AT Nordic Ski Systems: Discovering the Best of Backcountry Nordic and Alpine Touring Systems Through Hybridization

Good project Ryan.

The latest generation of tech race and race-ish boots are quite amazing. The warmth and waterproofing advantages are enormous, especially for multiday stuff in crappy conditions. My own objections to the system, and continued use of 3 pin bindings and duckbill boots for nordic touring, are twofold. First, the lack of metatarsal bend in the boot and any friction in the binding system results in sub-optimal kick during a diagonal stride. I'd spitball a 30-40% reduction, average, depending on conditions. Obviously, not so relevant when breaking trail. Second, hiking and doing camp chores in plastic boots, even heavily rockered, short BSL race boots, sucks. My favorite routes over on the east side of the divide always seem to feature a decent amount of hiking in wind scoured areas.

"but what can compare with the all-too-occasional grace and elegance of fluent telemarking?"

As a longtime fluent, graceful, and elegant backcountry telemarker who just this year switched to Tech gear, at first I asked the same question. I missed the telemark. However, after a few days of skiing yet more gracefully, elegantly, and fluently both uphill and down, I am a convert to this new religion. Lost many pounds from my feet, and can ski much farther without stopping, due to greater efficiency. I hope my life of skiing has been thus extended many years.

"hiking and doing camp chores in plastic boots, even heavily rockered, short BSL race boots, sucks."

I'm using the La Sportiva Sideral boots, lightweight nylon mostly with a little bit of carbon, short rockered soles, freely pivoting cuffs. Super comfortable. Uphill, like comfy house slippers. Downhill, like alpine boots. Walking, like hiking boots. And they're warm. Walking in my old duckbill telemark boots was intolerable, though they were comfortable for skiing.

Dave's point about diagonal stride is valid. Also, the lack of resistance at the toe when in touring mode can be annoying at times in deep snow maneuvers. Not perfect.

"Excellent. I've been pondering something similar, just a bit more powder capable. I'm thinking Voile Vector BC skis (fishscales, 117-94-107, 6 lbs) and up a level for boot stiffness."

Thumbs up, Dan. I've been thinking of adding the Vector BCs with a set of machine screw inserts so I can transfer bindings from ski to ski. Skins in rolling low angle terrain are a total pain, as Ryan notes. With the Vector BCs you could get down most anything in most any conditions, if you have to.

Thanks for sharing your setup with us, Ryan. I’m still trying to strike a good balance with my equipment for at the resort and in the backcountry. I unfortunately need beefy gear due to my style of skiing. I also have feet like a duck, so trying on a wide variety of AT boots is a must for me. The problem is finding them in-stock at retail stores.

“As I get older, I find myself needing steep and deep less and less”
Quite the opposite here. I don’t think I’ll ever get sick of ripping huge powder lines!

I haven't kept up with Nordic bindings since moving to Nevada in 2004. Interesting AT setup you have. I'll have to read this a few times to understand the combos.

My track skis use NNN bindings and either racing shoes or touring boots.

My BC touring skis are Asnes Combat Combi (Norwegian Army skis) and releasable Voile' bindings W/3 pin heavy duty plates.

BC boots are old Vasque leather W/ vibram soles and SCARPA T3 plastic tele boots.

Tele skis are Atomic TM 22 195 cm and the same Voile' releasable bindings

So far this setup has worked and I don't plan to change unless somebody gives me a pair of NTN releasable bindings. ;o)

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NOTE: After reading the comments here I noticed that nobody but me has mentioned RELEASABLE BINDINGS!. C'mon, BC skiing ain't like skiing on-piste groomers. Only the true AT bindings have release (or the NTN bindings).
Suffering a torn ACL, tib-fib fracture, etc. 20 miles from the road quickly becomes a big problem for timely evacuation.

I remember looking into the lighter AT race boots some time ago. One major issue I found was that the lighter (i.e. more race-oriented the boot), the narrower and more uncomfortable they were. I have wide feet, and it would seem that race gear manufacturers assume that if you are going to be racing in them, you are probably willing to sacrifice some all-day comfort in exchange for lighter weight. Not only that, but the liners get thinner as well, which means that there is little room, if any to get more space from a thermo-moldable liner.

Tim, if you want steep and deep capable check out the Voile Charger BC's. They're basically a fishscale version of the Rossi S7's. Pair that up with some Dynafit bindings and decent stiffness boots and you've got a beefy freeride setup that you can still do some big tours with.

Thanks for sharing your setup and progression, Ryan.

To quote Damien's 2013 article: "With the trends in lightweight alpine touring moving toward lighter and more flexible boots, it would be nice to see this theme trickle down more to the Tele market."

Since I learned to ski on downhill tele gear, alpine turns feel really awkward to me, so I am really hoping for tele boots/bindings catching up with skis and AT boots/bindings. Having poked fun at "rando commandos" too much in the past is apparently making me eat snow now.

As demonstrated by some, an AT Nordic setup can be lightened even further if you consider some of the "BC Classic" skis on the market, such as the Madshus line (Glittertind & Voss) which features a choice between sintered and waxless bases. I prefer to go with a sintered base for the increased glide performance it provides, but this requires attention to details regarding the snow and temperature trends, which can get complicated if you are out on a multi-day trip in variable snow conditions. Then of course there's the wax you would need to bring along. The problem with using TLT bindings on the Glittertind or Voss rests in the heel piece, which I've heard is too big to mount on these narrow skis (~50mm waist). No heel lock means less weight, but is significantly less secure on the downhill.

But that setup (Glittertind w/ Dynafit toe piece + hacked up TLT boot) has been consistently winning the Alaska Mountain Wilderness Ski Classic for the past few years….although as most of you know, the skier has a lot more influence than the skis themselves. That said, one has to acknowledge the significant touring advantage with an AT Nordic setup.

"The problem with using TLT bindings on the Glittertind or Voss rests in the heel piece, which I've heard is too big to mount on these narrow skis (~50mm waist)."
— I have no idea what the max mounting pattern width is for those skis, but the Left<>Right hole spacing for most AT race bindings is 25mm, and the Plum 135/145 is even narrower at 20.5mm. (Dynafit Low Tech race and Speed Superlight are both 23mm.)

Serge, there probably is a lot to be said for light skis and fast, full-ish coverage skins in mixed terrain. Most of us probably don't have good enough technique and fitness to maximize the grip of scales or wax in that terrain.

Heel piece retention is an interesting issue in nordic skis. I'm thinking of my favorite 2007-2010 S Bound models, which have hollow areas running parallel with the long axis of the ski back where the heel piece would go. If anything, narrow 4 and 3 screw arrangements would exacerbate this.