Understanding different types of winter shelters

[Giulia P]

So this post would like to be not about a specific model or for a specific recommendation, but about understanding the rationales behind different 4-season tent designs, and when should someone go for one rather than the other. For me, this comes out of both sheer curiosity and the need to go for the lightest shelter possible without going stupid light and getting myself in trouble. (I say need because I have a problem with one of my hip bones that makes it almost impossible for me to carry heavier loads.)

So I think I’ve identified five types of 4-season shelters:

– Single-wall “alpine” tents
Examples: Black Diamond Firstlight/Eldorado, MSR Advance Pro, etc.
These puzzle me quite a bit. Do they really hold up well in winds? Isn’t single wall terrible for condensation, especially in winter? The Firstlight is not even waterproof?
I wonder if they’re supposed to be used for “short” mountaineering trips where the main activity is climbing, or if you are sure it’s going to be so cold you’ll get snow and never rain, but are not really suited for backpacking… Or am I missing something?

– Double-wall “alpine” tents
Examples: Terra Nova Southern Cross, MSR Access 2
I guess these are a step up from the category above but probably still not good enough for strong winds?

– Tunnel tents
Example: Hilleberg Nallo/Nammatj, Terra Nova Blizzard, etc.
If the wind direction changes during the night, do they still perform well if hit by the side? Are they really ok for snow loads?

– Freestanding dome tents
Examples: Hilleberg Soulo/Staiva, The North Face 25, (Tarptent Scarp?)
No questions about their performance here, they’re definitely the most bombproof designs. Just wondering under which conditions to they actually become necessary?

– Pyramid tarps
Examples: Black Diamond Megalight, Nigor Wickiup 3/Golite Shangri-La’s/MyTrailCo Pyramid, MSR Twin Sisters
Are these shelters actually sufficient, provided the addition of a (at least part-) solid inner? I’ve seen photos of the Megalight being used in polar regions and recommended by NOLS, and mids set up in Antarctica (though with tougher fabrics and plenty guylines), so I wonder if these are still sufficient provided they have enough guyout points to glue them to the ground? I’m a bit skeptical about the windproofness of the Megalight, with those large triangular sides, but the other ones strike me as having sufficient attachment points that are not mid-panel but sewed in, which makes me think they might be strong enough.

I realize there’s considerations on fabric strength and poles diameter and material, but I’m mostly curious about understanding the different designs. Mic to you, thanks for helping!

[rmeurant]

Criteria in my opinion might include specific purpose, number of users, likely weather conditions, structural strength when erected (NF25 and geodesics in general), ease and speed of pitching (Bibler I-tent & variations), provided space-to-weight ratio and usability of that space, provision or not of vestibule and relative weather protection of vestibule, also ability to anchor in specific environments (which might mean the pyramid was less suitable).

[Franco Darioli]

Just a few points.

Those alpine tents are meant to fit in a small place (small footprint) and in a way are  just a larger version of a bivvy bag, so no they are not aimed at backpackers , but some hikers like them anyway.

The Double Rainbow is not an alpine shelter nor double wall (it is a tarp tent having the mesh doors and floor attached directly to the fly) . You will see photos of it in the snow and under snow but it isn’t designed with that in mind.

The Tarptent Scarp 2 with the external poles can be used on snow up to a foot or so but again it isn’t primarily an alpine tent but a convertible 3 to 4 season tent (the X poles for the 4 season bit).

BTW, a common mistake beginners make is to get an expedition tent to do 3 season trails thinking stronger/heavier equals better. It does in a certain environment but for general use you just have a heavier tent that will probably not work well at all in warm to hot weather.

 

[Roger Caffin]

– Single-wall “alpine” tents
These puzzle me quite a bit. Do they really hold up well in winds? Isn’t single wall terrible for condensation, especially in winter? The Firstlight is not even waterproof?
You got it. Not good in high wind, plus condensation, etc.
Basically, they are cheap to make.

– Double-wall “alpine” tents
Still not good in high winds or rain.

– Tunnel tents
If the wind direction changes during the night, do they still perform well if hit by the side? Are they really ok for snow loads?
I am notoriously biased, but read https://backpackinglight.com/when_things_go_wrong/ for a view.
If properly designed they handle side winds OK. ‘Properly’ means only about 1 m between poles, and the poles are short. Tents with 2 m between poles will fail in wind and under snow. Some of the Hilleberg tents are fine, others are not suited to wind.
Tunnels are fine with snow loading provided you use internal storm guys over night – then they are almost immune.
Sue & I live in ours in the mountains in the winter, in snow.

– Freestanding dome tents
Do not confuse simple 2-pole domes with geodesic domes. It the tent has only 2 long poles it will fail. These are often just ‘pop-ups’.
Real geodesic tents may have 5 or 6 poles, and they are rugged. They are best used for groups of 4+ people, and can be heavy. Split the weight between 4 or 5 and they are not so bad.

– Pyramid tarps
Light tarps will fail in wind and snow: the fabric spans are too big. The sides tend to flatten down under wind.
Arctic pyramids survive OK, but they may have 4 poles (at the corners) of 60 mm tubing and guy ropes of 6 mm mountaineering cord. They travel folded up on the sled. Heavy? Oh yes!

Cheers

[Brad Rogers]

My opinion:

Single Wall Alpine Tents, such as the Black Diamond Firstlight are not made for backpacking. They are made for climbing and mountaineering, where users need a light tent that is quick to set up and takes up a very small footprint. They are not well suited for temps above freezing as they don’t handle rain well. I would not recommend one for backpacking unless you had very specific needs.

Double Wall Alpine Tents such as the MSR Access and Terra Nova Southern Cross are 4 season tents designed for ski touring or other winter trips where you expect heavy-ish snow. As a general rule the more poles (and the thicker the poles) the stronger (and heavier) the tent. The Double Rainbow does not fall in this category.

Tunnel Tents can handle serious wind if properly positioned and guyed out (of course all tents should by properly guyed out). They take up lots of room as they are usually very long. I could see a tunnel tent being a good option for backpacking somewhere like Iceland, where strong winds are prevalent and there is usually plenty of room to place a shelter. I would put the Tarptent Scarp in the Tunnel Tent catagory. There is a video on Youtube of the Hilleburg Atko (very similar design to the Tarptent Scarp 1) in 80mph winds (yes he had a wind meter in the video. It wasn’t pretty, and I doubt you’d sleep much, but it held, which is pretty impressive considering it is a reasonably light tent. 99.99% of us would never need a shelter to hold up to 80 mph winds.

Geodesic Domes are pretty bomb proof due to lots of intersecting large diameter poles. Of course they are heavy. They can handle wind and snow well, but due to size and weight are usually for larger parties and expeditions. They are not something that many backpackers would need or want on a trip.

Pyramid Tarps can handle wind and snow quite well for the weight, and are the best option, in my opinion, for most BPLers. They aren’t bomb proof however and the larger they are and less guyouts they have the weaker they are. A Trailstar, which isn’t a true pyramid, handles wind as well as tents much heavier, but it’s flatter, so it doesn’t handle snow well.

It really depends on your needs on what tent is best for you.

[rmeurant]

Good summary from Brad. However regarding single wall tents, these are quite popular in Japan, using breathable goretex-type fabrics. Similar to the I-tent in layout, just 2 crossing poles to form a rectangular dome, or sometimes with a short 3rd pole cross the apex. I consider these pretty suited to solo backpacking, though not for the taller person, I used one end entry one a lot, and in some very wet and sometimes rather windy conditions. Sometimes an optional fly can be used for bad conditions, also to give a small vestibule. Side entry configuration is more ergonomic, supposedly weaker, but there are some nice models. There are some fine Japanese tents, well detailed, good material, very serviceable; it’s rather a shame they have not had better exposure on BPL. The advantages of compact single-skin tents are that it is easier to find a suitable site to pitch, quick to pitch, and they are likely to be lighter to carry (and less volume in the pack), though the Japanese ones don’t seem to reach the really light status – though please check out the Locus Djedi DCF-eVent Dome, http://locusgear.com/items/djedi-dcf-event-dome/?lang=en
A good compromise might be the (2 skin) Big Sky Chinook 1P or 1Plus, where the 3rd (full) cross pole can be not used for easier trips and milder conditions.

[Paul McLaughlin]

My take – and yes, I have used examples of all of these in the snow. Let’s look at what sort of conditions each type is best suited for – using your type descriptions for simplicity.

– Single-wall “alpine” tents

Mountaineering. When you need the absolute smallest footprint to fit on ledges you find or ledges you hack out of snow and ice, and will have limited ability to place guylines. And as the absolute simplest secure shelter you can have for severe weather – though generally cramped because they are designed to be just big enough so they will fit on the smallest possible ledge. Where would I use one? if I were on a long ski tour trying to cover maximum distance in minimum time, one of these might be worth it for the quick setup time

– Double-wall “alpine” tents
I have some issues with your delineation of the category; however, for the most part I think you mean double-wall, not tunnel, not geodesic. Useful for below timberline winter use, with moderate snowloads and moderate winds. Due to their double-wall nature, better for mid-winter use than nearly any single-wall shelter (with the possible exception of the larger BIbler tents with their proprietary Todd-tex fabric with the fuzzy inner).

– Tunnel tents

Great for really rough weather, and pound for pound, the most robust – IF well designed, and IF securely guyed out. They excel in open areas where you have plenty of room for lots of guylines and firm snow for solid anchorage – thus, polar expedition favorites, as there is plenty of room on an icecap and the snow is mostly pretty firm. Not a favorite with mountaineers in general, other than basecamp type situations, as getting all those guylines set up can be problematic on the side of a mountain, due to both terrain issues and/or stake penetration issues.

– Freestanding dome tents
Above timberline – whether due to high altitude or high latitude. For big snow loads and big winds. Dome tents are not always geodesic, and non-geodesic domes have less stability; but the geodesics are the strongest designs, and if properly designed can do the job with fewer guylines than a tunnel design would require. But they will be heavier than the tunnel, because they have more poles. Probably most popular for base camps and intermediate camps on really big mountains, where again the guyline factor versus a tunnel can be advantageous

– Pyramid tarps

Again your category delineation is questionable, as you seem to lump pyramid tarps in with pyramid tents and the two have only one similarity – that of shape. Pyramid tarps, and their brethren in twin peaked varieties and tent flies use without the inner, are good for spring snow shelters. In mid-winter they tend to be condensation nightmares and difficult to pitch so that they will shed snow – even when tight the shape is such that snow slides to the bottom and starts to pile up on the lowest angled portions of the fabric, weighing that down. I’ve seen them pitched on tp of a wall of snow blocks to avid this (snow can slide off the fabric and pile up against the snow blocks instead), adn you get a bonus in extra headroom, but it’s a lot of work to do. If pitched really taut, they shed wind well – but they are rarely pitched really taut because it is not easy to do and requires very solid stake placements. Their advantage is light weight and the floorless aspect is actually pretty nice in various ways. I have used floorless pyramdis and psuedo-pyramids for a lot of spring ski trips, where big snowfalls are not the norm but high winds are not uncommon, and they are good for that. Pyramid tents cover a wide range from flappy nightmares to polar pyramids, which have poles on all the ridgelines rather than a center pole, and are built to be very robust. Not something you want to carry anywhere, but on the sledge behind your snowmobile or on your dogsled they provide reliable shelter in the worst weather in the world.

 

If you tell us where and when you would be using the shelter, we can provide precise recommendations for you.

[Giulia P]

Thanks everyone for the great responses so far, it’s helping me understand quite a bit.

Franco, thanks for pointing out the TT Rainbow is not DW, for some reason I had registered it as such but it’s a single wall – I’ll try and edit the first post to fix this.

Paul, I’m not sure I follow your distinction between pyramid tents and tarps. I agree I bulked together square mids (MLD mids, BD Megalight), hexagonal mids (Golite Shangri-La 3/MyTrail Co Pyramid 3), and double-peak mids (MSR Twin Sisters, BD Betalight), which is probably confusing, but not sure what your distinction is. I probably should have made it clearer I’d use a part-solid inner tent with any of them in winter.

Also, isn’t snow piling up on the sides of a tarp a problem of tents too? Unless they have a nearly vertical door (like, say, the Nammatj GT), I’d imagine this happens with all shelters.
EDIT: I see what you mean. Being supported by a central pole only, the piled snow pushes the walls inward. Maybe a large enough mid or a hexagonal one with smaller side walls would temper this problem?

I wanted to make this post to have a general understanding, but in the near future I’m looking at backpacking in the UK, mostly Scotland – the in the future I hope for Iceland, Scandinavia, etc. So for at least Scotland and Iceland, where vast open valleys are a lot more common than forests, wind is a bigger problem than snow, so should probably go for a tunnel design or something similar. I’ve heard good things about the TT Scarp too.

But I’m still tempted by designs like a hexagonal mid or the MSR twin sisters: compared to square mids, the first has smaller panels that should catch less wind and more guyout points (6 at the bottom and 6 halfway up, I believe) which are all sewed into the edges instead of mid-panel like in square mids. If a pile of snow falls into the tent when I open the door, that shouldn’t be an issue since I have enough room inside to keep my stuff away from it. This video makes a decent sales pitch for it. The MSR twin sisters is lower (so catches less wind?) and has guyout points on the side panels which make it look pretty strong, and has the snowskirt, if it’s an actually useful feature. I’m a bit worried about ventilation inside it though.

[Roger Caffin]

Unless they have a nearly vertical door (like, say, the Nammatj GT), I’d imagine this happens with all shelters.
Nearly vertical doors AND WALLS.

With my tunnels, if there is snow on the door in the morning, I give it a wack from the inside so it falls off outside. Never had it fall inside.

Cheers

[James Marco]

I have had up to 6″ of icy snow build up on my tunnel (old Exped Sirius.) I agree with Roger, they shed easily and build up decently against any sidewall, though side wind stability is iffy. You need stakes on both sides due to aerodynamics. With enough load, poles tend to snap rather than distort, but this only happens at extreme loads (worst I had it was around 65mph and it was fine.) Placed into the wind, they are really solid performers. They tend to be lower than other types and will hold heat better. Again, this is a fall winter and spring type of tent and can get hot much above 50F(10C.) But that could just be the Sirius model.

[Roger Caffin]

With enough load, poles tend to snap rather than distort, but this only happens at extreme loads
This is true, but easily dealt with by the use of Internal Storm Guys.

The blue line is light string (I use mason’s line for this) and it goes from guy rope attachment to guy rope attachment. With these in place (and a little tight) the poles can not depress downwards. Snow load can be high without a problem.
How do I know? Ah well …

You can use Spectra or Dyneema for the storm guy if you want, but it is MUCH easier to make an sliding hitch in nylon masons (bricklayers) line. Nylon is quite strong enough.
If you make the storm guy of fixed length you might need to adjust the outside guy lines to get the internal storm guy right. Quite possible.
I tie it at one side and use a small Ti wire hook at the other, free, end. I hook it up before I lie down after dinner and remove it in the morning. Not really in the way. If you need to go for a walk in the middle of the night, you might need a small headlight to deal with the guy. DO replace it when you return!

Cheers

[Paul McLaughlin]

My pyramidal distinction is between tent and tarps. Tarps being single wall, floorless; tents having floors, and mostly being double wall (I don’t think I’ve seen a single wall, floored pyramid). And in a ore detailed sense, pyramidal tents are most often substantially more robust that pyramid tarps, with the key difference being that they often have tripod or four-pod poles instead of s single vertical center pole (or a couple vertical center-ish poles as with the twin sisters/betamid sort). Square, hex, or whatever floor shape does not enter into my distinction.

As to snow piling up – see my sketch below.

With the concave slopes endemic to center pole designs, the least slope is at the bottom, so snow tends to stop sliding before it gets off the fabric. Then more snow piles up behind that – and more – and you can see where this is headed. Teh weight of all that snow pushes the tent wall down. With the more vertical walls of a dome or tunnel – or nearly anthing but a center pole supported design – the slow rests on teh surround ground or snow, and only leans against the tent wall. A few shoves from the inside is usually all it takes to restore the lost volume.

To return to the twin sisters. I have an MSR twin peaks – ancestor of the twin sisters. Have used it on a number of ski trips – spring ski trips. Ventilation – nearly non-existent. Condensation? You betcha. Interior volume – not so great. And if you got some sort of inner for it, you’d have even less room inside. I mostly dug down about 8 to 10″ and set i it up over the excavated area to get added headroom. But that ends up being a lot of work, so I am looking for something else. It is excellent in the wind, if set up well and with solid stake placements – which are easy in spring snow, not so easy in midwinter fluff.

Basically I would not use a pyramid (using my definition) of real winter. Spring snow camping where the days are warm and sunny but you happen to be camping on snow , sure. But winter where the storm may be days long and the snow drifts everywhere and the wind may howl – no thanks, I’d take a real tent, with enough pole structure to do the job well. If you’ve ever been in a real blizzard you will know that the last thing you are thinking about is how you saved a pound or two on your shelter weight by bringing something of doubtful security.

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