will 1.3 mm guylines be worth it to save weight?

[Bear In The Forest]

Now it looks right. I will buy a whole batch of different locks & lines and try out. Thanks!

[Jerry Adams]

If you type in lineloc, the BPL software substitutes that with a link to the rsbtr product, the lineloc 3.  Then, BPL gets paid a small amount by rsbtr for the advertising

maybe BPL only gets paid if someone clicks on the link or buys something

[dirtbag]

The yellow Z line is quit visible in the dark with head lamp on. It’s not UFO look at me obnoxious light up bright.. but it is most definitely 100% visible.  I use it on all of my tarps.  I use the orange reflect 1.3 Zline on my stakes so they stand out brighter for 2 reasons. From a distance I know to look for them in the dark and can find my tarp with no problem.. and if for some weird reason the get blown out and I need to look for them in the dark, easy to find.   I prefer not to use reflect guy lines on my tarps because there is no reason to stand out that visible during the night when I am sleeping.  No need to see my camp from 40 or 50 yards away.  Now in winter, my tent.. that will have the reflect guylines..

[Bear In The Forest]

Thats sounds great! , i will give them a shot.

[Alan W]

I’ve used Clam Cleat CL266 (Zpacks micro) and line Loc V for many years on many different tents and tarps.  I’ve had 3 storm related failures, and heavy thunderstorms are NOT a good time for guy-line failures.

Two failures were with 1.3 mm Zpacks cord.

In one failure, high loads from severe winds caused the teeth of the CL266 to cut into, shred, and sever completely the PET sheath on the 1.3 mm cord.  The Dyneema white core strands did not break, but they slipped through the CL266 all the way to tarp failure.

In a second failure, the 1.3 mm cord cut/tore through the plastic “bars” on a Line Loc V, again leading to cord slipping without breaking and causing shelter collapse during a severe storm.

Now, when I use a CL266, I use an unsheathed Dyneema cord with OD large enough to grip securely, and then I tie a slippery hitch to lock it down even more securely.

The 3rd failure occurred on a tent that has Line Loc V on the corner anchors originally fitted with 2 mm Lawson cord, which is of course overkill for the tensile strength needed.  Although neither the cord nor the Line Loc V failed mechanically, with high winds whipping every which direction, including very strong downdrafts, one massive downdraft in amongst all the other chaos caused the 2 mm cord to slip all the way to the stopper knot at end of cord.   This caused 20 nervous minutes while I maintained the tent envelope in a dry condition by using my knee as an anchor on the inside of the loose corner.

I compared cording to my Tarptent which also uses Line Loc V but with 2.5 mm that had not previously slipped; and I switched out to 2.5 mm Lawson cord on the tent that had corner cord slipping.

Happily, this combo of 2.5 mm with Line Loc V did not slip during a severe thunderstorm this past summer.  (Unhappily the storm was strong enough that a 9″ alum Tube Stake pulled loose despite a 20 lb rock on top of the stake.  Again, my knee held the envelop until the rain let up, and I then reset the stake — but using a 40+ lb rock.)

I’ve used the “Skurka” cord only method, but I have come back to Line Loc devices as more convenient especially when I am exhausted, have cold hands, am racing a storm during setup, etc.

TLDR:  After 3 storm failures, I’ve discarded combo of Line Locs plus smallest OD lines, especially sheathed lines such as the 1.3 mm Zpacks OD; I continue to used Line Locs for convenience; I use larger OD (>= 1.8 mm) unsheathed Dyneema plus slippery hitch with CL266 on longer lines; I accept the small weight penalty of using 2.5 mm cords where the length is quite short on the corners of my Tarptent and Durston X-mid having Line Loc V sewn into tent.

Agreed, I really like a bright yellow color or Lawson cord with reflective strands.

Of course, other folk have different “war stories” and experienced preferences.

[JCH]

After several experiences similar to Alan W’s with Linelok Vs I have decided they are “stupid light”. Replaced all of them on my XMid Pro with old-school Linelok 3s.  The (very) slight weight penalty is well worth the fuss free performance and reliable security.

Were I to routinely encounter strong winds, I go knots only. Different setups work for different people.

[Bear In The Forest]

Thank you for your response, Alan.

I’m definitely planning to use linelocks. If I understand correctly, Dyneema cord 1.8mm and larger (unsheathed) are more likely to work effectively, right?

[Alan W]

Yes, for me with the Clam Cleat CL266 (Zpacks Micro), I use the somewhat larger OD unsheated Dyneema to help the teeth bite deeper, and I add a snugged-up slippery hitch if bad winds possible.

Dyneema is super slick, as well known. Smaller OD Dyneema is more than strong enough, but too likely to slip in the CL266.

Adding a woven PET sheath (Zpacks 1.3 mm) stops the “normal” slipping in the CL266 —- until truly extreme and gusting winds hit and then the CL266 teeth bite too deeply and shred the sheath, which completely parts and allows the remaining Dyneema core strands to glide on past.

Only happened once after maybe > 100 prior nights, but results were more unpleasant than I care to repeat.

The Line Loc V is prone to be cut/torn by smallest OD cords. Happened for me with 1.3 mm, again in severe gusting wind.

Line Loc 3 is strong enough not to cut/tear with line OD needed just to “lock”, despite overkill on tensile.

Unfortunately, strongly whipping gusts can “shake” loose the “lock” with 2mm PET sheathed cord in Line Loc 3, even though the cord might not slip in a steady static pull of same max load.

On my Durston Xmid, the upwind corner slipped with extreme and chaotic wind using 2 mm sheathed.  I spent several subsequent trips experimenting with tied Dyneema instead, though without nipping the Line Locs off of tent. For me, this was too fiddly, too often at the wrong time.

So I changed the Xmid corners to 2.5 mm Lawson like my Tarptent, since corner cords are quite short and add small grams. The revised 2.5 mm did not slip in the Lineloc Lic 3 during a whipping storm that pulled out a 9″ stake overlaid with 20 lb rock.

What weather prevails in areas hiked? What tent/tarp? What is personal tolerance for getting wet and cold in middle of night? Ditto for iterating cord tensions with fiddly knots during setups on uneven ground? Ditto for 1-2 oz on total cord weight?  Choices.

[David Thomas]

Strength-wise, any of them are more than enough.  You could use the much smaller Dyneema / UHMWPE sold for large kites and be fine for strength.  But I find 1.3 mm and larger nicer for tying traditional knots (bowline, tautline, etc) and that’s not just for going to your tent stakes, but all the weird things you might do around a boulder, stump, or bunch of grass to affect an anchor.   Or use for clotheslines, securing a tarp as a rain shelter for your kitchen, and lashing sticks together into longer poles or in camp furniture.

I do like the reflective 1.5 mm for guy lines because 1) I trip over it less and 2) it’s surprising effective in seeing your tent from 50-100 m away after you’ve wandered off to poop in the middle of the night.

I feel your pain about ridiculous shipping charges – I’m in Alaska and many offers of “Free Shipping” from US shippers excludes us in the fine print.  We all have stories of $20 items with $80 shipping if they only use UPS which only has Second-Day Air to Alaska, no surface options.

How much do you need?  I’ve got a fair bit of 1.5 mm reflective line (medium blue with the silvery reflective threads woven in).  Where are you, the UK?  A “letter” is up to 1/4″ thick (6 mm) so that should be enough for a spiraled length of 1.5 mm taped down to cardstock on each side and it should be only a few dollars of postage.   I could also include some of my favorite emergency cordage, 130-pound-test Dacron halibut fishing line which I also bring 25 feet of (2 grams?) for the thinnest possible emergency shoelace or the thickest repair stitching for a critically stressed seam on a pack or shoe.

[JCH]

So I changed the Xmid corners to 2.5 mm Lawson like my Tarptent, since corner cords are quite short and add small grams.

Same.  The reflective Lawson cord is terrific.

[JG H]

“ I do like the reflective 1.5 mm for guy lines because 1) I trip over it less and 2) it’s surprising effective in seeing your tent from 50-100 m away after you’ve wandered off to poop in the middle of the night.”

⬆️ This!

Plus, if you hike in parks where campsites allow for multiple tents, your tent will be able to be seen at a distance by late-arriving backpackers so they’ll be less inclined to wander right up to your tent.

[Author]

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