What is Considered Light in the Winter?

[Bob Kerner]

Without sacrificing safety, what is considered “light” in terms of base weight for winter camping?

With minimal work, I’ve reduced my three season BW to about 12 pounds. By minimal I mean not packing extras and spending very few dollars on replacing some items with lighter ones. I’m wondering how much work is needed to accomplish the same for winter travel.

I’m presently in the NY high peaks day hiking with my family. We’ve encountered a number of multi-night hikers and the vast majority are carrying huge packs. One guy’s pack was easily 5 feet tall with a bunch of stuff stacked atop the lid. And there was the occasional outlier with a standard 40l pack who looked like they were having a better time!

 

[Edward John M]

Bob I hope somebody answers as I have asked this question myself. I get the impression that it is too minimum temperature dependent for any one answer tho.

But my sleeping gear alone weighs more than your 3-season base load, but I am setting up  for -55C worst case scenario and your target area may be a lot warmer than that

[BlackHatGuy]

There simply is no one answer for this question (and all such questions that get asked here) as it depends on what temps/conditions your ‘winter’ is, whether you run/sleep hot, cold or somewhere in the middle, etc. etc.

For many winter conditions, including blowing snow, you want a bag/quilt that will keep you warm overnight, a shelter than can block blowing wind/snow, sufficiently warm clothing to hike in without overheating, sufficiently warm clothing for breaks during the day and for hanging around camp/cooking dinner at the end of the day, and clothing sufficient for any adverse weather, including rain/sleet/snow.

Sufficiently warm is going to be different for different people, requiring either a heavier jacket or bag, etc. for those who run cold, and lighter stuff for those who run warm/hot.

Down is generally lighter than synthetic for the same warmth, and generally more expensive too.

In other words, all stuff you probably already know, really, you just have to get out in the winter to find what works for you.

[Nick Gatel]

I’ll simplify Doug’s excellent answer. Whatever keeps YOU warm, dry and safe in the conditions and terrain you pick to travel. Whatever the gear weighs, is what it weighs.

[James Marco]

EHP? Yup, been there, done that. Most of the rules up there are designed to keep you safe enough without damaging the environment. However, the number of people up there has turned it into a circus. Anyway…another story…

There are soo many differences in personal heat generation/tolerance and differences in the conditions that can remove heat from your body, that it is not really possible to define a set weight range for a pack. I have  been up there on winter days not needing spikes/snowshoes and walking around feeling like a fool on a 50F day with a 40pound pack in January. I agree with both Doug and Nick, plan on the worst, hope for the best and you will likely be OK.

You need a good -20 sleeping bag/pads, a good shelter (lean-to’s are often poor), a good stove, plenty of food and fuel, extra cloths (at least three sets) and extra time (as in extra days) to do any hiking up there in the winter. You need to fiddle with gear all the time, every 5-10 minutes you should check how hot or how cold you feel and adjust as needed. DO NOT get sweaty. COOL is better than warm. Winds are a real danger. Being wet is worse.

Things do not dry out well in the winter. Ice haze/fog, will blind you, trail markers/cairns get buried, There are a few iron deposits up there, compasses are not always accurate. GPS often fails to locate your position or, worse, locates you on the next mountain over. Paper maps turn to mush. Winter is NOT the time to get familiar with the area. Plan for contingencies and bail-outs. Travel in groups or with someone that has been up there in winter. Don’t be afraid of looking like a fool with a 45pound pack. FAR better than being dead from not being prepared. Do not be afraid to ask for help. There are LOTS of people around.

 

[Tipi Walter]

My mantra is:  Warmth comes with Weight.

[Edward John M]

If the margin of safety is 15 to 20 degrees colder than the average or even simply 5 degrees colder than the area record the warmth needed can get heavy fast I have discovered, hence my post above.

 

[Bob Kerner]

Thanks for the responses. I’m pretty comfortable with the basics of winter back country travel, more importantly I know my limitations. I was just wondering if there was an agreed upon target weight and based on the responses, I get that there isn’t; safety comes first.

Had I camped out the past days, I would have been cold the first night as it was unseasonably cold up here on Thursday. Today, on the other hand, I was warm ( almost sweating) with just two light wool base layers and a beanie. Yes, things change on a dime, better to carry the warmth and not need it than the other way around.

James: yes there are a lot of people up her now, much more than I recall the last time I visited during the Clinton administration! We saw two parties of 12+ with a Canadian outfitter that arrived in big vans and trailers. Perfectly delightful people but that’s 24 people competing for the few spots where they were headed. If I were going to dip my toe back into winter camping I think I’d start somewhere closer to home such as the Catskills or Hudson Valley.

[Russ Bogardus]

Bob,

I suggest you read the Adirondack Mountain Club “Winter Mountaineering School Student Handbook” at https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/954d1e_de6867afcac94d7b8b1068583dc47f98.pdf

35F and raining during the day and -20F at night. If you live in Rochester NY contact the Rochester Winter Mountaineering Society as well. They do winter peak bagging in the winter and are very experienced.

Best Regards,
Russ

[Bruce Tolley]

@ Bob

I have travelled and slept comfortably for 2, 3 and 4 night snow camping trips below tree level in the Sierra Nevada with a sub 25 lb pack, not counting my snow shoes. Most of the weight savings come careful selection of clothing systems and the shelter system.  For short trips when there are no storms forecast, you do not need a 9 lb tent, but can save weight with careful campsite selection when sleeping under a MLD duomid or planning enough time to build a snow cave or snow trench.

You do need to plan carefully, for example bring enough fuel to melt snow if you do not have access to non frozen water.  You do need to know how to keep dry. If you want to build a snow shelter, practice and learn in a class before going out on your own.

Ryan Jordan wrote a seminal article on this topic for BPL in 2014 or 15. You can find it here: https://backpackinglight.com/lightweight-backpacking-in-the-winter/

As noted above, many local mountain clubs and chapters of the Sierra Club or the Mountaineers offer snow camping classes. Take one.  Caveats: With snow on the ground, your rate of travel can slow to 1 mph or less. Second, everything while snow camping takes two to three times longer than summer backpacking: Setting up your shelter, lighting your stove, tying a knot.

[Edward John M]

Jorgens gear is predicated on moderate temperatures tho, no colder than -20C. I would consider going that light dangerous in harsher conditions and / or above the tree line. More than a little dangerous. Note the passage where he admits he sleeps poorly in the back country, and adequate good sleep is essential for good health and well being.

I gained a lot from reading the article and dropped some of my gear because of it but not on my mattress or my sleeping bag, in fact it was this article that got me to order my very specialised synthetic overquilt from Nunatak

[Bruce Tolley]

@ Edward  who states in reference to the BPL article: “I would consider going that light dangerous in harsher conditions and / or above the tree line.”

I agree.

[Edward John M]

I don’t know what last seasons gear weighed but I know exactly what my skiing day pack weight was because I did the numbers thing trying to get it as light as I could. My day pack with survival stuff weighed 8 kilos with the water bottles empty. My day pack is 40 litres capacity. That weight includes a full Goretex bivvy sack / snow shovel, ski repair kit/ old 3/4 length ThermaRest as the packs back support/ DAS parka and pants plus a 1 kilo synthetic sleeping bag, storm suit and a billy/stove/fuel and food kit that masses 1250grams.

This is a lot of weight but past experience tells me that this is the absolute minimum I need to survive a nite out. Although gear for the death zone does weigh more than for real cold because I need to substitute synthetics for down. Down gear would be a full kilo  lighter and warmer

[Adam G]

I’ve struggled with keeping my base weight low in the winter. Minor problems that would make you uncomfortable in 3 season can spiral downward quickly to become life threatening in the winter. I average around 15 – 20 lbs. The weight just keeps on getting higher and higher. Two trips ago, I was camping where there was a light wind, and my pants with 3-layer rain pants just couldn’t keep me warm. I began shivering uncontrollably which is the first sign of hypothermia. I had to run into my sleeping bag to prevent me from freezing to death. Down pants got added after that. Another 8 oz…

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I can go for 5 days with a 35 pound load in freezing to zero F. weather.

But it could go to nearly 40 pounds if I bring an extra X-ing pole for my Moment DW or two X-ing poles for my Scarp 2, an extra closed cell pad, fresh meat like sausage, and some booze and a paperback novel for the long nights. And maybe my lamp oil collapsable mini lantern for in-tent cheer and heat.

[Stephen Bing]

What’s the lantern you use? Does it help with condensation as well?

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Stephen,

I have two Candoil lanterns that burn lantern oil. I like scented oil.

Unfortunately Candoil is out of business so I’d recommend a collapsable candle lantern using plumber’s stearene wax candles B/they don’t drip.

While candle or oil lanterns are burning yes, they do pretty much eliminate condensation. But for your safety you can’t let them burn while you sleep – at least I can’t.

[Stephen Bing]

Gotcha, thanks for the info!

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