it was needed, it was because the inexperienced had the wrong expectations of what hiking would be like. They didnt expect to breathe hard for long periods of time, they wanted an easy stroll."

Which leads me to ask, how much preparation did your crew do? How many practice trips (at elevation) did your crew go on? Were people dropped from the crew if they missed too many mandatory outings? You can't just give folks a gear list to pack and show up at Philmont (or any multi-day, mid-to-high mileage trek) and expect it to all go swimmingly. I'm sure you know this, but it really sounds like you had no idea that you had inexperienced backpackers in your midst. Why not? Did your crew leader know that? If not, why not?

A big onus for making sure your crew is "efficient" (whatever you need that to mean) rests of the troop/crew getting themselves equipped, trained and ready to tackle the trek. And I would suggest that part of getting ready is having some open-heart discussions about what each member hopes to get out of the trip. Wouldn't it be better for you to have found out AT HOME that many of your crew weren't interested in hitting the trail before sunup? If you had known that (or seen that from practice outings) then you could have planned to do something else (journaling, photography, zen meditation :)) while the slow pokes were still getting up.

It sounds like you had a very frustrating time in large part because you were traveling with strangers. Am I wrong? Sorry if I am reading too much into your post's tone, but as a "hyper-efficient" type myself, I've been in these situations and it's always better for me to know ahead of time that things are going to be "sloppy"; gives me time to reset the bar lower and find opportunities to help out if possible.

Well, this is an interesting discussion. I also just returned from Philmont late last night. While it is a wonderful outdoor experience, and probably the closest thing to high adventure as 98% of the folks hiking will ever get, those things aren't the "most" important aspect of the trek. Learning to sacrifice one's own priorities for the benefit of the group, and this in a transformative way, is the real goal of the program. That is one of the overall goals of the BSA programs in general, in fact. Through First Class it is learning to finish what you start (the scout inculcates that life habit into himself by repeating the edge learning process for all the requirements). For Star, Life and Eagle, it is learning sacrificial leadership. In other words, putting your wishes and needs second to those of the group. There is great satisfaction in that, and great need in organizations of every sort, and society at large. Hiking and the outdoors is simply the means to achieve the aims of scouting. Simply attending the BSA Scoutmaster Leader Specific trainings (and Wood Badge to drive it home) would have been very helpful and illuminating for those posting negative comments about Philmont. Mark Anderson is doing his job, and yes, he has a stern personality – which is needed to hold the line in light of the broad spectrum of individuals who visit the ranch and have differing opinions and skill levels. Lets not forget the litigious nature of the society we live in either. So, to protect the individuals who simply do not have the depth of experience and to protect the BSA from legal issues these rigorous rules and regs are necessary.
In case anyone cares, we had an excellent trek, the youth (co-ed crew) all grew and had fun while at it. This was my sixth trek at Philmont (I have also been to the other BSA high adventure bases) and each crew's experience level has been different. Each crews expectations of their individual trek has been different. All grew in some way and overall enjoyed their experience at Philmont. Yes there are some frustrations, I like freezer bag cooking with cozies, or individual bowl re-hydrating, but the youth managed with the one pot method also. No big deal. As leaders the methods should not be that important, the journey for our youth is.

@ Kevin

Our crew trained with 11 mile days, with packs as heavy, or heavier, as we would carry at philmont, loaded with water weight, in hills. We really had no serious conditioning problems. Our crew was the lightest crew we saw there, in fact, it was the only light crew we saw.

I would say all of the kids besides my son, had a great time. My son was probably the only one really aggravated. Thats if you discount the fact that the rest of the kids, and a few adults, wanted to strangle one boy that kept singing ridiculous songs while we hiked, at the top of his lungs. Even after being asked to be quiet a few times.

My main points were:

1) its not always fun for experienced hikers to hike with inexperienced, or good shape with lesser shape. Despite what some think, its not easy to walk slower than your natural gait because someone is lagging, its annoying. Every crew member has a responsibility to get in shape, and a year to do it. Practice hikes do nothing to accomplish this, they need cardio. Philmont also scares many people into thinking they need to carry more water than is needed for 8 miles. I know from experiences, I can do 10 miles without taking a sip in the right conditions.

2) I think many of the programs are quite superficial, as you would expect in 1.5 hrs or so. They could be more intensive, and longer, and really impart knowledge on a topic. They are however, token programs , and are intended for processing as many people thru as possible, quality be damned. Programs, is not a good enough reason to consider going to Philmont.

3) The hiking isnt all that great either, unless you like walking on horse crap. Its also very crowded. They should avoid having to have crews walk on roads, in fact, thats almost unnacceptable in my book. (I also knew that going in as well)

4) I dont have any real complaints about trail food, it is what it is. Cafeteria food was pretty poor, but they had options, salad bar, peanut butter and jelly, etc.
But I will say the Chuck Wagon dinner, and especially the attempt at cobbler…was absolutely horrible. We would have rather had more trail food.

It misses the mark of what it COULD be by a wide margin. Sacrifices have been made to pump the maximum # of people thru per day, and it really shows.

I didnt go there as a kid, Im not nostalgic, I see it for what it actually is.

As I said, I cut them a lot of slack because they do give an enormous # of inexperienced people, their one and only semi-back country experience they will ever have, at least until they come back with their own kids.

I just came across this series of articles. First of all, thanks Tom for taking the time to express your thoughts and experiences. Your articles were well written and help convey the Philmont experience. I expect they will be helpful to people considering a trek.

I agree with the other posters who help remind us of two things:

1) It's not for everyone.
2) It's for the boys, not the adults.

We were just notified that we will have another trek in 2014, and I'm fortunate enough to be an adult advisor for the 3rd time.

Yes there are some frustrations at Philmont. But what part of our lives have no frustrations?

I think the criticisms of Philmont that are posted here are helpful to people who are considering a trek, because they help develop reasonable expectations of what to expect. What is is, and maybe more importantly, what it is not.

What I think Philmont does pretty well:
1) Gets lots of people into the mountains for 10 consecutive days.
2) Provides a balance of decent mountain hiking with activities that most boys don't get to do very often.
3) Provides an opportunity for a group of boys to get outdoors, experience some awesome scenery, learn to work together, have a bit of adversity and grow up a little bit.

Seeing the difference in the boys from the time they enter base camp to the time they return after their trek is really rewarding. They are stronger mentally and physically, more mature, more confident and have learned to work together under challenging circumstances. And that's what Philmont is really about. Not the gear, not the food and not the rules.

One final note. I'm glad I don't have to try to hire 1,000 seasonal workers to herd 20,000 mostly inexperienced youth through the camp each year. I'm pretty sure I would fail miserably at that.

Can't wait until we get there again.

Enjoyed this article very much.

Some 30 plus years ago, Mr. T Baskin took a group of puzzled law students out into the Idaho wilderness on a trek through the mountains surrounding the Snake river area. Where there are many memories, the one I contine to reflect on is when I pulled out my razor to dry shave, and TB took the ‘offending beast” and hurled the object deep into the nearest lake.  It was first lesson in Backpacking Light.    [Somewhat fortunately, I was still unable to grow any type of a recognizable beard.]

TB lit a small fire for the outdoors in many of us — mine lead to triathlons, Ironman Hawaii, Adventure Racing,trail running and  – of course –  more backpacking. West Coast Trail, Banff, Jasper, Pecos, and many others which have been trodden upon have only TB to blame.

I am curious as to whether the lad still backpacks, and whether he would have an interest in joining myself and a few others that take adventures with a pack on our back.  Some are short destination types (rim-to-rim in day upcoming this June), some are more experiential (6 days in the Sawtooth Wilderness this September), beautiful (John Muir in 10 days), or continental (GR 20 or TMB next year).

Tend to work with pretty light packs to keep the time easy on our somewhat aging bones.

Could be fun.

PJ