Why are Vest style straps so comfortable?

[Murali C]

So, I recently bought a Yar Gear 38L mountain drifter and am amazed at how comfortable the straps are. These vest style straps have minimal cushioning compared to say a MLD Prophet. It seems like you want thicker straps for more comfort intuitively. But, the Yar gear vest style straps are extremely comfortable. Maybe the compact nature of the pack is helping. It is 11 inches wide and 5 inches deep which also seems perfect – at first I was skeptical and thought 5 inches may not be enough. But, it is actually great – keeping gear close to the back.

Other backpacks that have minimal straps are GG Murmur and Nashville Cutaway and vest style backpacks which seem to have minimal cushioning.

Are they comfortable because there is more ventilation and somehow that makes the carry better? No idea. Any thoughts folks?

(I don’t use sternum straps or hip belt)

[Dan]

I’m going to confess my ignorance, I don’t know what “vest style straps” means. Can you explain? Does it just refer to the absence of padding?  A particular shape?

[Link .]

You can get an explanation about the 2 different types Shoulder Strap vs Vest Harness – Six Moon Designs  they also give you the choice on several of their packs.

[Murali C]

Thanks Link. Have you used Vest style packs?

Dan – you can also look at a better picture here:

https://www.yargear.com/products/38l-mountain-drifter-ultra-400

3rd picture. It shows vest style straps. They typically have pockets for water bottles and other misc stuff – but, the key seems to be minimal cushioning, broad especially over your chest area and multiple sternum straps which creates multiple contact points and typically found on running packs like Ultimate Direction, Salomon packs. Another company that does it is nashvillepack.com – check out their packs. Palante also has its Joey packs.

 

[Link .]

Yes, I have a vest style pack and I love the way it fits and carries. I have the Six Moon Designs Swift V 49L that I got on sale this time last year.

[Matthew / BPL]

I have very limited experience with vest-style harnesses (just a couple hikes wearing a number from Little River Packs) but I was struck by how it felt connected to my chest and ribcage. My sense was that rather than rising directly on my shoulders the weight was connected to a much larger part of my body. The LRP pack connected the webbing under my arm in a V (or was it Z) shape which seemed to enhance this effect.

[Matthew / BPL]

Oh and I also tried a Mountainsmith Zerk for a while. I didn’t have as much of a sense of being connected so solidly with this pack. It may have just fit differently but I think it recall the webbing connected in a more traditional manner with a single run going to the bottom of the shoulder strap.

Murali, how does the webbing run on the Yar pack? I can’t tell for sure from the photos but I think it’s a single straight run.

[Murali C]

I couldn’t see what you meant by the V or Z for Little River Packs….not many good pictures of those packs around. I don’t think Yargear packs have those. He makes it in two sizes. And the actual torso length seems to be 2 inches bigger than what he says. So his 19 inch torso is actually 21ish or slightly smaller which works out for me great as I like the 21.5 inch MLD’s Large.

The straps do cover a bigger part of your chest and with the two sternum straps he provides, I think it does cover a larger part. But, perhaps Nashville packs may do a much better implementation as you can vary the size of the straps and they seem bigger in area. Only thing is they are much more expensive than Yargear packs. But, I like Yargear packs a lot…..compact, durable fabrics, each one is unique and very comfortable.

Almost all vest style manufacturers claim 25 lbs comfort rating and indicate 20 lbs for traditional S or J straps – and I guess I am trying to understand why there is a discrepancy in carry limits plus how comfortable they are compared to traditional backpacks. Maybe it has to do with the multiple points of contact – but, I do not use their sternum straps or hip belt – so those extra points of contact don’t apply to me.

[Murali C]

oh I think I know what you mean by the V…..the straps connect to two points on the pack from the bottom of the shoulder straps….Yargear does not do that. I think I have seen some packs do that.

[Kevin @ Seek Outside]

My best guess based on my personal testing is

1. Surface area

2. Rib cage , actually provides a little help minimizing the shoulder involvement

3. Conformance

I’ve always favored conformance , surface area and some lift or stability in all our designs. It ticks a lot of the same boxes.

As for perception .. yes people get hung up on perception of what works far too much … of course manufacturers spread to much marketing FUD as well ..so consumers probably have an increased sensitivity to things outside the tried and true norm.

We actually, did a fair amount of testing on Vest type and similar on our big packs before we ever released them. I have actually carried our packs with NO harness and 30 lbs for over 5 miles in testing … however those concepts get so far out of bounds that consumers would likely laugh.

In other words, I think sometimes brands spread to much BS around, which causes consumers to put their BS meters up .. and thus if it gets out of norm , it has a high degree of suspicion .. so brands are then afraid to take chances.

[Matthew / BPL]

Kevin, can you elaborate on conformance?

Murali, you’ve got it on the V/Z strap. Here’s how Yama does it:

[Kevin @ Seek Outside]

Less stiff fabrics conform for instance to your trap angle better, where a more padded and stiffer harness may not adapt as well. Due to the better conformance, you likely get better load distribution and can be a bit wider for even more load distribution .

[Iago Vazquez]

I have been using a Nashville Packs Cutaway for the last few months. My comfort limit with previous frameless packs was about 21 lbs. The maximum weight I managed to fit into the Cutaway was 29 lbs, and it felt just as good or better than 21 lbs on an MLD or ULA CDT. Perhaps it can carry more weight, but that’s as much as I was able to stash into it. As others mentioned, the pack really engaged my whole upper body, which is probably why I didn’t end up with the typical stain I feel in my neck and shoulders with frameless packs in the 21 lbs range or higher.

 

[Murali C]

Hey Iago – did you use the 4 sternum straps and the hip belt? How many miles did you carry such a load for?

Kevin – interesting to know that you considered vest straps for your backpacks!

Mathew – thanks for the Yama pictures…

[Iago Vazquez]

Hi Murali,

I used the double sternum straps, one elastic one static. I did not use the hipbelt. I prefer to not use hipbelts with frameless packs, which may also be the reason why I cannot really go much over 20 lbs with J or S straps with MLD or ULA

That camp was six miles from the trailhead. Slow family pace. I experienced some mild soreness after 2.5 hours, but nothing that a quick 5 minute break to purify water did not solve. No upper body pain at all either there or back. I weighted the pack as I was leaving home with the typical baggage scale. Overpacked it with extra meals knowing that I could move as much as needed to my wife’s pack if it became unbearable, who brought an oversized framed pack for that purpose.

[Matthew / BPL]

Kevin, thanks for explaining. That makes perfect sense.

[HkNewman]

Width wise, anytime the load can get spread across a wider surface it’s going to be more comfortable .. up to the point where there’s too much fabric with added weight.  On the other end of the spectrum, having a thin shoulder strap, like the S2S packable travel pack that made BPLs list, gets uncomfortable.

Maybe it’s just my aging shoulders, but there’s also the fact the shoulder joint is relatively unstable vs the hip joint.  Think the second sternum strap could assist here, though it’s primary purpose is “bounce” control,

The SMD founder said a vest-like harness helped his regular backpacking after back problems.  One issue may be breathability, but remembering the Army used to have a load bearing mesh vest.  Maybe some sort of open air mesh could be incorporated?

[Murali C]

Nice pictures Iago – the amount over your shoulders is insane for a frameless:-)

The SMD literature says that with vest straps, the core also provides some load bearing capabilities and adds to the additional load carrying capabilities of vest straps….

[Iago Vazquez]

Yes, Murali. I was sure that collar wasn’t going to make it 10 minutes, particularly with the single straps. But it held no problem the whole hike. I was also expecting to find the pack tippy, but it wasn’t an issue at all.

I was looking at my notes. With stops for pictures and water and snacks, it took us 4 hrs and 15 minutes to reach camp. Again, family hike, not a race. But I kept the pack on straight for the first 3.5 hours, until I took it out to filter water. That is when I started to notice some soreness. The five minute water filtering break was enough to go the next 45 minutes without further pain or discomfort. I remember a 23 pound trek on a Granite Gear Virga using a folded foam pad, and it just was an experience that I have never cared to repeat.

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