Wonderland Trail….

[Brad Rogers]

So I was talking to an old hiking body of mine the other day and he mentioned he be interested in doing the Wonderland Trail this summer.  It’s a little different than what I normally do, though I did do the Teton Crest Trail a few years back.    I did watch a few videos and couldn’t believe the campsites with tents virtually touching each other.  Are the campsites really that close?    Will I be disappointed with the campsites.   Will it be too much tree cover for my liking – like backpacking in the Great Smokey Mountain National Park near home?   Not that that’s bad, but I’d hate to fly all the way across the country to spend most of the time hiking in scenery that looks like I’m two hours from home.

[jscott]

Tree cover: no, you won’t spend most of your time in trees. I worried that I’d get tired of the mountain. Not at all. You’ll be constantly going in and out of varied terrain and river settings, with a lot of alpine meadows as well. the profile of the mountain keeps changing.

You will not once think that you’re in Smokey Mountain NP.

Camping is highly regulated, so it’s not possible to be off on your own. I’ve only done a portion of the trail, but campsites weren’t as crowded as you describe.

For more solitude, you might look into hiking around Glacier Peak wilderness. Another huge volcano that dominates the landscape.

Others with more extensive experience will be along soon to say more.

[DWR D]

Campsites ‘that close’? Er… maybe define ‘that close’ ?

They are close. But if you get to camp early you will have the pic of the ones with the most privacy. Basically, it’s an amazing hike, but the camps are not the attraction. And, no, you are not always in the trees. The trail goes up, down, up, down traversing the canyons from treed canyon bottoms to alpine ridges between with great views. Pick the high camps with the better views. But… remember that weather can be a MAJOR factor on Mt. Rainier… some people have hiked the entire 95 miles in the clouds and never got a view of the mountain :(((  So pick you time of year wisely and watch the weather. Personally, if it got close to my permit time and the forecast was for a week of rain, I think I would cancel. Between the clouds blocking views and the mud, it would not be my kind of fun…

[Brad Rogers]

One of the videos I saw (where there were 4 in a party) the tents were bunched together and pretty much could have shared a tent stake – apparently they’re not all that close – I need to watch some more videos.

When we did the Teton Crest Trail the first two camping “zones” left us with great camping areas.  I’m sure there were other people around but we didn’t see or hear anyone camping.  The last campsite – I think it was Marion Lake had 4 designated camping spots for four groups and from my shelter I was literally looking into two sites with other groups I could have a conversation with them from my mid.

It was otherwise a beautiful location – but the campsites seemed cramped and overused – bare dirt that turned into a mud pit when it rained that night, and made me realize why I don’t hike in areas with designated campsites often – though I do realize in high use areas why they have to do it.

My typical trips out west are high alpine – and often largely off trail – WRHR, SSHR, etc and typically there’s probably not anyone camping within several miles of me.   When I did the Teton Crest Trail in ’21 I was put off by a few areas – the ironically named Lake “Solitude” that probably had 50 people there – that I could see, but most of the time on trail other groups weren’t a concern.

Whatever time I hike, I’ll have to plan my week well in advance and with a week off of work and plane tickets (I assume to Seattle) – I’ll pretty much be stuck hiking it no matter the weather – as if I cancel last minute, I just won’t be able to get a hiking trip out west in next year.

I’ve got kids playing school sports that start in early August.  Would the mosquitos be bad in July or the first week of August?   Should I just miss their games and try it in late August or September when I normally prefer to do my out west trip due to the bugs?

[Brad Rogers]

Also I assume Seattle would be the easiest and cheapest place to fly into from Atlanta – correct me if I’m wrong.  The plan would be to rent a car there and drive to the trailhead – is there any trailhead that is preferred?  Are there any that should be avoided or would increase our chances of getting lottery permits?   I assume clockwise to counterclockwise doesn’t matter.

I normally plan my camping on my hiking – i.e. just whenever I need to stop or wherever I need the campsite to be – I assume the sites are all virtually interchangeable, but any sites that are particularly good that you recommend staying at if I can make the mileages work (and of course the permits)?  Any to specifically avoid if possible?

I need to do some more research on the lottery process to see how that works.

We should have a group of two – no food caches – thinking a six day itinerary to soak it in.

[Tom M]

Brad,

Mike and I did this in the fall of 2020 https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/wonderland-trail-in-4-days/

The permits are gonna be your biggest hurdle especially at peak season. Our campsites were not crowded because we were hitting it after labor day, start of covid, and a big wildfire that was blanketing the area in smoke. Hopefully you find some helpful information in mikes trip report.

[DWR D]

Brad… you would do well to just give up your idea of how you like to camp away from people… this hike is not that… just let that go. This is not a wilderness hike… it is a glorious circumnavigation of an amazing mountain with amazing views… that is heavily used. In many areas you will be encountering day hikers… and sometimes lots of them. Re your referenced video… yes 4 tents would be a problem… the sites are small… 3 tents would be very tight in some sites.

No, the camps are not equal. Some are MUCH MUCH MUCH better than others. But, the better sites could be harder to get if you are late in the lottery. Most people hike clockwise… it’s the preferred direction as the climbs are less demanding… and may be better to be hiking with the flow instead of against the flow. One of the better places to start is Mowich Lake. Get this book and read it carefully: “Hiking the Wonderland Trail” by Tami Asars  I understand about set vacations, but still, if the forecast is for a week of rain, I would have an alternate hike I could divert to… but that’s me… some people like to push thru no matter what. Six days is pretty short. I have done the hike twice and both times took 10 hiking days… along the way I encountered many who were doing it in 7 days and wished they had taken 10. On the other hand, there are some that run it in 3 days. I would recommend as many days as you can arrange… it’s not a hike you want to get over with as soon as you can…

Have fun…

[DWR D]

Oh… I would avoid camping at Mowich Lake (it’s a former parking lot with a lot of day hikers milling about and the tent platforms are crushed gravel), avoid White River (it’s a section of a car camp), and maybe avoid Sunrise Camp as it is so close to the road that you get a lot of day hikers and overnighters with kids… but if you do camp at Sunrise try to make it a week day to avoid the weekenders. Best camps (and hardest to get): Summerland, Klapatche Park, and Golden Lakes

[Manfred]

I hike the complete loop last year clockwise from Movich Lake in 6 days and this year counter-clockwise from Sunrise in 7 days. I don’t think you will be disappointed in the scenery. The campsites are for sure tight. The individual sites are not too close together. Usually there are 4-5 individual sites in a camp and it’s first-come-first-served. Usually there is also a group site for parties of 6 and more. How parties of 5 fit into an individual site is a riddle to me. May be a family with 3 small kids staying in one tent. If your party has to pitch three or more tents in an individual site, the tents will more often then not touch. Don’t let that deter you from going though. It’s beautiful out there in the right weather with fantastic views.

[Brad Rogers]

We should just have two tents – probably an X-Mid 1P and a Duomid so hopefully we’ll be OK.

I assume a Caldera Cone is an approved stove in the park.

[DWR D]

“I assume a Caldera Cone is an approved stove in the park.”

Probably best to ask the park rangers about that… (sometime closer to your hike as policies can change)… I have found the rangers to be very helpful in the past… If they have a big winter, you may also be wanting to ask them about conditions… after a big winter it can take them some time to clear downed trees and reestablish bridges over rivers…

[DWR D]

Couple of other things come to my mind about the Wonderland… few of the camps are right close to water… some you need to walk maybe a quarter or a mile or so for water… so helpful to take some extra water bottles or bladders to minimize the trips for water…

Mosquitoes: just assume they will be bad… they may not be, but best to be prepared as Rainier has a reputation for them. I treated my cloths with Permethrin and had no problem… (other than lost brain cells:)

Time… if you can add a day or two, there are some interesting side trip hikes along the way that can be done…

[Tom M]

10 days for this trip would be excruciatingly slow for my taste. We did it in 4 days counter-clockwise, but we enjoyed the journey more than sitting in a crowded camp. I would recommend doing the spray park alternate more vert but well worth the views.

[Jeffs Eleven]

I did it from mowich counter-clockwise in 7. Wish I would have taken longer. But really if I did it again, considering the campsites are just sleeping sites, not really the destination, I recommend taking your time on the hiking part and get to camp at sleepy time. Maybe cook dinner away from camp and just get to camp at dusk and pitch and crawl in. We ended up sitting at our camp too tired to do much exploring near camp and we just sat and swatted flies ‘til bedtime.  So IMO take your time hiking and chilling at the amazing places you come across and get to camp at bedtime.

I know of people who have done it in 3 or 4… that ain’t us… if it were flat I could barely do it in 3. (Hint: it ain’t flat) 10 would be cool for side trail hiking, but seems too long for just the wonderland proper… like longer than it needs to be.

[jscott]

This is not an easy hike by the majority of folks’ standards. It involves a great amount of elevation gain and loss each day. Plus, there are often unplanned obstacles to the trail…as in, bridges that are out, which you’ll be advised of ahead of time. On my trip, a twenty yards long section of trail had collapsed, leaving a chasm hundreds of feet down to river. It was manageable, but involved a lot of clinging to brush handholds to traverse. And so on.

Four days seems astonishing to me. I guess it depends on how one wants to approach a hike. 7 days seems more my style, and that wouldn’t include much lollygagging around. But I’m a slow hiker, I guess. Still, 7 days seems typical for most, and even then, it’s a strenuous workout.

[Bonzo]

I’m kind of lucky; I live about an hour from Rainier, now, and I get to look at her every day…and that never gets old.  Here are my three cents’ worth of input, in no particular order:

• The park itself and any of the popular routes – and that includes everything from the Wonderland circuit to the DC summit route – are heavily trafficked; if you’re looking for less activity or used to that kind of scene, there’s very little way to find it during the popular season.  I’m not super-familiar with Wonderland, but if I was going to do that route (and I’d love to) I would do everything possible to de-synchronize my trip from that of everyone else.
• Bugs can definitely be a problem in the summer, although I didn’t see many of them this past year (but we have a lot of them right now, perversely).  September would be a good time to go; it’s cool, the leaves may be starting to show some color, and there’s still plenty of daylight…and the summer crowd will have dissipated during the weeks.  On weekends the trailheads will always be busy, even when winter hits.
• Seattle is probably your best flight option; we usually go SeaTac to RDU when we head back east, because Alaska has a good non-stop route that’s always on time.  I haven’t flown into Portland, yet, because prices never match the ones at SeaTac.
• Don’t speed-hike this one; the Rainier massif is constantly changing, and you need to give yourself time to see it.  There’s a ton of wildlife (watch out for curious mountain goats) to encounter, and just so, so much beauty.  Every once in awhile, I wander up to Paradise or Sunrise and take a stroll somewhere: it’s amazing, watching lenticular clouds build on the summit, and seeing avalanches calving off Little Tahoma or the Emmons (unless you’re up there with them).  Do not rush.  Whatever time you think you need to truly enjoy yourself…add an extra day if you can possibly spare it.
• Be ready for the weather; be ready for serious weather.  Rainier is notorious for it; weather is the biggest make-or-break you’ll encounter, there.  Down low it’ll be rain and fog so thick that you can’t see the next trail marker; get above treeline and all bets are off.  Panhandle is the highest point (I think) and it’s something like 6700’…and this last season, there was still plenty of snow in a lot of places in July.  Always be ready for snow and ice when you’re near that mountain.  I don’t think you’ll need an axe and spikes unless you go adventuring, but definitely bring microspikes or something of that nature.

That’s all I can think of at the moment.  I’m not sure about my schedule next summer, but if I’m in the area I’ll be happy to give you a ride from SeaTac to the trailhead, or wherevs; that may be easier and cheaper than renting a car and parking it for several days.  At the very least I can buy you a beer down at Base Camp.

I’ll chime back in if I think of anything else…and feel free to reach out. 👍

[Link .]

“I assume a Caldera Cone is an approved stove in the park.”

The following items or activities are prohibited on the trails and in the backcountry of Mount Rainier National Park: Fire (white gas, iso-butane cartridge, alcohol stoves are okay. No bio-fuel stoves; i.e., those that burn twigs, sticks, cones, etc.)

This is the best site for the Wonderland Trial, HERE is just the the page for backcountry camps. You will see at the top of the page WONDERLAND TRAIL, hover over it and you will see a large dropdown bar for a huge amount of info, he was a BPL member many years ago and has done the Trail 35 times as of 2023, his blog is worth checking out also, he talks about numerous other hikes at Rainier , summiting peaks riding his bike (RAMROD (Ride Around Mt. Rainier in One Day), touted as a hard ride with 150 miles and 10,000 feet of climb), what he takes with him when doing the Wonderland etc. He has a contact page and can answer your questions on probably anything Wonderland and Mt. Rainier. Here is his Wonderland Trail: Complete Video Series enjoy.

[Link .]

Not what you are doing by any means but it might of  interest some people, his 2023 Wonderland trip in 3 days had a base weight of 3.6 pounds(he is 68 years young) you can see it here Wonderland Trail Basic Kit .

[Bonzo]

his 2023 Wonderland trip in 3 days had a base weight of 3.6 pounds

That’s an interesting kit.  I like his blanket solution, and even though a lot of the rest is lighter than I can carry due to my staggering amount of ineptitude, it really shows how much weight you can save by thinking through solutions that are custom-tailored to your specific conditions.  I wish I could trim my pack weight down to that level, too…but Ye Olde Injuries demand frames and support structures.

Thanks for those links; I’m going to give the rest of them a watch.  Looks like a really good resource, overall.

[Link .]

Ya Bonzo, I need a framed pack also but it it’s nice to see what others can do for some inspiration and ideas. I love checking out his site for all kinds of good info, I even have his Mt. Rainier, Wonderland Trail series on DVD  that I got from him years ago.

[Darryl C]

Consider joining the Facebook Wonderland trail Group and peruse the WTA.org site for more information.

 

Remainder of post is highly opinionated.

Campsites:  Campsites vary but the true backcountry camps are for the most part set up well and not too squeezed in.  Indian Bar is my favorite campsite anywhere and I first started back packing in 1971.  Last year mid-July I had the Yellow Cliffs campsite all to myself and Firecreek had one other group.   Two years earlier Maple Creek had one party and Nickle Creek had two including me.  Again mid-July.  South Mowich had two other groups.  Every time I have gone to pick up permits at Mt Rainier I have been able to change my itinerary.  Once I was able to do so via telephone from near Summerland mid trail.  Avoid at all costs Devils Dream it is the worst backcountry camp on the trail.

The Actual Trail:  I recommend going counterclockwise and since you’ll be coming from out of town starting at Longmire.  Having gone both directions for me the clear winner is counterclockwise.  The Wonderland trail from Devils Dream to Box Canyon is two stars out of five especially compared to the remainder of the trail.   From Longmire to the Cowlitz Divide you will be the trees most of the time and often near the road. The section from Cowlitz Divide to Summerland is almost entirely above the tree line and in early season can be miles of snow travel.  From Summerland the trail descends to the White River and then official trail winds its way up a wooded hillside to Sunrise.  A much better route heads up to Glacier Basin.  A short-day hike to or near the Inter Glacier here totally rocks!  From the Basin head up the Burrroughs back towards Sunrise to rejoin the main trail.  At Sunrise the Wonderland Train heads west towards the Winthrop Glacier.  My preferred choice is to head north to Berkely Park and follow the Northern Loop until it rejoins the Wonderland at the base of the Carbon Glacier.  If you have the time a short jaunt up Skyscraper Peak is nice. Do this over Fremont Lookout given the choice. The hike up to James Camp is the toughest gain on the trail and lacks views but at the top Windy Gap is great and so are the Yellow Cliffs.  After Yellow Cliffs it’s a short descent back to the Wonderland Trail. If you want to see the bottom of the Carbon glacier is a quick hike to the viewpoint.  Worth doing.  The “official” Wonderland Trail now climbs up Ipsut Creek to Mowich Lake.  This is entirely forested and unless you like forests it’s not that exciting, but the forest is nice.  I was just hiking there a couple weeks ago.  Early in the season the Carbon River bridge might be out and the river would be a non-trivial crossing.  I have backed off and made a long hike over Spray Park and then back down to Ipsut camp when the bridge was out.  Early in the year river crossings can be quite dangerous. That’s said I have only backed off once in many years of hiking there and I think I am conservative. The Spray Park variation is much more alpine and mostly above the tree line.  From Mowich Lake the trail doesn’t have many variants but if you have the time a quick jaunt up to Pyramid Peak would be a great experience.  After passing Henry’s Hunting Grounds the trail bcomes fairly mundane until Longmire.

Caches:  Rent a car and drop of your supplies starting at Carbon River station,  Sunrise (I think the caches might now be at White River but it’s still worth the short drive from there to Sunrise.  Drive to Paradise make a quick hike of the Skyline Trail and pick up your permit in Longmire.  Start the Wonderland the next day.

 

[Brad Rogers]

Thank you for all the responses and help thus far.

I think I could spend 8 days in the backcountry if I could start hiking Saturday morning – but I’m sure everyone wants to start Saturday morning!  I can do six days if I need to start on a weekday.   September is certainly an option and close to my general preferred time of late August- early September.  Of course I have kids playing fall school sports so I don’t have to miss anything if I’m done by early August. – lots of things to debate..

It sounds like my next step is to put my name in the drawing for the lottery before I do anything else as if I don’t get a favorable lottery spot, I just need to plan a different trip for this summer.   If I’m able to get a lottery spot, I’ll need to finalize what plans I want and have some backup itineraries as well.

If I get a permit, I’ll post my gear list, etc and get help and input on that – I don’t think I’ll need anything new and think my loadout will be a cross between my wet and humid Smokey Mountain kit, and my sun and bugs Rockies/Sierra kit, but getting my permit is goal number one.

I’ve been watching some videos and though it’s not my normal style trip it does look pretty amazing despite there being a substantial time below tree line.  I’m getting excited, though trying to remind myself that winning the permit lottery is sort of like winning the lottery.

[Brad Rogers]

Question about permits – If groups from 1 person through 5 people are on one permit, is there anything easier about getting a permit for 2 verses a permit for 4 people?

[DWR D]

No… if I understand your question… and if things haven’t changed in the past couple of years. A permit for the Wonderland is in the leader’s name and it allows for up to 5 people in one campsite… they don’t care if it is one person or 5 in that campsite… As I understand it, the system does not limit the number of people… it limits the number of parties/permits to correspond to the campsites available… basically, the limiting factor are the campsites…. Unless it has all changed in the past couple of years…

[Bonzo]

^ Same as the above, from what I was told just a few days ago when I started looking into this hike (because of this thread).  The limiting factor is the number of permits, which are capped to account for a maximum possible  number of people; since not all permits will be maxed out, the load is always below the target number.

I was planning on heading up to Paradise this coming week; I can ask at the gate and see if they have any info, or at the visitor center.  There’s usually a pile of rangers and mountain rescue to be had at the latter, and they always seem to know what’s up.

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