ZenBivy – the newcomer that’s gaining traction

[kyle p]

I just measured my Katabatic Flex 15 6’. It’s listed as 54 inches wide. In reality it’s barely 50 inches. It says on the website that it can vary by 2%. That is more than 2%. I imagine most listed measurements are a bit of an exaggeration.

[George H]

Kyle: this is obv pretty frustrating, but a pervasive cottage quilt problem I heard. Higher loft ie warmer products likely shrink more even.

 

[Jerry Adams]

if the fabric was 54 inches wide, but when filled with down, the quilt could be 50 inches wide.  The extra 4 inches is used for the baffle width.

I made this mistake on a garment once.

Maybe that’s their problem.  If so, they need to spec the garment width, not the fabric width.

[Terran Terran]

Actual width measurement of a ZB large, at the collar is just over 52”.
The testing was done at the dispersed camping area about 5 miles north of Nederland, Co.                                 The low was around 21*f. Inside the tent when I checked, it ranged around 27*.                                                     Participants were in their 20’s, 30’s, 40’s, and 60’s. I was the OG at 68. Three woman and three men.            ZB supplied 5 closed cell pads for each participant rated at R1.1, R5.5 total. Six 10* Light Beds.                        Starting at 10 p.m. with 5 pads, one pad was removed every hour until a single pad was remaining.  Each time we were asked to rate the cold on a scale of 10.  Ten being the coldest you’ve ever been. Mostly I found it took a few extra minutes to warm back up each time. Finally with a single pad the group started feeling cold. The men’s group still finding it tolerable. Rating it between 3 and 4. The women’s group decided to call it at that point. The cold was isolated to the part of the body that was touching the pad. Even with a R value of 2.2we were all fairly warm. Somewhat of a surprise.  The next step is testing the same pads with mannequins.
I found the hood very helpful. Laying flat or on either side , I could leave a mouth size opening. I found the hooks a little annoying, especially getting in and out. A minor degree of difficulty. At least for me. I felt a foot draft, however I realized later that I hadn’t clipped it together. I feel the quilt itself was very warm. I was very happy with it.

[Alex (he/him)]

Well, that sounds like absolute torture in the name of science! Thanks for the report, Terran!

[Greg Pehrson]

I found the hooks a little annoying, especially getting in and out.

I like to connect all the hooks on one side (along my back), and leave the top 2 or 3 hooks undone on the other side (the side I’m facing), to make it easy to exit, then I just snug the quilt around me. I’m usually a rotisserie side-belly sleeper, but I find with the ZenBivy I usually stay on one side all night.

[Terran Terran]

I have to give credit to Steven. He had everything well under control with an insulated tent for emergency or if somebody bailed out.. They had a propane heater in it, but turned it off due to moisture buildup. Propane will do that.
My hubs weren’t locking on my truck. There was an uphill lefthand turn getting out of camp. I slid out and ended up backing into a tree.  Even with tracks, I couldn’t get traction. Steve and his assistant Kyle got back there and pushed me sideways and got me away from the tree. I was finally able to get a better run at and slid my way around. Then they followed me out. I really have to compliment them. Real people. Real nice group.
I was never uncomfortable. I brought my hot stove and some eco logs and kept that going until they started a fire. The pads weren’t comfortable. It’s been awhile since I’ve gone without an air mattress. The question did arise if ccf pads are underrated? The results were rather surprising with one pad still being tolerable for most.
As I get older, I get more concerned. Knowing there are some things that I used to, that I can no longer do. Sleeping out in below freezing weather, while slowly decreasing my insulation, under a controlled environment, was a great opportunity. For that, they gave me a quilt with the sheet, and a pillow. I also got a set of thermal. I need a pad though. It tends to slide on my Thermarest.

[Bill Budney]

Sounds like a great test and fun meeting. Will we see you in the video?

The question did arise if CCF pads are underrated?

I have sometimes wondered the same thing. There is a surprising number of people who sleep on them in 3-season conditions either because they are light (especially if you shorten them), cheap, and rugged. Many use a single layer of CCF as backup in case of inflatable failure. My first Thermarest self-inflating pad could not have been much warmer, and it was fine in the 20’s (F). Exped says that R=3 is sufficient in 3-season conditions.

It is possible that we have been somewhat spoiled by the popularity of lightweight R=5 inflatable pads. They are nice, but perhaps not entirely necessary until the temperature dips lower?

In any case, your experience is worth noting. Thanks for the report!

[Terran Terran]

I did try leaving a couple hooks undone and was able to tuck it under. I am a side sleeper, but I do switch sides which made tucking in a bit more difficult. I found it easiest to just slide in and out.  I thought of using a bit of elastic cord to extend them. It was new to me. I don’t think it’s a big deal.

I got colder lying on my back. My torso took the chill rather than my arm. Switching sides, I’d warm up.

Hopefully they dress up the video a bit. I’m the old guy.

[Link .]

2017 post NEW quilt / pad interface from ZENBIVY .

[Justin W]

I’ve found that sewing a truly UL, very tightly woven/highly wind resistant fabric to the bottom of a quilt helps a lot with drafts in winter like conditions, without adding much weight and bulk. I got tired of straps etc.

[Jerry Adams]

same here – fabric on bottom keeps out drafts.  I think that’s better than straps, but I’ve never used straps so that’s just a guess.

[Terran Terran]

From their e-mail.

Code:  BETTER30   (Quilts). or    BETTER35  (mattresses). I think everything’s on sale. If one code doesn’t work, try the other.

[talagnu]

wouldn’t rolling over on your side create a cold spot on the uninsulated side of quilt-bag? and preventing the quilt from shifting would require straps to hold it onto a pad? so back to square one, but with less versatility

[Justin W]

“wouldn’t rolling over on your side create a cold spot on the uninsulated side of quilt-bag? and preventing the quilt from shifting would require straps to hold it onto a pad? so back to square one, but with less versatility.”

  In my case, I use the bottom layer of fabric to hold the quilt in place some. It is not perfect, but a very wind resistant fabric bottom doesn’t allow the built up hot air to just instantly exchange with the ambient cold air. Given some time it certainly will, but by then, you’ve usually corrected for that. I don’t tend to sleep super well with any system while camping, and so when I’m tossing and turning, I’m often slightly awake during that and consciously pulling the bottom fabric together under me.

If you sleep really well and soundly while camping, and want a set and forget system, then yes straps and the like are slightly better.  But I’ve tried both, and I came to prefer the ease and quickness of the bottom fabric layer.  And when there is wind involved, the fabric bottom works a bit better if you are a tosser and turner like me. It is rare for me to sleep in a fully enclosed tent. I’m usually either in a tarp, a tarp tent, or the like, and so I tend to get more exposed to wind and/or cross currents, and that is where the bottom layer of very wind resistant fabric tends to work better (again, if one is a tosser and turner type sleeper).

[Justin W]

I should note that in very cold weather, like near 0* F and colder, I use a very light down sleeping bag in combo with (and under) a thick down quilt with fabric bottom.  These are short trips though.  If I was to do longer trips in such conditions (I haven’t so far), I would probably need an over synthetic quilt to help move moisture out of the thick down quilt.

[Jerry Adams]

I have fabric on the bottom, then my pad on top of that.  Then, when I roll around the sides of the quilt stay against the pad so there’s no gap with no insulation

Big Agnes made something like that, I think, but there’s was not lightweight

[Justin W]

Hi Jerry, yeah, I’ve used it like that as well and that does keep it pretty well centered.

 

[Terran Terran]

Sounds like a heavier and bulkier way around a strap. The ZB sheet fits like a bottom sheet, but wraps around the top and bottom a little more with a drawstring as well as strap in the middle. It wraps up the side of the quilt, maybe 10”, so it keeps the quilt wrapped around your sides with no cold spots. It also allows for ventilation for warmer nights, increasing the quilt’s usefulness . While increasing weight, it allows for a narrower quilt. Not to mention the hood. It’s nice having a sheet on top, against the skin. It keeps the pad cleaner. Easier to wash. A bit more questionable is I have a feeling that a sheet over a dimpled pad would trap more air, increasing the r-value and eliminating cold spots.

[Jerry Adams]

If you had fabric on the bottom rather than straps

the fabric would be 20″ x 72″ = 1.1 yd2 = 0.8 ounces for 0.7 oz/yd2 fabric

I suspect straps would weigh about the same

or, if you go “big agnes” and have a layer of fabric below your pad, and a layer of fabric above = 1.6 ounces

[Terran Terran]

Ordered and received the Flex pad to complete the set. Now I’ll find out how good their return policy is. It’s about 2.5” thick, but it’s dimpled with opposing dimples. It’s actually about 2” thick. Inflated, it’s actually about 24” wide. I think a little narrower than my old Exped. Just enough for my elbows to slide off.  Basically I find it needs to be aired all the way up with very little room for adjustment. Perhaps for a lighter person, it’d be fine. Nice fabric. Not for me.

[Terran Terran]

ZB got back to me fairly quickly with a return authorization with me paying for shipping. I did save nearly $80 on it. I decided to keep it. Sales would be over by the time I bought another one.
It needs to be almost fully inflated with little room for adjustment. It’s more comfortable then my NeoAir that I’m replacing. With the sheet attached, my arms don’t fall off. I can make it work. All together the whole system works very well.
The hood comes down to the bottom of my chin, if I don’t use the pillow. Otherwise, it barely comes down to my nose. Taking the plastic insert out of the pillow and placing it under the sheet solved that issue. The quilt comes up to the bottom the hood and I’m completely covered, opening it just a little to breath. The pillow has a down insert that fits inside the hood. Then I added one I had from I think Feathered Friends. I don’t know how well the sheet would have fit with the pillow underneath had it been a thicker pad. Some nuances, but overall very comfortable. Very warm.

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