We have the next cuben fiber and it's amazing!

[Gary Pikovsky]

Just received and tested the new Gossamer Gear Twinn Tarp. Two words:

OH. MY.

Pluses:
– 8oz for a two person tarp!! 8.8 with guyline. MLD’s Duo in cuben is 10oz)
– New NON-STRETCH, ultra packable sil/poly 7d fabric
– 60% less bulk than cuben
– Looks amaazingly photogenic in green
– Pitches perfectly

Cons:
– Fully waterproof, but maybe less than cuben (will be testing this fully)
– Not sure about misting on this fabric (will test)

Anyone try it yet?

The One is made from the same material and is also very, very interesting. I’m using the tarp with the new Sea-To-Summit duo bug net (4.8oz, fits perfect) and now have a super packable two-person fully enclosed shelter for less than 18oz. That’s with poles, stakes, guylines, stakes and everything. And did I mention, it’s uber-photogenic?! That’s just cray.

Gamechanger.

http://gossamergear.com/twinn-tarp.html

[Jim C]

Interesting. GG describes the tarp as using “custom made 7 denier nylon”, and the One as having “custom-formulated 7d high tenacity nylon blended sil/pu coating.”

So it sounds like it’s still nylon, but they’ve found a way to deal with the stretch. Have you tested it wet?

[Bob Moulder]

I like the idea but gee whiz that looks like a lot of stakes! :^o

[Ian]

Some math for those who were wondering

• Silnylon MLD Grace Duo / 13 ounces /  $170 / $13.08 per ounce
• .5 Cuben Fiber Grace Duo / 7.5 ounces / $290 / $38.66 per ounce
• .75 Cuben Fiber Grace Duo / 10 ounces $290 white / $305 green / $29/$30.50 per ounce
• GG Twinn Tarp / 8.52 ounces / $229 / $26.87 per ounce
• Grandma Gatewood’s Shower Curtain / 20 ounces / $4.44 / $.22 per ounce

[Jeff Jeff]

How many nights have you tested it? Have you had it in any wind storms?

[Gary Pikovsky]

@discopants
The GG tarp is actually 8oz, not 9. With guylines it’s 9oz, but MLD lists weight w.o guylines. Also, the ridgeline on the GG tarp is longer than MLD cuben, which goes a long way.

@twofortyjeff
Tested it for two nights, no wind storms yet here, but winds were about 15mph. Going to Mount Washington tomorrow to test it out in heavy conditions.

@jimothy
I’m hoping to test it wet in a few days in White Mountains. I think it’s going to be good though, fabric is solid and really makes a firm pitch. Only thing I wonder about is misting inside during rain. That’s one thing cuben still has over nylon.

[Gary Pikovsky]

@bobmny10562
Actually it’s less stakes than a normal tarp. The Twinn pitches so well that you can get away w/o middle stakes in winds less than 15 miles. The mesh tent is held down by twigs, rocks, shoes or stuff in backpack. There’s a bungie around the bottom perimeter that keeps everything taut and tidy. It’s a great, unlikely combo – Gossamer Gear + Sea to Summit. :)

[Justin Baker]

My question is durability. We know that cuben fiber has a ton of tear strength for it’s weight due to the dyneema fibers, but what about this fabric is making tear resistant enough for its super low weight?

[Gary Pikovsky]

@justin_baker It’s a good question. Maybe Richard Nisley can test this fabric for us. I’m not about to rip up mine.

For what it’s worth:
From a non-scientific test, I really stretched the fabric for a super taut pitch. Tarp stood for hours, nothing was affected.

We’ll see how it does long-term, but so far I really, really (really) like this new fabric.

[Ian]

Gary, I’m just posting their listed weights.  The same could be true for MLD.  I own the Grace solo, not duo, so I can’t say.  Edit: Changed it

[Nick Gatel]

Cons:
– Fully waterproof, but maybe less than cuben (will be testing this fully)

Either it is waterproof or it is not.

Reminds me of being almost pregnant ;-)

 

[James holden]

waterproof test is easy …. providing you have no water restrictions …

simply spray it with a hose for a decent amount of time … if theres no misting or leakage in the seams its fine

keep the sprinkler on for a few hours as well

a good spraying with a hose gives more than enough pressure …

;)

[Michael]

Gary … how does the factory seam taping look? Any durability concerns?

[Gary Pikovsky]

Factory seams are solid. No complaints.

[David Chenault]

It will be interesting to see how this fabric plays out.  Historically getting enough coating on so thin a fabric brings the tear strength down quite a lot, though for an educated user this may not be an issue.  Rumor has it that the 7D Big Agnes is using these days has a HH under 1000mm.

[Gary Pikovsky]

I was actually happy to see rain today. Got to test out the tarp! It rained a lot and quite heavy at times. Had it out in the rain for 6 hours.

Bone dry. No misting. The mesh tent was completely dry. Even at the bottom where mesh was touching the grass. I took the tarp off, flung it twice to get the drops off and hung it to dry inside. After 4-5 minutes the wet faced side was dry.

This fabric is solid gold. I might get one more just in case. Cuben is now the past. :)

 

[James L]

“Cuben is now the past. :)”

For you, maybe..

As for me,I would rather wait a few years to see the reports on this particular fabric from folks who test their gear in truly harsh ,real world conditions and are less prone to hyperbole..

I would also like to see valid lab tests comparing the shear strength of this 7D stuff to Cuben..I doubt it even is as strong as .34 Cuben ,let alone .51 or.74..

Since it is not a patented formula ,I would think 7D sil poly coated nylon would be easily and relatively cheaply available to makers like HMG .MLD, Zpacks etc..
If its truly better than Cuben,they will embrace it.

Time-probably about five years- will tell..In the meantime,

Godspeed, Gary..:)

[Brad Rogers]

I will be anxiously awaiting field reports to see how it holds up, and look forward to seeing it in more shelter types (tarptents and mids).  I am currently using cuben shelters (MLD Solomid XL) and cuben is a good shelter material but it isn’t perfect by any means.

Cuben Fiber pros

Strong (tear strength)

Waterproof (no misting)

Zero stretch

Cuben Fiber cons

Packability

Price

Poor abrasion resistance

Colors (minor)

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Interesting stuff. It’s hard to believe that a nylon based fabric this light can simultaneously be reasonably durable, waterproof and non-stretch. Any of those individually would be impressive for a 7D, <1oz nylon cloth.

Where does the non-stretch claim come from? I don’t see it on GG’s website. Is that your claim? My experience is that stretch is harder to notice when a shelter is new, as the fabric is more resistant to absorbing water then it is further down the line.

I hope this fabric works out. It’ll be neat to follow as people get more time with it.

[Russ W]

Nice looking tarp. The GG website claims 1,200 MM for “The One”, so I guess it’s the same material?  I sure hope this works out because it should put some pressure on the cuben manufacturer.  Sometimes I feel that lightweight or ultralight backpacking is like chasing the ether. It just never ends!

[Gary Pikovsky]

Here’s something interesting:
In the stuff sack is the GG tarp AND a 2-person mesh tent from Sea to Summit. The stuff sack is normally meant for the SUL 550ml cook kit I use…

Lots to be tested going forward. No stretch “claim” comes from me pitching the tent and leaving it for 6 hours. I’m not going to say it has zero stretch, but the pitch remained the same.

@jimmerul Nice post. Would be interesting to compare shear on this material. Maybe someone else is willing to do it? Richard Nisley?

[Ian]

“As for me,I would rather wait a few years to see the reports on this particular fabric from folks who test their gear in truly harsh ,real world conditions and are less prone to hyperbole..”

Uh… yeah.  Seems like we’ve been down this road before where long term reviews don’t live up to the initial hype.

“The sawyer mini just came out and it’s absolutely perfect!  Everyone stop designing now ’cause it don’t get any better…. well the flow rate isn’t as great as I’d like… but heck… it’s UL so whatevs… dang this thing gets clogged up with a quickness and back flushing doesn’t seem to get it back to where it was… F this thing (Sawyer mini drops in garbage can) (REI door opens) ‘One sawyer squeeze please'”

[Gary Pikovsky]

I understand the initial doubts, but why be negative that quick already? It’s true, these are initial impressions, but I’m actually enjoying a nice night in the tarp as we speak. We’ll see about long-term durability and waterproofing, of course, but there’s nothing wrong with progress.

[Ian]

Progress is great and I hope the fabric works out, it sounds fantastic.  But I think sending Cuben Fiber to its grave next to spinnaker is a bit premature until this fabric has been put through its paces.

[Bob Moulder]

I understand the initial doubts, but why be negative that quick already?

And why be so positive after very little testing and actual field usage?

Time and extensive usage will tell, but all in all I’m glad there are early adopters who are willing to buy and test stuff like this.

I agree that it’s way, way too early to pronounce the demise of Cuben. :^)

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